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| Evap self test question http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36453 |
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| Author: | Shaggy [ Fri Oct 03, 2008 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Evap self test question |
After doing a search I have come to find out that the noise I have been hearing from my 05 Libby the last month or so is probably the evap self test. It sounds like a little compressor running for just a few seconds then shuts off. LOL its been driving me nuts because I will be outside, hear it and not know where it was coming from until last night. I was standing in the driveway talking to my father in law and it would happen every 5-10 minutes, sometimes louder than others and sometimes I was the only one to hear it. We finally figured out it was coming from the gas tank of the Jeep... WTF???? It is my daily driver except for the days I take the motorcycle to work and it has a little over 50k miles on it. It has been sitting in the same spot for a few days since I have been riding the bike to work this week and I thought maybe the TX sun beating down on the gas tank had heated it up and it was venting since the rear of the Libby faces due west when parked and the direct afternoon sun can get quite warm even on days when its only in the 80s, but this was at 9pm. I had also already popped the gas cap once to see if there was a lot of pressure in the tank, there was a little and I heard it release so I thought that was it. However, the pump ran again 10 mins later and there was pressure in the tank yet again, albeit a much lesser amount. So, this makes me think, I know the fuel systems require the gas tank to be pressurized, but why would it try to maintain that pressure when the engine is not running, especially for a few days? This also seems to have started just a few months ago and I have owned it since new. |
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| Author: | tommudd [ Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Mines done it since day one ( I assume that its the same noise) 110,000 miles and 4 years, and I never worry about it, its not broken, it runs OK, its not leaking, so for me, Why worry????? |
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| Author: | Shaggy [ Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
It just seems strange to hear a pump running every 5-10 minutes when the key is off. |
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| Author: | KJ4ME [ Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
my scion used to do this and it was explained to me that this is how the system checks itself for fuel leaks but mine would do this every couple of hours not minutes |
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| Author: | tommudd [ Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I am in my garage a lot doing different things and I may hear mine once or twice in an hour then never again for days. If its every 5 minutes on yours, then maybe it is a problem, but after dealing with people and their vehicles over the years it seems sometimes they make it a bigger problem than it truly is. Just my opinion. But if it bugs you take it to a garage and have it checked out. |
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| Author: | Dje Ryu [ Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
If you're gonna leave it parked for several days you might want to disconnect the battery, or you can pull the long term storage fuse in the driver side fuse box. The one you have to open the door to get to. The manual will show you which one it is. I think the fuse is marked, iirc. |
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| Author: | jeepkj02 [ Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Never really heard any noises coming out from my KJ when it is off? Is mine broken?? |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Right from the FSM('02).................... Quote: LEAK DETECTION PUMP DESCRIPTION The Leak Detection Pump (LDP) is bolted to the front of the fuel tank (Fig. 1). The Leak Detection Pump (LDP) is used only with certain emission packages. The LDP is a device used to detect a leak in the evaporative system The pump contains a 3 port solenoid, a pump that contains a switch, a spring loaded canister vent valve seal, 2 check valves and a spring/diaphragm. OPERATION Immediately after a cold start, engine temperature between 40°F and 86°F, the 3 port solenoid is briefly energized. This initializes the pump by drawing air into the pump cavity and also closes the vent seal. During non-test test conditions, the vent seal is held open by the pump diaphragm assembly which pushes it open at the full travel position. The vent seal will remain closed while the pump is cycling. This is due to the operation of the 3 port solenoid which prevents the diaphragm assembly from reaching full travel. After the brief initialization period, the solenoid is de-energized, allowing atmospheric pressure to enter the pump cavity. This permits the spring to drive the diaphragm which forces air out of the pump cavity and into the vent system. When the solenoid is energized and de-energized, the cycle is repeated creating flow in typical diaphragm pump fashion. The pump is controlled in 2 modes: PUMP MODE: The pump is cycled at a fixed rate to achieve a rapid pressure build in order to shorten the overall test time. TEST MODE: The solenoid is energized with a fixed duration pulse. Subsequent fixed pulses occur when the diaphragm reaches the switch closure point. The spring in the pump is set so that the system will achieve an equalized pressure of about 7.5 inches of water. When the pump starts, the cycle rate is quite high. As the system becomes pressurized pump rate drops. If there is no leak the pump will quit. If there is a leak, the test is terminated at the end of the test mode. If there is no leak, the purge monitor is run. If the cycle rate increases due to the flow through the purge system, the test is passed and the diagnostic is complete. The canister vent valve will unseal the system after completion of the test sequence as the pump diaphragm assembly moves to the full travel position. From the FSM('05)................... Quote: PUMP-NATURAL VAC LEAK
DETECTION DESCRIPTION Vehicles equipped with an NGC Powertrain Control Module (PCM) use a Natural Vacuum Leak Detection (NVLD) pump and system. Vehicles equipped with a JTEC PCM use an LDP (Leak Detection Pump). Refer to Leak Detection Pump (LDP) for additional information. The NVLD pump is located in the same area as the leak detection pump. Refer to NVLD Removal / Installation for additional information. OPERATION The Natural Vacuum Leak Detection (NVLD) system is the next generation evaporative leak detection system that will first be used on vehicles equipped with the Next Generation Controller (NGC). This new system replaces the leak detection pump as the method of evaporative system leak detection. This is to detect a leak equivalent to a 0.0209 (0.5 mm) hole. This system has the capability to detect holes of this size very dependably. The basic leak detection theory employed with NVLD is the 9Gas Law9. This is to say that the pressure in a sealed vessel will change if the temperature of the gas in the vessel changes. The vessel will only see this effect if it is indeed sealed. Even small leaks will allow the pressure in the vessel to come to equilibrium with the ambient pressure. In addition to the detection of very small leaks, this system has the capability of detecting medium as well as large evaporative system leaks. A vent valve seals the canister vent during engine off conditions. If the vapor system has a leak of less than the failure threshold, the evaporative system will be pulled into a vacuum, either due to the cool down from operating temperature or diurnal ambient temperature cycling. The diurnal effect is considered one of the primary contributors to the leak determination by this diagnostic. When the vacuum in the system exceeds about 19 H2O (0.25 KPA), a vacuum switch closes. The switch closure sends a signal to the NGC. The NGC, via appropriate logic strategies, utilizes the switch signal, or lack thereof, to make a determination of whether a leak is present. The NVLD device is designed with a normally open vacuum switch, a normally closed solenoid, and a seal, which is actuated by both the solenoid and a diaphragm. The NVLD is located on the atmospheric vent side of the canister. The NVLD assembly may be mounted on top of the canister outlet, or in-line between the canister and atmospheric vent filter. The normally open vacuum switch will close with about 19 H2O (0.25 KPA) vacuum in the evaporative system. The diaphragm actuates the switch. This is above the opening point of the fuel inlet check valve in the fill tube so cap off leaks can be detected. Submerged fill systems must have recirculation lines that do not have the in-line normally closed check valve that protects the system from failed nozzle liquid ingestion, in order to detect cap off conditions. The normally closed valve in the NVLD is intended to maintain the seal on the evaporative system during the engine off condition. If vacuum in the evaporative system exceeds 39 to 69 H2O (0.75 to 1.5 KPA), the valve will be pulled off the seat, opening the seal. This will protect the system from excessive vacuum as well as allowing sufficient purge flow in the event that the solenoid was to become inoperative. The solenoid actuates the valve to unseal the canister vent while the engine is running. It also will be used to close the vent during the medium and large leak tests and during the purge flow check. This solenoid requires an initial 1.5 amps of current to pull the valve open, but after 100 mili-seconds, will be duty cycled down to an average of about 150 mA for the remainder of the drive cycle. Another feature in the device is a diaphragm that will open the seal in the NVLD with pressure in the evaporative system. The device will 9blow off9 at about 0.59 H2O (0.12 KPA) pressure to permit the venting of vapors during refueling. An added benefit to this is that it will also allow the tank to 9breathe9 during increasing temperatures, thus limiting the pressure in the tank to this low level. This is beneficial because the induced vacuum during a subsequent declining temperature will achieve the switch closed (pass threshold) sooner than if the tank had to decay from a built up pressure. The device itself has 3 wires: Switch sense, solenoid driver and ground. It also includes a resistor to protect the switch from a short to battery or a short to ground. The NGC utilizes a high-side driver to energize and duty-cycle the solenoid. |
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| Author: | KJ4ME [ Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
huh, so that toyota guy was right! once i read this thread i immediately thought of when he told me that because it made the same noise as shaggy described |
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