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help me make cross bars for a kayak
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33771		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  scoobysnax [ Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  help me make cross bars for a kayak
I need to make my own cross bars for the roof and I know other people here have done it...

I just bought a used tandem Kayak (Dagger Drift tandem) and on order I have a set of foam blocks that you place directly on the roof and the kayak sits on top. (here's the link if you want it, it was $41.94 to my door.)
http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___58602

However, I'm realizing that my wife can't really lift up the 68 lb kayak over her head to get it up on the top of the jeep. So I'm trying to come up with solutions and right now it's looks like I'm going to have to get the thing on top without scratching the Jeep by myself. It's 15' 6" long so it hangs about a foot past the front bumper and I think 2 feet past the rear bumper. I'll need to get one end up on the top and then lift/push/slid the rest of it so it's centered. The foam blocks only work if it's placed on top of them, if you slide it they will move too.

I don't have the money to buy a full cross bar set up with attachments. I was thinking I could go the cheep route and use either 2x4's and some U-bolts to the factory rails or the same thing with a steel bar. I think the 2x4's would be easier b/c I could then cut a rounded wedge molded to the bottom sides of the kayak and just drill that into the 2x4's to keep the kayak snug.

Sure it's not a perfect set up. I was thinking of even using a router to make a little rounded aero edge and glue/screw it to the front lip of the 2x4 and a longer aero trailing edge to the rear of the 2x4 to cut down on the wind drag and wind noise.

If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions for my project I'm all ears, if anyone has done this or done something similar please let me know. If you already did a write up about this please send me the link. I did a search and I got back over 100+ posts.

Thanks!
Author:  dirtykj [ Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Anyway you look at it, it's still difficult to lift that boat up there on the roof, even more so when you lift your Liberty.

I'd build the cross bar out of tube steel. Get yourself an angle grinder and cutting wheel :)

There are some solutions like the Thule Outrigger II or Yakima's equivalent. They are steel rods that slide inside the main crossbar tubes so you can rest half of the boat on it while you lift the other end. This way you have to lift approximately half the weight of the boat.

You might want to build this into your system. Lifting 60 - 80 pounds of boat above 70 inches or so by yourself gets old real fast.

Take a look at various demo videos on Youtube to see which style of carriers work best for you, THEN you can make the bars that facilitate the style of loading you want (side loading vs rear loading).

Hull Raiser demo

Thule Outrigger II demo

I have the J-style carrier on my lifted KJ, sitting on top of a roof rack and the first words out of the guys that helped me carry the yak to my KJ were "oh, that's a little high" :) It's near impossible to load / unload by myself. The carriers now sit on my wife's KJ where it's more manageable, but still needs two people to load / unload so I'm going to have to do something about it, either change to keel-down style and load from the rear, maybe use two outriggers and flip the boat onto the carrier, or buy me a hullavator, but that costs a lot of money ...
Author:  bugnout [ Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quick and easy, buy a piece of electrical unistrut cut in half and the associated brackets cost about $30 bucks and bolts together. You can use carriage bolts through the foam and unistrut for the cradle. position the cradle in the middle and there should still be some room on either side to set the kayak while your getting ready to position it in the cradle. Put the bow up then the stern get up on the back bumper and position it.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=20952&highlight=strut

Image

For a bit more work, I built the crossbars in the thread below, with XC204's help. Added pipe hanger brackets to bolt down my roof basket. I am planning to make a removable unistrut kayak cradle as I described. pop of the basket, pop on the kayak cradle. I also have a 16 foot aluminum boat I throw up there, but it definitely takes 2 people to get it on top. I set it next to the KJ on its side and slide it up. Its wide enough that its only a lift of about a foot until I can get on the side and slide it the rest of the way.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=32824
Author:  dirtykj [ Tue Jul 01, 2008 12:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've got a 15 footer and the J mount has this gate that I have to lift the boat up and over that. There's just no good place to stand and still give me the lift I need. Standing on the rear tires doesn't get me in good enough position to handle the boat by myself, neither is loading it from the rear since once the boat is on one carrier it's impossible to slide (it's got rubber base that's meant to prevent the boat from sliding in the first place :P). My only choice now is to carry two small step stools to help with the load / unload.

I'm 5'9" ... sucks to be short :)
Author:  VTNomad [ Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Kayaks
I used to work in a kayak shop, but I wasn't a yaker myself. When we fabbed up a rack for a customer that had problems lifting it to the roof, we included and tube inside the crossbar, that could be pulled out, sort of telescopic. This internal tube stuck out well beyond the side of the vehicle. You could prop the front end up on it, then lift the rear up and slide hte kayak over to your center line.

This method works if its too heavy, but I can't think of any other way to do it if she's too short.
Author:  dirtykj [ Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Kayaks
VTNomad wrote:
we included and tube inside the crossbar, that could be pulled out, sort of telescopic.


That's pretty much what the outrigger is, although Thule is asking quite a bit for it ($60 each) but for the money it does appear to be well engineered. The core is steel with outer sleeve made of aluminum and does have screw-on cap to fit snugly back inside the tube. You can probably make one much cheaper if the fit / finish doesn't need to be that high.
Author:  mrkake [ Tue Jul 01, 2008 10:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
What about those steps that you slide over your tire? Like this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002Q8TWI

You could probably fab something like this yourself too.
Author:  scoobysnax [ Wed Jul 02, 2008 9:19 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the ideas everyone! Keep them coming if you can. I have a friend that works at a machinist shop so cutting steel and all that are no problems and I can bring it to another guy if I need to weld anything. But I like the idea of the tube within a tube. I haven't looked at the youtube vids b/c I'm at work and don't have access. I'm 6'2" so the height is not really the issue, it's just the weight for my wife.

Here's an idea I was thinking of last night. It'd be so much easier if I knew how to post a freakn' picture so I can draw this but basically...

Using metal or steel, I think steel in this case would be needed for the strength.
Construct a steel box frame that will bolt onto the side rails. The rear of the box frame would need to hang off the back end of the Jeep up to the point where the lift gate will still have room to open. Within the box frame will be another box frame that will slide and pivot. You will slide the inner box frame to the back of the jeep. Once it reaches the end it will be able to fold down to the ground with the axes point being the rear of the top of the otter box frame. This should allow me to load the kayak onto the inner box frame that is now folded down. I lift up the box frame with the kayak loaded on top, once it's level I can just slid it forward and lock it down. I guess I can use this concept on the side of the car as well. I'm just thinking the angle would be larger and harder to hold in place and lift.

This sounds fairly complicated but I think it's workable. Unfortunately I won't be able to even start a project like this for another three weeks. So in the short terms I'm going to come up with a more crude muscle of mind technique. I'm going to make a large T bar out of 4 2x4's or 2 4x4's and mount that (during loading only) to the back of my hitch mounted bike rack (Thule Full Swing) the top of the T will be covered with a piece of rug. The hope is that I can lift the front of the kayak (keel down) on top of the T, lift the back up and slide the whole thing forward until I'm on the foam blocks. I'm sure I'll have to put some towels on the roof to avoid scratches but I think this will be my best solution in the short term. I should be able to either store the T bar portion in the car or on the roof, or even inside the kayak between transports.

Anyway, thanks again for the help so far, now back to the work that pays the bills.
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