LOST JEEPS :: View topic - how to buy gas

Up to $3.50 a gallon? Tell me where you can get it that cheap. Consumer Reports debunks the temperature thing in the latest issue. Not enough variation on a daily basis to make any real difference.

I should have mentioned that seasonally the change is significant. So buy gas in the winter.

I was listening to an auto expert on the radio and he said to buy gas when it is warmer (afternoon).

People really need to verify anything they plan to post that is coming from another source.

Tokyojoe wrote:

I was listening to an auto expert on the radio and he said to buy gas when it is warmer (afternoon).

People really need to verify anything they plan to post that is coming from another source.

That's bull. The original poster was correct. The colder anything is (except water, below 4 degrees celsius, and maybe a few other things that expand when they freeze) the denser it will be, if pressure remains the same. Temperature and volume (and therefore density) are directly related. An increase in temperature will cause a substance to expand, different substances exand at differnt rates depending on the coefficient of expansion.

That's how non-digiatal and non-liquid filled thermometers work. The dial is connected to a bi-metal strip (two layers of different metals, one on top of the other). The metals have different rates of expansion so the strip will curve, at a known rate, and can be calibrated to display the correct temperature.

Plus gasoline will be more volatile when temperatures are warmer. This is based on the ideal gas law PV=nRT.

where

P is the absolute pressure of the gas,
V is the volume of the gas,
n is the number of moles of gas,
R is the universal gas constant,
T is the absolute temperature (in Kelvin).

Notice how pressure and volume are on the same side of the equation. They are inversely related. Don't believe me? Sqeeze a balloon and see if it get smaller. Temperature is on the opposite side of the equation, meaning if you increase pressure and/or volume, the temperature must increase to keep the equation balanced.

As stated in the original post, the best time to buy gas is when the ground is coldest. That time is just before dawn, when the sun comes up and starts warming the ground.

while this may be true why is it when i fuel up my truck "dump" the fuel comming from the pump is very warm

Something else to consider. Gasoline tanks are usually buried underground. The temperature stays a constant 55ish degrees F.

Yeah I thought about that, but doesn't it only apply below 3-4 feet? Then I had the thought that the tanks would be close to the surface of the ground. And if there was a lot of air space in the that would be more affected by the sun shining down on black asphalt.

My be an interesting reasearch project. I'll talk with my old department head and see what he thinks. There's a gas station between campus and the bar we walk to from class. They've be hesitant in the past to let us take air/water samples. They think we're going to fine them for pollution or something.

A temperature probe would be easy to use in a tank. Measure it every hour, go to the bar, rinse, lather, repeat.

Author:	john jr [ Mon May 19, 2008 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:	how to buy gas
FYI---- I don't know what you guys are paying for gasoline.... but here in California we are also paying higher, up to $3.50 per gallon. But my line of work is in petroleum for about 31 years now, so here are some tricks to get more of your money's worth for every gallon. Here at the Kinder Morgan Pipeline where I work in San Jose, CA we deliver about 4 million gallons in a 24-hour period thru the pipeline. One day is diesel the next day is jet fuel, and gasoline, regular and premium grades. We have 34-storage tanks here with a total capacity of 16,800,000 gallons. Only buy or fill up your car or truck in the early morning when the ground temperature is still cold. Remember that all service stations have their storage tanks buried below ground. The colder the ground the more dense the gasoline, when it gets warmer gasoline expands, so buying in the afternoon or in the evening....your gallon is not exactly a gallon. In the petroleum business, the specific gravity and the temperature of the gasoline, diesel and jet fuel, ethanol and other petroleum products plays an important role. A 1-degree rise in temperature is a big deal for this business. But the service stations do not have temperature compensation at the pumps. When you're filling up do not squeeze the trigger of the nozzle to a fast mode. If you look you will see that the trigger has three (3) stages: low, middle, and high. In slow mode you should be pumping on low speed, thereby minimizing the vapors that are created while you are pumping. All hoses at the pump have a vapor return. If you are pumping on the fast rate, some other liquid that goes to your tank becomes vapor. Those vapors are being sucked up and back into the underground storage tank so you're getting less worth for your money. One of the most important tips is to fill up when your gas tank is HALF FULL or HALF EMPTY. The reason for this is, the more gas you have in your tank the less air occupying its empty space. Gasoline evaporates faster than you can imagine. Gasoline storage tanks have an internal floating roof. This roof serves as zero clearance between the gas and the atmosphere, so it minimizes the evaporation. Unlike service stations, here where I work, every truck that we load is temperature compensated so that every gallon is actually the exact amount. Another reminder, if there is a gasoline truck pumping into the storage tanks when you stop to buy gas, DO NOT fill up--most likely the gasoline is being stirred up as the gas is being delivered, and you might pick up some of the dirt that normally settles on the bottom. Hope this will help you get the most value for your money. DO SHARE THESE TIPS WITH OTHERS! WHERE TO BUY USA GAS, THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO KNOW. READ ON Gas rationing in the 80's worked even though we grumbled about it. It might even be good for us! The Saudis are boycotting American goods. We should return the favor. An interesting thought is to boycott their GAS. Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis. Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up the tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my family, and my friends. I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies are the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle Eastern oil. These companies import Middle Eastern oil: Shell........................... 205,742,000 barrels Chevron/Texaco......... 144,332,000 barrels Exxon /Mobil............... 130,082,000 barrels Marathon/Speedway... 117,740,000 barrels Amoco............................62,231,000 barrels Citgo gas is from South America, from a Dictator who hates Americans. If you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION! (oil is now $90 - $100 a barrel) Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil: Sunoco.................0 barrels Conoco..................0 barrels Sinclair.................0 barrels BP/Phillips............0 barrels Hess.......................0 barrels ARCO....................0 barrels If you go to Sunoco.com, you will get a list of the station locations near you. All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and each is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are importing. But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions of gas buyers. It's really simple to do.. Now, don't wimp out at this point.... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!! I'm sending this note to about thirty people. If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300) ... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers!!!!!!! If those three million get e xcited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it.....THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!! Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. How long would all that take?

Author:	JJsTJ [ Mon May 19, 2008 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:
FWIW, http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/household/gastips.asp

Author:	jeepskate [ Mon May 19, 2008 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:
Up to $3.50 a gallon? Tell me where you can get it that cheap. Consumer Reports debunks the temperature thing in the latest issue. Not enough variation on a daily basis to make any real difference.

Author:	ups4 [ Mon May 19, 2008 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:
I've been getting this same stupid email for over a year now. Sometimes from people who already sent it to me 3 months ago. It's amazing to me how people just fire off a "forward" to everybody in their address book. And even more irritating...they leave the previous 250 forwarded addresses in the body of the email . Of course, if you recieve something in an email, it MUST be factual, right? Paul

Author:	jeepskate [ Mon May 19, 2008 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:
jeepskate wrote: Up to $3.50 a gallon? Tell me where you can get it that cheap. Consumer Reports debunks the temperature thing in the latest issue. Not enough variation on a daily basis to make any real difference. I should have mentioned that seasonally the change is significant. So buy gas in the winter.

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Author:	Guest [ Mon May 19, 2008 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:
Yes, buy all your gas in the winter. That way you'll beat those no good crooks! Where am I gonna put all that gas though?

Author:	ups4 [ Mon May 19, 2008 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:
jeepskate wrote: I should have mentioned that seasonally the change is significant. So buy gas in the winter. We HAVE no winter in South Florida....what am I to do? Paul

Author:	Tokyojoe [ Tue May 20, 2008 1:08 am ]
Post subject:
I was listening to an auto expert on the radio and he said to buy gas when it is warmer (afternoon). People really need to verify anything they plan to post that is coming from another source.

Author:	john jr [ Tue May 20, 2008 6:37 am ]
Post subject:
Tokyojoe wrote: I was listening to an auto expert on the radio and he said to buy gas when it is warmer (afternoon). People really need to verify anything they plan to post that is coming from another source. I just thought it was an interesting read I am sorry we can not all be perfect like you

Author:	VTNomad [ Tue May 20, 2008 8:51 am ]
Post subject:
Tokyojoe wrote: I was listening to an auto expert on the radio and he said to buy gas when it is warmer (afternoon). People really need to verify anything they plan to post that is coming from another source. That's bull. The original poster was correct. The colder anything is (except water, below 4 degrees celsius, and maybe a few other things that expand when they freeze) the denser it will be, if pressure remains the same. Temperature and volume (and therefore density) are directly related. An increase in temperature will cause a substance to expand, different substances exand at differnt rates depending on the coefficient of expansion. That's how non-digiatal and non-liquid filled thermometers work. The dial is connected to a bi-metal strip (two layers of different metals, one on top of the other). The metals have different rates of expansion so the strip will curve, at a known rate, and can be calibrated to display the correct temperature. Plus gasoline will be more volatile when temperatures are warmer. This is based on the ideal gas law PV=nRT. where P is the absolute pressure of the gas, V is the volume of the gas, n is the number of moles of gas, R is the universal gas constant, T is the absolute temperature (in Kelvin). Notice how pressure and volume are on the same side of the equation. They are inversely related. Don't believe me? Sqeeze a balloon and see if it get smaller. Temperature is on the opposite side of the equation, meaning if you increase pressure and/or volume, the temperature must increase to keep the equation balanced. As stated in the original post, the best time to buy gas is when the ground is coldest. That time is just before dawn, when the sun comes up and starts warming the ground.

Author:	meh_kick [ Tue May 20, 2008 9:12 am ]
Post subject:
VTNomad wrote: Tokyojoe wrote: I was listening to an auto expert on the radio and he said to buy gas when it is warmer (afternoon). People really need to verify anything they plan to post that is coming from another source. That's bull. The original poster was correct. The colder anything is (except water, below 4 degrees celsius, and maybe a few other things that expand when they freeze) the denser it will be, if pressure remains the same. Temperature and volume (and therefore density) are directly related. An increase in temperature will cause a substance to expand, different substances exand at differnt rates depending on the coefficient of expansion. That's how non-digiatal and non-liquid filled thermometers work. The dial is connected to a bi-metal strip (two layers of different metals, one on top of the other). The metals have different rates of expansion so the strip will curve, at a known rate, and can be calibrated to display the correct temperature. Plus gasoline will be more volatile when temperatures are warmer. This is based on the ideal gas law PV=nRT. where P is the absolute pressure of the gas, V is the volume of the gas, n is the number of moles of gas, R is the universal gas constant, T is the absolute temperature (in Kelvin). Notice how pressure and volume are on the same side of the equation. They are inversely related. Don't believe me? Sqeeze a balloon and see if it get smaller. Temperature is on the opposite side of the equation, meaning if you increase pressure and/or volume, the temperature must increase to keep the equation balanced. As stated in the original post, the best time to buy gas is when the ground is coldest. That time is just before dawn, when the sun comes up and starts warming the ground. Something else to consider. Gasoline tanks are usually buried underground. The temperature stays a constant 55ish degrees F.

Author:	john jr [ Tue May 20, 2008 9:28 am ]
Post subject:
while this may be true why is it when i fuel up my truck "dump" the fuel comming from the pump is very warm

Author:	WoodysKJ [ Tue May 20, 2008 10:04 am ]
Post subject:
john jr wrote: while this may be true why is it when i fuel up my truck "dump" the fuel comming from the pump is very warm Yes but how much does it cool as you pump it from the large underground tank throught the underground hoses to the pump and in your tank. Anybody who was ever in college had the pleasure of learning how a beer cold plate works. the beer can be warm, but as it passes through the coils (i.e. the underground pipes) it cools. so running the gas at the low speed on the nozel WILL allow the fuel to cool more as it goes from point A to point B. So if it does become more dense as it cools, as the laws of physics dictate, then it doesn't matter what the storage tank temp is. IF the gas flows through underground pipes and in theory those pipes are deep enogh to benefit from the constant ground temp, where ever you are, then IN THEORY the gas will be cooled as you pump it. NOW if the pipes are close to the surfface, then they will be effected by the sun's heating of the ground and the pavement above so pumping in the cooler morning MIGHT make some sense or at least some cents. I hav a head ache.

Author:	dirtykj [ Tue May 20, 2008 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:
I'm still waiting for the version that takes the phases of the moon and the centrifugal effect of the Earth's rotation into account.

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Author:	VTNomad [ Tue May 20, 2008 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:
Something else to consider. Gasoline tanks are usually buried underground. The temperature stays a constant 55ish degrees F. Yeah I thought about that, but doesn't it only apply below 3-4 feet? Then I had the thought that the tanks would be close to the surface of the ground. And if there was a lot of air space in the that would be more affected by the sun shining down on black asphalt. My be an interesting reasearch project. I'll talk with my old department head and see what he thinks. There's a gas station between campus and the bar we walk to from class. They've be hesitant in the past to let us take air/water samples. They think we're going to fine them for pollution or something. A temperature probe would be easy to use in a tank. Measure it every hour, go to the bar, rinse, lather, repeat.

Author:	WoodysKJ [ Tue May 20, 2008 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:
VTNomad wrote: Something else to consider. Gasoline tanks are usually buried underground. The temperature stays a constant 55ish degrees F. Yeah I thought about that, but doesn't it only apply below 3-4 feet? Then I had the thought that the tanks would be close to the surface of the ground. And if there was a lot of air space in the that would be more affected by the sun shining down on black asphalt. My be an interesting reasearch project. I'll talk with my old department head and see what he thinks. There's a gas station between campus and the bar we walk to from class. They've be hesitant in the past to let us take air/water samples. They think we're going to fine them for pollution or something. A temperature probe would be easy to use in a tank. Measure it every hour, go to the bar, rinse, lather, repeat. Jez, You could maybe get a freaking federal grant to study it. share the wealth.