Welders

Xodius · **Posted:** Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:34 pm

OK, so I have been tossing around the idea as of late to make a few things on my own. Mostly a bumper and perhaps a trailer...if soemthing else comes about then so be it. My question for you is what would be a good unit for a first timer to buy and use. I obviously am not going to go into business, lol, and am just working on projects for myself. Granted I know the Tim Taylor point of view and respect that. However, for a on occassion machine, what would be good. What price range and all that other fun stuff.
Like I said I would make a bumper for my KJ and I believe it would be 1/4 plate...but that is still being determined.
Thanks.

bugnout · **Posted:** Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:32 pm

Northern Tool is pretty good source for some fairly priced 110 MIG welders. The Hobart Handler 140 can be had for under $500. I have the Northern Industrial 135 for about $150 less. It seems to be a chinese copy of a Lincoln model. Haven't done a lot with it yet, but I was able to make decent welds right out of the box.

You can use it with flux core wire, but I recommend for either of these you get a gas bottle so you can weld spatter free.

Hobart is a division of Miller, so a lot of the parts and designs are the same.

ridenby · **Posted:** Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:11 pm

Harbor Freight , has several low cost wire welders,guess you don't know how to weld currently a wire welder,flux core or mig with CO2-argon mix simple to learn,flux core being least expensive of two.

Xodius · **Posted:** Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:21 pm

Sounds good. I will have to check them both out. I was at HF yesterday and they had a nice 90 amp welder for...79.99 I think it was. I was this close to getting it and my FIL said it was a POS. LOL.

Spatter...correct me if I am wrong but that is more or less the small...burs left in the surrounding area? In order to remove that though you would just grind it down right?

<---total newb when it comes to this, lol.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:07 pm

If you want to weld 1/4" plate you will want a 220 volt welder at min,your not going to get the penetration needed to safely weld 1/4" plate with a 110 volt welder.

Boiler · **Posted:** Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:57 pm

I'm not here to dash your hopes and dream of fabricating your own stuff, maybe you put your mind to things, learn them, and come out the other side with new skills all the time.

But one thing I know is that fabricating stuff is not easy, always costs more than you expect, and takes a long time. If you're just doing your own to save a few bucks, you'd be better off working a minimum wage job on the weekends and just buying something already offered. The hours you'll spend to make stuff not quite as nice as some of the stuff currently offered will far outweigh the money saved....if you actually save any

But if you do want to learn how to do this kind of stuff and gain some skills that will give you a lifetime of usefulness, have at it! Maybe find some fabrication forums too, I've seen a few but never really looked at them as I know everything already... :twisted:

One thing I'd recommend is that before you buy tools or equipment to perform a certain function, ask around on how people would perform that function. You'll end up with less tools that you really don't need, and more of the right ones for the job.

ramlebliberty · **Posted:** Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:17 am

maybe try an arc welder, messy but it's nothing that can't be fixed with a grinder. It will also penetrate anything you will need to weld. Plus once you learn to control an arc it will make learning mig welding that much easier. I just tacked my thrush welded muffler in on Sunday with a classic lincoln 220, took a lil bit too get used to it being I haven't touched an arc welder in 6 years but it only took 10 minutes to cut, prep, and weld up the new muffler. And you can find good used arc welders on craigslist for around $150 - $200

brucebotti · **Posted:** Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:37 am

Boiler is 100% correct. Check out this site. It is biased towards Hobart, but it is a friendly, helpful site. It helped me in finally deciding on a Hobart 187 and I love it.
Bruce

http://hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/

Xodius · **Posted:** Thu Oct 08, 2009 7:11 pm

Cool thanks guys.

rescu2000 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:18 pm

Having gone through this process myself, I can offer this advice:

1/4" might be thicker (heavier) than you want. Mine is 3/16". ARB's are 3mm I think (Which is less than 1/8" thick), but it has tubing reinforcement (per their site). If I were to do it again, I might even go 1/8". Mine is currently 3/16" and I've never thought "I wish I'd made that thicker". The brackets on mine are 1/4" 2"X2" angle steel.

Troy is right, to weld 1/4" you will want a 220v to do a good job. I did my 3/16" bumper with a good 110v, but I welded both sides because I didn't like the penetration. You can get buy with 110v on 1/8" and maybe 3/16" as long as it is a good welder.

I recommend a wire welder because they are so darn easy to use. The flux core is fine, it will just take a lot of work to clean it up. The gas will allow you to just weld and be done once you get good.

Arc welders are cheaper and will do a great job once you get good with them, but not as easy as the point-and-click wire wleders.

If you can afford it, get a cheap plasma cutter. Even a harbor freight 40 amp for $550 will work (that's what I used). I wouldn't expect it to last for years, but mine has paid for itself already. If it dies tomorrow, I got my money's worth out of it.

If you go with a wire welder, don't cheap out. The smoothness of the wire feed makes all the difference in how easy it is to use. Cheap ones don't cut it. Don't get an HF welder.

Mock up the design using foam board from a local hobby shop. You can buy it in 3/16" thicknesses so that it will be the same dimensions as your steel. Cut it, tape it up, etc. Then use it as a template to cut your steel.

Boiler is right that this will take MUCH more work than you think it will. I would do it again ina heartbeat, but only because it is mine. I have a lot of respect for Marty and Boiler who do this all the time. I have had people aske me to make them a bumper and I say, nope. I'll help you make one, but I couldn't sell them for $2000 and make it worth my time.

The steel for front and back bumpers on mine cost about $250.
Welder (used) $350
Plasma Cutter $550
Grinder, Sawzaw, wire $250

So you can clearly see that I probably could have bought a rock lizard front and rear bumper, especially when you consider the 40 hrs or so of labor that is not included. I wanted a welder and plasma cutter anyway, so it was the right thing to do for me, but it isn't for everyone. And even though I really like my front bumper, the RL rear bumper looks a lot better than mine.

LIV42DY · **Posted:** Thu Oct 08, 2009 10:35 pm

From an ex welder. start with a stick welder, 220volt nothing less. welding steel needs to be 100 amps or higher depending on the thickness and composition . after you learn how to stick weld. then get yourself a MIG/Tig welder. learning alum and stainless is another story. Do some reasearch before you dip into buying a welder. Even invest in a short course on welding that provide the equipment I mentioned, that is if you are really interested. There is a lot to learn about welding before you even strike the your first arc. After if you think you like it, save your money and buy nothing but a Miller or a Lincoln welder. hope it helps.

LibertyFever · **Posted:** Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:38 am

I can so identify with what you're saying Xodius. I've bought myself a quality 220VAC stick welder and a cheap 110VAC flux core welder with the same intentions but have learned that welding is a skill that has to be learned. Don't expect to make solid pretty welds the first time.

The stick welder is good for heavy steel but the flux core welder is crap. Maybe there are good quality flux core welders but I've borrowed a friend's MIG before and love the quality of the welds made with it. But I can't justify buying a MIG so I'll just settle for buying the welding supplies for my buddy that owns the MIG and have him weld for me.

And it goes without saying that welds that aren't pretty are likely not safe.

L.O. · **Posted:** Fri Oct 09, 2009 12:03 pm

I agree with LIV42DY.
I have not welded in many years, but long ago, when I needed to learn some welding, I took a evening course at a local community college. It really paid off and was certainly worth the time and money.

jsc7002 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:20 pm

I have the Hobart Handler 140 and I love it! I run .035 FC wire and it does a great job and depending on what I am welding it takes a little more prep work since it is only a 110v but it does most everything I need and if it doest I have a 220v ARC welder. Which is the same set-up I recommend to most people get a good ol Lincoln 220 arc welder and then a good Hobart or Lincoln or Miller MIG welder. Since your just learning how to weld you dont want a 110v bc you probably wont get the penetration you need because it takes a little more work whereas a 220 is great to learn on since you can turn the heat up and burn it in good and easy.

Also I dont know if you know or not but typically FC burns hotter so it will get better penetration than running MIG, FC is better if you are outside with a breeze and it is better for dirty metal but the welds are a little harder and are dirty. Solid wire is cheaper than FC, but with FC you dont need to mess with a gas bottle.

Welding is a nice thing to know how to do, Ive saved myself hundreds of dollars easily since I fab everything up myself, so doing it myself has easily paid for itself. If you have any questions about the HH140 just let me know Ill be glad to help you in any way I can,

tools113 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:00 pm

Clark makes an excellent welder

jsc7002 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:46 pm

And another thing to keep in mind is do you have 220 access? That is another bonus of the HH140 is that I can use it almost anywhere.

Xodius · **Posted:** Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:28 pm

I don't currently have a 220 in my garage but am planning on running a line here in the very near future.

You all have given me some great advise. I have started to check out welding classes and got a call yesterday that my Father in Law located a deal on a welder form hi Maintenance Manager at work. I do not have the specs yet but he is beyond excited and he is buying it for himself...so, I will be over a lot more, lol. My wife just gives me looks as I have egged him on about Jeeps and welding for a while now and he is beyond stoked. He is a exbody man so he is excited that I am picking his brain all the time. No one else in the family is into vehicles like him and I.

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