Stealerships's - My potential $3000 bill

99_XC600 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:05 pm

I wanted to start a new thread on my trip to the local stealership and why this trip just reaffirmed my despise of them.

You can read the details on why I had to bring my Jeep to them by reading this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65595

1st I want to say. I'm somewhat happy that I decided to bring it to the dealership for the correct diagnosis on the electrical condition since I was ready to order a new PCM for about $250 that I wouldn't have needed.

The total for the repair and replacement of the CPS came out to $436. ( Yes I know, a complete rip off) Considering the part can be sourced out for under $100.00 and takes about 30 min to replace if no issues. But I felt like I had no choice, since it was an intermittent electrical issue

Diagnostic for CEL (CPS Failure) $99.00
Diagnostic for No Start $89.00 (Reflash of WCM)
CPS Replacement $228.00 (Parts and Labor) He double billed me for the labor considering he had to replace the CPS to confirm that was the issue during the diagnostic.

What really annoyed me was the cash grab for additional services that they tried to get my wife to bite on. It went something like this

Serpentine belt replacement $180.00 (Belt can be purchased for $25.00 and replaced in about 10 min)
Brake Fluid Flush $150.00
Front Brakes $500.00 (Pads and Rotors) I can get the parts for $90 at AutoZone
Front Tie Rod End $250.00 - Double labor - Your already changing the front brakes and have everything apart - why are you charging me labor again?
Rear Brakes $450.00 (Pads and Rotors) - I can get the parts for $75 at AutoZone
Spark Plug Change $230.00 - What?!?!?!
Replace Power Steering Hose $350.00 - I told him the reason there was leaking fluid was a result of pushing the Jeep into the garage and the fluid came out of the pump.

They're was a couple of other things on his list that he wanted to do as a preventative maintenance, but I told him to stop after I was laughing at the $180.00 quote for changing the serpentine belt.

I asked him, Well did you look to see if the Jeep is on the recall list for the control arms? He said....Umm no. It was at that point I got really pissed and asked him why he was so intent in going for a cash grab when your not even looking to see if the vehicle is current with any recalls or TSB's?

I then politely told him I would just like the CPS replaced and the recall work done and that I was going to pass on everything else. Since I thought his prices were high. He came back and said. Well these are OEM parts. I said, well it doesn't really matter since everything is made in China anyway.

He didn't appreciate that.

I can understand that everyone needs to make money in their business model. But seriously, there is a difference in making money and ripping someone off.

If there's a member on the board who works as a tech in a dealer (Doesn't have to be a Jeep dealer either). Please put in your 2 cents, since I know the vast majority of you work from the "Flat Rate" system from the repair book. I would like to hear your side of the story.

Rant Over

kjon · **Posted:** Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:37 pm

Did they tell you that they had some extra stereo equipment left over from a big job that they'd let go for real cheap too? What a bunch of scammers!

Every dollar I've spent on tools has probably saved me $100 at the dealership....

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:29 pm

Cheap belts that last maybe 10,000 miles and make noise are $25,high quaility EPDM belts are about $100.Good rotors and pads cost $$$,any rotor and pad bought at autozone is the lowest of low grade in brakes.There is more to chnaging the tie rod ends then taking the wheels off and doing the brakes has in no way anything to do with changing the tie rod ends besides removing the wheel,that price also includes a alignment which is required after changing tie rod ends.Remember your paying for labor also,and no that $100+ a hour for labor does not go the tech,maybe $15 of it does the rest goes into paying shop overhead and insurance.

adamkrz · **Posted:** Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:18 pm

My son is a tech. at a dealership and yes prices are high but sometimes you get what you pay for, He sees cars all day where customers installed cheap parts only to cause a more costly repair.

I do most of my own work but went back to using OEM parts from mopar - no surprises later.

My mother went to Firestone with a low tire a few weeks ago and ended up with a $2600.00 bill, They scared her into thinking her car was unsafe and replaced everything they could make up which was a pure rip-off of a senior, When I went back to firestone and asked to see all the parts they said they are all thrown away already..

99_XC600 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:31 pm

tjkj2002 wrote:

Cheap belts that last maybe 10,000 miles and make noise are $25,high quaility EPDM belts are about $100.Good rotors and pads cost $$$,any rotor and pad bought at autozone is the lowest of low grade in brakes.There is more to chnaging the tie rod ends then taking the wheels off and doing the brakes has in no way anything to do with changing the tie rod ends besides removing the wheel,that price also includes a alignment which is required after changing tie rod ends.Remember your paying for labor also,and no that $100+ a hour for labor does not go the tech,maybe $15 of it does the rest goes into paying shop overhead and insurance.

I've never had any premature part failures from items purchased from NAPA, Advanced Auto Parts or Autozone that were \used in my vehicles.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:35 pm

99_XC600 wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

Cheap belts that last maybe 10,000 miles and make noise are $25,high quaility EPDM belts are about $100.Good rotors and pads cost $$$,any rotor and pad bought at autozone is the lowest of low grade in brakes.There is more to chnaging the tie rod ends then taking the wheels off and doing the brakes has in no way anything to do with changing the tie rod ends besides removing the wheel,that price also includes a alignment which is required after changing tie rod ends.Remember your paying for labor also,and no that $100+ a hour for labor does not go the tech,maybe $15 of it does the rest goes into paying shop overhead and insurance.

I've never had any premature part failures from items purchased from NAPA, Advanced Auto Parts or Autozone that were been used in my vehicles.

I spend over half my week replacing failed advance auto and autozone parts that customers installed,#1 item on that list is waterpumps followed very closely by there cheap pads.Same goes with Napa's value line,there higher end line is pretty fault free for the most part as I also use there high end line for parts like bearings,seals,and such but OEM for any sensor.

Jaber · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:37 am **Posts:** 102

My mother in-law recently took her Chrysler Pacifica to her nearby Chrysler/Jeep dealership. It currently has approx 21,000 miles. She took it in for something minor (warranty work). When she went to pick it up, they gave her a list of recommended services. She almost choked when she saw a $800+ bill for the "recommendations".

From what I remember.. they tried to get her to do transmission fluid service, fuel injection cleaning, tire rotation/alignment (even though they just recently did this, for new tires, at the same place), and some other fluid change. She's the type that sticks to the schedule maintenance book (till the end btw) and almost ripped them a new one, for trying to take advantage of her. This dealership is the closest to both of us. But I rather drive 40 miles, round trip and go to the one I've had good service (so far).

Boomerang · **Joined:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:46 pm **Posts:** 184

I paid $60 fort an OEM 2006 3.7L serpentine belt and put it in.
The $100 belt the dealership mech wrote about it pretty off and on that repalcement at least I think he's more protecting his own bottom line than anything.
I did take his recommendation though on the OEM water pump.... the thing is... I shouldn't have had to replace it at 40k. And the new OEM one i bought was plastic inside when the one I took off was cast. Hopefully the plastid scoops work better... Really.. on one of the easiest vehicles to work on in the entire world they wanted that much foir spark plugs? My god man!

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:38 pm

Boomerang wrote:

I paid $60 fort an OEM 2006 3.7L serpentine belt and put it in.
The $100 belt the dealership mech wrote about it pretty off and on that repalcement at least I think he's more protecting his own bottom line than anything.
I did take his recommendation though on the OEM water pump.... the thing is... I shouldn't have had to replace it at 40k. And the new OEM one i bought was plastic inside when the one I took off was cast. Hopefully the plastid scoops work better... Really.. on one of the easiest vehicles to work on in the entire world they wanted that much foir spark plugs? My god man!

Techs have nothing to do with prices or have no care "for the bottom line" either,half the time they are not the ones actually recommending most of those services either.I catch our service advisors doing that all the time,I will only recommend what is needed and any maintenance items,and I write on the ticket with this "if not already done".Funny watching the servise advisor skip over something like a brake light bulb out and sell diff services when not needed.

Point to the story don't blame the tech,blame the service adviser.

99_XC600 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:58 am

Here is an example of what confirms my opinion on this particular dealer.

When looking at the invoice for the work done. Here was the breakdown of labor.

Remove and Replace Control Arms - .5 Hours. This was the labor rate mandated under the recall from Chrysler and how long they felt it would take to replace.

Replace failed CPS $228 . (Part was $52.00). The labor was 1.6 hours (This was on the quote and before anything was actually done - not actual time). The CPS is held on by a single bolt that is easily removed with a ratchet and a long extension.

Tell me how it takes 3 times as long to remove a single bolt versus multiple fasteners on the control arms?

99_XC600 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 01, 2012 9:04 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

99_XC600 wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

Cheap belts that last maybe 10,000 miles and make noise are $25,high quaility EPDM belts are about $100.Good rotors and pads cost $$$,any rotor and pad bought at autozone is the lowest of low grade in brakes.There is more to chnaging the tie rod ends then taking the wheels off and doing the brakes has in no way anything to do with changing the tie rod ends besides removing the wheel,that price also includes a alignment which is required after changing tie rod ends.Remember your paying for labor also,and no that $100+ a hour for labor does not go the tech,maybe $15 of it does the rest goes into paying shop overhead and insurance.

I've never had any premature part failures from items purchased from NAPA, Advanced Auto Parts or Autozone that were been used in my vehicles.

I spend over half my week replacing failed advance auto and autozone parts that customers installed,#1 item on that list is waterpumps followed very closely by there cheap pads.Same goes with Napa's value line,there higher end line is pretty fault free for the most part as I also use there high end line for parts like bearings,seals,and such but OEM for any sensor.

I can only speak from my personal experience but I agree that you have a higher exposure to it them me. So your sample size is larger.

My argument really isn't against the quality of parts but more against the crazy labor rates and estimation of time to replace the parts.

As an example. The outer tie rod end can be replaced in under 30 minutes. (I've done them before). I should mention that the quote to replace the part DID NOT include a alignment. That was another $110.00 charge.

bbo · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:17 pm **Posts:** 382

who work for a dealership as a tech for 15$ an hour with no benefits?

I understand Dealers have overhead like everone else. No reason they can't charge what it takes to stay in business and make whatever profit they can. They serve a valuable service. Just like Autozone and other parts dealers do for the DIY guy. Just like independant repair places.

There are certain things I'll do myself, certain things I take to my independant dealer and certain things I'll go to the dealer for.

They all serve a certain segment f the public and they all help to keep the prices of the other two in a certain range.

Greaser · **Posted:** Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:08 am

Well just talking from personal experience from labor rates (I am a dealer tech for Volkswagen for the better part of a decade), labor rates are usually preset either by Motors or Chiltons, and if either of those don't have a labor time for what your quoting, you take warranty time and multiply that by 1.5. Now is that time of 1.6 including an hour of diag time?
Just because it might take a tech 15 minutes to replace a component doesn't mean they charge 15 minutes for it.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Boomerang · **Joined:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:46 pm **Posts:** 184

tjkj2002 wrote:

Boomerang wrote:

I paid $60 fort an OEM 2006 3.7L serpentine belt and put it in.
The $100 belt the dealership mech wrote about it pretty off and on that repalcement at least I think he's more protecting his own bottom line than anything.
I did take his recommendation though on the OEM water pump.... the thing is... I shouldn't have had to replace it at 40k. And the new OEM one i bought was plastic inside when the one I took off was cast. Hopefully the plastid scoops work better... Really.. on one of the easiest vehicles to work on in the entire world they wanted that much foir spark plugs? My god man!

Techs have nothing to do with prices or have no care "for the bottom line" either,half the time they are not the ones actually recommending most of those services either.I catch our service advisors doing that all the time,I will only recommend what is needed and any maintenance items,and I write on the ticket with this "if not already done".Funny watching the servise advisor skip over something like a brake light bulb out and sell diff services when not needed.

Point to the story don't blame the tech,blame the service adviser.

Makes sense. I worked at a Ford dealership. The advisors are salesmen, often a bit slimey. However if you're paid flatrate you want to cram as much work into a day as possible. But you are just as interested in at least your bottom line. Flat rate can be great when the work is there.

LibertyGuy · **Posted:** Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:29 pm

I stopped going to the dealer a very long time ago!

99_XC600 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:09 pm

LibertyGuy wrote:

I stopped going to the dealer a very long time ago!

I completely agree. Unfortunately the root cause issue was the SKIM system loosing all of the information for the keys which resulted in the no crank condition. Since it was all protected software from Chrysler I had no choice to bring it in.

Not sure where everyone else lives, but Massachusetts is currently working on the "Right to Repair Act" which is coming up for ratification in November. Basically it's a bill that requires the MFG's to release the proprietary information to repair vehicles that are no longer covered under type of MFG warranty. The bill basically states that the current practice creates a monopoly that is unfair to the consumer. Stating if the MFG ever fails or incorporated into another company. That information to repair is essentially lost.

The downfall of SAAB is a perfect example. When SAAB when bankrupt in the fall of 2011. One of the first things that was shutoff was access to the SAAB knowledge base. This left a high amount of SAAB customers who were currently at dealerships without the ability to diagnose and repair the vehicles. If you go look at SAAB's, they are now going for dirt cheap. Just for the fact that major components and the software are no longer available.

If the bill passes this fall, It's going to have sweeping changes throughout the industry.

Click on the link to learn more and how to contact your state officials regarding your support for the bill.

http://www.righttorepair.org/main/Default.aspx

hooperswish · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:34 am

Preventive maintenance will make your vehicle purr.... :JEEPIN:

Keep your fluids fresh and clean (go synthetic), keep fresh coolant by changing every couple of years (corrosion at the water pump seals is often do to corrosive junk in the fluid), change your brake fluid yourself ( I use the motive product), change your own plugs, change your own belt as needed, and don't walk, but run from the stealership. When needed, use a good quality independent mechanic.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:26 pm

bbo wrote:

who work for a dealership as a tech for 15$ an hour with no benefits?

.

Most techs get about $15-$20 per hour depending on certifications.It can take a long time before you start to see $15+ a hour working as a tech.

Like stated they use a standard labor guide for labor.Sure alot of those labor times seem high and most techs will beat it easily but you also run into alot of times that stubborn job that pay's 1 hour and takes you 6 hours.The biggest reason for the longer labor times you see charged is due to corrosion on vehicles.Take a outer tie rod end,pay's(and your charged) on average 0.9 hours and many times can be done in 0.2 hours but about 2 in 5 will be so corroded that it will take well over a hour to remove.

Plus the fact that techs must buy there own tools those who buy the correct tools can do jobs faster but tools cost big $$$ and those cheap tools like from harbor freight and sears just don't cut it.I have now about $65,000 worth of tools at work alone,and that's before adding in my toolbox which is another $12,000.

99_XC600 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 8:32 pm

hooperswish wrote:

Preventive maintenance will make your vehicle purr.... :JEEPIN:

Keep your fluids fresh and clean (go synthetic), keep fresh coolant by changing every couple of years (corrosion at the water pump seals is often do to corrosive junk in the fluid), change your brake fluid yourself ( I use the motive product), change your own plugs, change your own belt as needed, and don't walk, but run from the stealership. When needed, use a good quality independent mechanic.

Will do, I plan on showing it some love this weekend. I'll be replacing the passenger outer tie rod as well changing the plugs.

Boomerang · **Joined:** Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:46 pm **Posts:** 184

tjkj2002 wrote:

.

Plus the fact that techs must buy there own tools those who buy the correct tools can do jobs faster but tools cost big $$$ and those cheap tools like from harbor freight and sears just don't cut it.I have now about $65,000 worth of tools at work alone,and that's before adding in my toolbox which is another $12,000.[/quote]

Yeah those Snap-On guys have you mechanics good. Pull up in thier shiny trucks with all kinds of goodies, hard to resist.

Stealerships's - My potential $3000 bill

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