LOST JEEPS :: View topic - New Chrysler Phoenix / Pentastar engines (2011)

premium gas only for those engines

it said regular gas right in the article (highlighted in red)? this engine is rumored to be nothing like anything out there, so maybe different principles apply? mike

performance or emissions.
Type Liquid cooled 60-degree V6

Material Aluminum block and heads; deep-skirt block
Valves Chain driven DOHC with 24 valves. Roller finger followers and hydraulic lash adjusters.
Dual independent cam-torque actuated phasers.
Displacement 220 cid / 3.6 liters
Bore x Stroke 3.78 x 3.27 (96 x 83 mm)
Fuel injection Returnless, sequential. Direct injection “may be coming.”
Compression 10.2:1
Fluid 6 quarts 5W20 oil; 14 quarts antifreeze; regular gas
Redline 6,400 rpm (stated elsewhere as 7,200 rpm)
Power 280 hp (209 kw) @ 6,400; 260 lb-ft (353 Nm) @ 4,800
Emission controls Dual three-way catalytic converters, heated oxygen sensors, internal features
Assembly First: Trenton South Engine, Trenton, Michigan

Crappy gas mileage and with the Libby weighing more than a GC, it will do worse. That is a step down.

there is no specs listed that seperates it from alot of engines already in production in other vehicles that need premium fuel due to the higher compression ratio..

You could use regular but it will run much better with premium with less long term problems..

The sad part is it has no low end power and makes it useless in a pickup or Jeep,now if would make 90% of it's peak torque from 1000RPM-4000RPM it would be better.

there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do to a 10:1 compression engine to make it run very well on regular gas

fancy gadgets do not alter laws of physics

JeepinJarhead03 wrote:

there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do to a 10:1 compression engine to make it run very well on regular gas

fancy gadgets do not alter laws of physics

Don't know about that I've had a lot of engines that run just fine on 85-87 at a up to 14:1 compression... Motorcycle engine, but same laws of physics.

JeepinJarhead03 wrote:

there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do to a 10:1 compression engine to make it run very well on regular gas

fancy gadgets do not alter laws of physics

Don't know about that I've had a lot of engines that run just fine on 85-87 at a up to 14:1 compression... Motorcycle engine, but same laws of physics.

Tokyojoe wrote:

Crappy gas mileage and with the Libby weighing more than a GC, it will do worse. That is a step down.

Liberty weighing more than a kj? Current WK is 600lbs more than a kj.. And the new 2011 WK is bigger than the current WK which is what that engine may be going in..

The standard engine is a new flexible-fuel 3.6-liter V-6 engine. The 3.6-liter V-6 engine is a completely new, state of the art design with double overhead camshafts (DOHC) and a high-pressure die-cast aluminum cylinder block in a 60-degree configuration. It has Variable-Valve Timing (VVT) and delivers 280 horsepower (209 kW) and 260 lb.-ft. of torque (353 N•m) @ 4,800 rpm, compared with the 2009 Grand Cherokee’s 3.7 liter’s 210 hp and 235 lb-ft of torque — yet, it improves fuel economy up to 11%, despite increased weight of the Grand Cherokee (from around 4,261 lb in 2009 to 4,470 lb for the V6). V6 gas mileage is better than the Toyota 4Runner and similar to the Honda Pilot.

The Phoenix V6 comes with the Mercedes W5A580 five-speed automatic, which has adaptive electronic control or Electronic Range Select (ERS) driver-interactive manual control. The gas tank has been increased to a 24.6 gallon capacity, which allows for a range of around 500 miles.
Pentastar V6 Hemi V8 Pilot 4Runner Explorer TrailBlazer ML450 Hybrid
2WD 16/23 14/20 17/23 16/21 14/20 14/20 (22 combined)
AWD 16/22 13/19 16/22 16/20 13/19 14/20 n/a

looks like it gets worse than our Current engine???

Jeepjeepster wrote:

Tokyojoe wrote:

Crappy gas mileage and with the Libby weighing more than a GC, it will do worse. That is a step down.

Liberty weighing more than a kj? Current WK is 600lbs more than a kj.. And the new 2011 WK is bigger than the current WK which is what that engine may be going in..

Actually, the current GC 4x4 Laredo only weighs 219 lbs more than a current Liberty Sport 4x4.

Don't know about that I've had a lot of engines that run just fine on 85-87 at a up to 14:1 compression... Motorcycle engine, but same laws of physics.

Author:	scoobysnax [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:	New Chrysler Phoenix / Pentastar engines (2011)
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/phoenix-engines.html So what are the odds that this new Chrysler engine will make it's way into a Liberty? It sounds sweet! Here's some of the specs I cut from the website above. Material Aluminum block and heads; deep-skirt block Valves Chain driven DOHC with 24 valves. Roller finger followers and hydraulic lash adjusters. Dual independent cam-torque actuated phasers. Displacement 220 cid / 3.6 liters Bore x Stroke 3.78 x 3.27 (96 x 83 mm) Fuel injection Returnless, sequential. Direct injection “may be coming.” Compression 10.2:1 Fluid 6 quarts 5W20 oil; 14 quarts antifreeze; regular gas Redline 6,400 rpm (stated elsewhere as 7,200 rpm) Power 280 hp (209 kw) @ 6,400; 260 lb-ft (353 Nm) @ 4,800 Emission controls Dual three-way catalytic converters, heated oxygen sensors, internal features Assembly First: Trenton South Engine, Trenton, Michigan The engine’s torque exceeds 90 percent of its peak value from 1,600 to 6,400 rpm. “The new Phoenix of V-6 engines will feature cylinder deactivation (MDS)...the engine will operate efficiently on three cylinders when less power is needed, and in V-6 mode when more power is needed. Running on regular gas, the Pentastar engine is rated for 16 mpg city, 23 highway on the Grand Cherokee In the Grand Cherokee, the engine will not have direct injection, partly because that technique, while more efficient, adds some noise and vibration. Direct injection is rumored to be on future versions of the engine.

Author:	Jeepjeepster [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:
Power 280 hp (209 kw) @ 6,400; 260 lb-ft (353 Nm) @ 4,800 That makes it useless to me.. I hardly ever go over 2,500 rpms so I would never even use that engine. And I would hope it got 90% of the torque from 1,600 to 6,400 rpm. Not sure why that wouldnt be 100% since it gets its max torque at 4,800 rpms. Just another car engine...

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:
Look at the compression ratio,premium gas only for those engines.It will run like s$%t on regular unleaded with 10.2:1.

Author:	JeepinJarhead03 [ Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: premium gas only for those engines +1

Author:	k99jk99j [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:53 am ]
Post subject:
it said regular gas right in the article (highlighted in red)? this engine is rumored to be nothing like anything out there, so maybe different principles apply? mike performance or emissions. Type Liquid cooled 60-degree V6 Material Aluminum block and heads; deep-skirt block Valves Chain driven DOHC with 24 valves. Roller finger followers and hydraulic lash adjusters. Dual independent cam-torque actuated phasers. Displacement 220 cid / 3.6 liters Bore x Stroke 3.78 x 3.27 (96 x 83 mm) Fuel injection Returnless, sequential. Direct injection “may be coming.” Compression 10.2:1 Fluid 6 quarts 5W20 oil; 14 quarts antifreeze; regular gas Redline 6,400 rpm (stated elsewhere as 7,200 rpm) Power 280 hp (209 kw) @ 6,400; 260 lb-ft (353 Nm) @ 4,800 Emission controls Dual three-way catalytic converters, heated oxygen sensors, internal features Assembly First: Trenton South Engine, Trenton, Michigan

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Author:	tjkj2002 [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:04 am ]
Post subject:
k99jk99j wrote: it said regular gas right in the article (highlighted in red)? this engine is rumored to be nothing like anything out there, so maybe different principles apply? mike performance or emissions. Type Liquid cooled 60-degree V6 Material Aluminum block and heads; deep-skirt block Valves Chain driven DOHC with 24 valves. Roller finger followers and hydraulic lash adjusters. Dual independent cam-torque actuated phasers. Displacement 220 cid / 3.6 liters Bore x Stroke 3.78 x 3.27 (96 x 83 mm) Fuel injection Returnless, sequential. Direct injection “may be coming.” Compression 10.2:1 Fluid 6 quarts 5W20 oil; 14 quarts antifreeze; regular gas Redline 6,400 rpm (stated elsewhere as 7,200 rpm) Power 280 hp (209 kw) @ 6,400; 260 lb-ft (353 Nm) @ 4,800 Emission controls Dual three-way catalytic converters, heated oxygen sensors, internal features Assembly First: Trenton South Engine, Trenton, Michigan Yeah it does but there is no specs listed that seperates it from alot of engines already in production in other vehicles that need premium fuel due to the higher compression ratio.You could use regular but it will run much better with premium with less long term problems.The sad part is it has no low end power and makes it useless in a pickup or Jeep,now if would make 90% of it's peak torque from 1000RPM-4000RPM it would be better.

Author:	Tokyojoe [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:20 am ]
Post subject:
Crappy gas mileage and with the Libby weighing more than a GC, it will do worse. That is a step down.

Author:	Jeepjeepster [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:16 am ]
Post subject:
Tokyojoe wrote: Crappy gas mileage and with the Libby weighing more than a GC, it will do worse. That is a step down. Liberty weighing more than a kj? Current WK is 600lbs more than a kj.. And the new 2011 WK is bigger than the current WK which is what that engine may be going in.. The standard engine is a new flexible-fuel 3.6-liter V-6 engine. The 3.6-liter V-6 engine is a completely new, state of the art design with double overhead camshafts (DOHC) and a high-pressure die-cast aluminum cylinder block in a 60-degree configuration. It has Variable-Valve Timing (VVT) and delivers 280 horsepower (209 kW) and 260 lb.-ft. of torque (353 N•m) @ 4,800 rpm, compared with the 2009 Grand Cherokee’s 3.7 liter’s 210 hp and 235 lb-ft of torque — yet, it improves fuel economy up to 11%, despite increased weight of the Grand Cherokee (from around 4,261 lb in 2009 to 4,470 lb for the V6). V6 gas mileage is better than the Toyota 4Runner and similar to the Honda Pilot. The Phoenix V6 comes with the Mercedes W5A580 five-speed automatic, which has adaptive electronic control or Electronic Range Select (ERS) driver-interactive manual control. The gas tank has been increased to a 24.6 gallon capacity, which allows for a range of around 500 miles. Pentastar V6 Hemi V8 Pilot 4Runner Explorer TrailBlazer ML450 Hybrid 2WD 16/23 14/20 17/23 16/21 14/20 14/20 (22 combined) AWD 16/22 13/19 16/22 16/20 13/19 14/20 n/a looks like it gets worse than our Current engine???

Author:	JeepinJarhead03 [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:26 am ]
Post subject:
there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do to a 10:1 compression engine to make it run very well on regular gas fancy gadgets do not alter laws of physics

Author:	k99jk99j [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:00 am ]
Post subject:
tjkj2002 wrote: there is no specs listed that seperates it from alot of engines already in production in other vehicles that need premium fuel due to the higher compression ratio.. correct, but: for the engineers to give us their proprietary information would be foolish. i also see nothing in the specs about the oil cooling tower or the absence of exhaust manifold. maybe we should think outside the box? tjkj2002 wrote: You could use regular but it will run much better with premium with less long term problems.. as with any vehicle. tjkj2002 wrote: The sad part is it has no low end power and makes it useless in a pickup or Jeep,now if would make 90% of it's peak torque from 1000RPM-4000RPM it would be better. thats why the direct inject version is going in the ram and wrangler (more vibration is acceptable). and those #'s haven't been released!

Author:	daspes [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:03 am ]
Post subject:
JeepinJarhead03 wrote: there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do to a 10:1 compression engine to make it run very well on regular gas fancy gadgets do not alter laws of physics Don't know about that I've had a lot of engines that run just fine on 85-87 at a up to 14:1 compression... Motorcycle engine, but same laws of physics.

Author:	Sir Sam [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:
daspes wrote: JeepinJarhead03 wrote: there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do to a 10:1 compression engine to make it run very well on regular gas fancy gadgets do not alter laws of physics Don't know about that I've had a lot of engines that run just fine on 85-87 at a up to 14:1 compression... Motorcycle engine, but same laws of physics. My Nissan with 10.5 compression ran fine on 85 here at 5200ft, no loss in power or mileage, course I never ran it down at sea level to see if it would become a slug on regular.

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:
daspes wrote: JeepinJarhead03 wrote: there's not a whole hell of a lot you can do to a 10:1 compression engine to make it run very well on regular gas fancy gadgets do not alter laws of physics Don't know about that I've had a lot of engines that run just fine on 85-87 at a up to 14:1 compression... Motorcycle engine, but same laws of physics. My KJ knocks/pings on 85 octane with 9.1:1 compression ratio .I built my 350 Rocket engine that was in my '75 Cutlas to 13.5:1 and I almost blew it apart trying to run 93 octane,had to fork over for the $5 per gallon 116 octane CAMII race fuel($5 back in '94).Over 10:1 your playing Russian Rulet running regular,sure modern advances can retard the timing to make it run but with premium it will run alot better,you'd be amazed.

Author:	Tokyojoe [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:
Jeepjeepster wrote: Tokyojoe wrote: Crappy gas mileage and with the Libby weighing more than a GC, it will do worse. That is a step down. Liberty weighing more than a kj? Current WK is 600lbs more than a kj.. And the new 2011 WK is bigger than the current WK which is what that engine may be going in.. The standard engine is a new flexible-fuel 3.6-liter V-6 engine. The 3.6-liter V-6 engine is a completely new, state of the art design with double overhead camshafts (DOHC) and a high-pressure die-cast aluminum cylinder block in a 60-degree configuration. It has Variable-Valve Timing (VVT) and delivers 280 horsepower (209 kW) and 260 lb.-ft. of torque (353 N•m) @ 4,800 rpm, compared with the 2009 Grand Cherokee’s 3.7 liter’s 210 hp and 235 lb-ft of torque — yet, it improves fuel economy up to 11%, despite increased weight of the Grand Cherokee (from around 4,261 lb in 2009 to 4,470 lb for the V6). V6 gas mileage is better than the Toyota 4Runner and similar to the Honda Pilot. The Phoenix V6 comes with the Mercedes W5A580 five-speed automatic, which has adaptive electronic control or Electronic Range Select (ERS) driver-interactive manual control. The gas tank has been increased to a 24.6 gallon capacity, which allows for a range of around 500 miles. Pentastar V6 Hemi V8 Pilot 4Runner Explorer TrailBlazer ML450 Hybrid 2WD 16/23 14/20 17/23 16/21 14/20 14/20 (22 combined) AWD 16/22 13/19 16/22 16/20 13/19 14/20 n/a looks like it gets worse than our Current engine??? Actually, the current GC 4x4 Laredo only weighs 219 lbs more than a current Liberty Sport 4x4.

Author:	JeepinJarhead03 [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:13 am ]
Post subject:
didn't say it wouldn't run there's nowhere near the mass to send off balance by preignition in a motorcycle engine my Ducatti's chattered like crazy on 87 though 748 was 11.5 and 996 was 13.5 if i remember right the 355 in my T/A at 9.5 ran 'decent' on 89, when i raised it to 10.5 it pinged on 89 and just about wouldn't run on 87 but that's a NA engine, newer engines with ping/knock sensors will trim the mixture until it stops resulting in some pretty lawnmower-esque behavior

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Author:	tjkj2002 [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:
Tokyojoe wrote: Jeepjeepster wrote: Tokyojoe wrote: Crappy gas mileage and with the Libby weighing more than a GC, it will do worse. That is a step down. Liberty weighing more than a kj? Current WK is 600lbs more than a kj.. And the new 2011 WK is bigger than the current WK which is what that engine may be going in.. The standard engine is a new flexible-fuel 3.6-liter V-6 engine. The 3.6-liter V-6 engine is a completely new, state of the art design with double overhead camshafts (DOHC) and a high-pressure die-cast aluminum cylinder block in a 60-degree configuration. It has Variable-Valve Timing (VVT) and delivers 280 horsepower (209 kW) and 260 lb.-ft. of torque (353 N•m) @ 4,800 rpm, compared with the 2009 Grand Cherokee’s 3.7 liter’s 210 hp and 235 lb-ft of torque — yet, it improves fuel economy up to 11%, despite increased weight of the Grand Cherokee (from around 4,261 lb in 2009 to 4,470 lb for the V6). V6 gas mileage is better than the Toyota 4Runner and similar to the Honda Pilot. The Phoenix V6 comes with the Mercedes W5A580 five-speed automatic, which has adaptive electronic control or Electronic Range Select (ERS) driver-interactive manual control. The gas tank has been increased to a 24.6 gallon capacity, which allows for a range of around 500 miles. Pentastar V6 Hemi V8 Pilot 4Runner Explorer TrailBlazer ML450 Hybrid 2WD 16/23 14/20 17/23 16/21 14/20 14/20 (22 combined) AWD 16/22 13/19 16/22 16/20 13/19 14/20 n/a looks like it gets worse than our Current engine??? Actually, the current GC 4x4 Laredo only weighs 219 lbs more than a current Liberty Sport 4x4. Which still about 1000lbs less then my KJ

Author:	ATXKJ [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:07 am ]
Post subject:
daspes wrote: Don't know about that I've had a lot of engines that run just fine on 85-87 at a up to 14:1 compression... Motorcycle engine, but same laws of physics. Yeah - but the controling physics are flame front propagation speeds - you can't change that. but what you can change is the shape the flame front has to propagate into (wedge, hemi, mixed) The distance it has to go, the dwell time of the piston at top dead center and air flow characteristics inside the combustion chamber. and frankly most motorcycle companies seem to focus more on development than car companies (the dollars probably aren't the same - but a new Suzuki was probably prototype on a race track last year)