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Why do I suck off-roading?
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Author:  TallNorton [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Why do I suck off-roading?
I bought the Jeep as an additional vehicle for the sole purpose off getting me and my gear up to my mountain land.

The road up there is pretty screwed up and the Liberty does great....as long as things aren't slick/wet.

There are two spots on the final leg into the property that are bogs....rutted, muddy, potholed messes. The rest of the lane there gets wet and doesn't dry out very well. Very clay heavy soil that is slick as ice when glazed with water.

I was up there Saturday and darn near killed myself coming out of there.

It's a very slight uphill grade and I came up in 1st gear (manual trans) with the vehicle in 4 hi. As I started hitting the ruts, the front end started to go towards the downhill side of the road in spite of turning the opposite direction. With a 50ft drop there I was a little nervous to say the least.

I got the vehicle stopped and put it in 4lo and managed to climb back up on top of the rut and get going.

When I hit the second spot, the same thing happened. Only now, the rear end of the Liberty kept wanting to come around the front, even with it in 4wd and with me counter steering.

I ended up getting to the dry spot on the road with the vehicle at a 45 degree angle to the plane of the road.

I'm laying myself on the mercy of the board here.....can't be the Jeep so it must be me! What's the secret to driving in these conditions? I'm getting tired of having to walk 400 yards in to my cabin.

FWIW, I'm running it on Revos that are brand spanking new.
Author:  huntin12ga [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
Try not to stop when in slick conditions, just keep a slow and continous speed. I have the same tires and drove in saturated clay and dry sand at pretty major grades without a problem this past weekend. Momentum is your friend. It could also be that you do not have the limited slip rear diff. If you have the limited slip you will not have as easy of a time spinning and, consequently, sliding.

When you approach an obstacle, envision the angle that you want to approach before you get there. In the Liberty the angle can make or break you...literally.
Author:  KJ-BOL [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
if its muddy you will have some hard time with the revos - always better with MTrs. Whenever we go wheelin and the land is pretty wet, it may need a try or two.
Always 4X4 lo gear, give yourself a little take off space and STEP ON IT.
If you could not make it, don't force it in the middle of the climb - back all the way down and try again
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
He is right. I've got years of experience driving trails/roads just like you describe...and I can tell you right now your #1 problem is the tires. To have control in that kind of terrain you really need a set of MT tires. Doesn't matter which brand. Just get a set of MTs on your Jeep and you will be amazed at how much difference tires alone can make.
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Whats happening is the tires are getting packed with mud and its like you have racing slicks.

This happend alot with me and my stock tires. Usually a LS or locker will make this ALOT worse b/c it allows to rear tires to spin giving you no "side" grip at all. Meaning there are no tires keeping the jeep from sliding side ways. Same goes for driving in rain, if you have a locker or LS then the two rear tires spin and nothing is there to keep the jeep from sliding.

Mud sucks in other words. Already been said but Mt's do help alot in mud.
Author:  Se7enLC [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 3:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
I really want to see a liberty with a set of these suckers on it:

Image

Interco says that they are less noisy than the SuperSwampers and Mudders....but that's like saying less deep than the ocean.
Author:  Eddo [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
Se7enLC wrote:
I really want to see a liberty with a set of these suckers on it:

Image

Interco says that they are less noisy than the SuperSwampers and Mudders....but that's like saying less deep than the ocean.


Those have the be the nosiest tires I have ever heard. Sounds like a helicopter down the road. MTR's and most mud tires are quieter. Maybe they mean quieter than boggers thats it.
Author:  the1jferg [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
You said: "When I hit the second spot, the same thing happened. Only now, the rear end of the Liberty kept wanting to come around the front, even with it in 4wd and with me counter steering"

Cause the rear tire is pushing you while the front tire is almost useless.

Your number 2 problem is weight, Number 3 is tires. Throw another 200lbs in the rear.

Number 1 problem is "lack of traction" you probably don't have a rear locker and the weight shifts back to that one tire with traction not allowing the front tire to do much.

Unlocked 4x4's really do take a hit climbing a hill.

One fella said: "Whats happening is the tires are getting packed with mud and its like you have racing slicks."

This is not as much of a problem as folks seem to think and can be used to your advantage...See, mud sticks to mud allowing for traction.
Author:  TallNorton [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
the1jferg wrote:
Cause the rear tire is pushing you while the front tire is almost useless.

Your number 2 problem is weight, Number 3 is tires. Throw another 200lbs in the rear.

Number 1 problem is "lack of traction" you probably don't have a rear locker and the weight shifts back to that one tire with traction not allowing the front tire to do much.


No rear locker or LSD so I knew that was one problem. The neighbor has a Land Rover with fulltime AWD and he zips up and down there like there's no mud at all.

I'll try adding some weight to the rear.

The good news is that with a couple of pushes from a tractor and some rock, I think I will make it manageable.

I really don't want to have to go to mud tires because of the amount of road riding that I have to do to get down there (200+ miles).
Author:  spoonplugger1 [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Old jeep trick in mud, it's also used by loggers and farmers for their equipment in the rainy Pacific Northwest in our clay soils. Chain up.
This trick has been used by jeepers since they invented the thing. In the old days before they had the variety of equipment they have now, that's how we got around. The more junk we have the more we forget the basics.
The only thing that stops a chained up jeep is to high center it.
Author:  RkyMtnKJ [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
i agree with spoon, put 200lbs. in the back and slap on some chains....make that land rover jealous 8) get back to us once you've tried a few things...i'd love to have some mountain property!
Author:  TallNorton [ Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
RkyMtnKJ wrote:
i agree with spoon, put 200lbs. in the back and slap on some chains....make that land rover jealous 8) get back to us once you've tried a few things...i'd love to have some mountain property!


It's 11 acres of therapy! :lol:
Author:  brpn#1 [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:19 am ]
Post subject: 
TallNorton wrote:
RkyMtnKJ wrote:
i agree with spoon, put 200lbs. in the back and slap on some chains....make that land rover jealous 8) get back to us once you've tried a few things...i'd love to have some mountain property!


It's 11 acres of therapy! :lol:


whats the elevation near your land :) we live in western NC..i have 7.5 acres that are 3500 to 4000ft high.. been all over that but my house is situated at about 3500 and the priviate road up to it is steep.. . i just put it in part-time and just go on up.. even with the stock goodyear never had a problem.. our private gravel road is so messed up.. the hurricanes that flooded our area in 2003-2004 tore up our road.. so many ruts.. washed away areas.. etc.. we are going to try to fix it this spring/summer.. but wintertime.. i had some trouble.. it snowed 8+ inches.. i had no problem going up or down.. then one afternoon the temp dropped in the single digits with high winds.. it completely froze the whole thing at a north facing cutback.. 4-5" packed ice.. well needless to say the neighbor tried to go up in her old cherokee and slicked up the cutback.. when i got home at night.. it looked fine.. started up.. and slide right back down.. almost hitting her vehicle.. i did a 5 point turn lol and then started back down thinking i rather get my KJ down to safety and walk up.. well started back down and the road tips towards a drop off for run off water.. and my KJ slid.. and ALMOST went over.. i bout crapped my pants.. so I KNOW how you felt.. luckily it stopped 3" before going over.. i left it there and let the ice refreeze.. put sticks and backed out the next morning..

you may want to get some chains and put them on when you get there.. and you might want to take the time to put some large gravel in those ruts where water is standing/mudding that area up.. my neighbors have the same problem.. he has a 05 KJ renegade and his wife drives it more.. the ruts are almost a foot down.. mud... they hit it going good and keep their momentum... if they stop for any reason.. they slide or get stuck..
Author:  USAFCOP [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 11:52 am ]
Post subject: 
One trick I learned in Washington Wheeling was real easy, especially if you do not want to use the chains...

Non Stick Cooking spray!! It will be worn off of the tread that touches the ground fairly quickly, so no it does not make your tires slick. It stays in the groves of the tire, and causes the mud to fly out of your tires. I did this on my BFG ATs I had on my F-100 and TJ, and it worked awesome!

Oh and since no one else teased you yet...

Because you Suck!!! :twisted:

LOL!!!!

Gotta learn new tricks and a new rig is all. A limited slip or ARB in the rear at least would help greatly as well.
Author:  InCommando [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
My experience wheeling with people using thornbirds is that they are NOT a mud tire. A friend's sig line for his thornbird-equipped TJ reads " Thornbirds don't BITE, they SUCK." They aren't great in good mud. But most true mud tires leave a lot to be desired on the street. I use Trxus M/T's on my Cherokee, but they have the typical Interco balancing difficulties ( although part of that is each of my 285/75r/16 tires with soft 8's weighs 112#). They also have limited sizes and none that work with a KJ without a lift and a swap to 15" rims.

I have never tried the cooking-spary bit, but I have heard that it works.

A/T's just do not get it done in real mud. A Goodrich M/T, MT/R, or Cooper STT might be a good compromise if you don't want the down-sides of a dedicated mud tire on a DD.
Author:  B.McGee [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Something easy to try - air down a little bit when you get to the start of the trail. Even going to around 25 - 28 psi will help a lot in mud if the tires are jacked up to 35 to get a little better gass mileage on pavement.
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Fri Apr 07, 2006 10:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
B.McGee wrote:
Something easy to try - air down a little bit when you get to the start of the trail. Even going to around 25 - 28 psi will help a lot in mud if the tires are jacked up to 35 to get a little better gass mileage on pavement.


Mine went up to 40 today. I try to keep them at 35psi but it got up to 80 today.

I set them to 35 when it was around 40 outside.
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