LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Layperson's, proper flex/tire formula

When one side hits the (factory) bump stop and the tire just rubs the inner fender wall (plastic), has room on top, and the other wheel is still touching ground.

Anything less is a compromise...open up and say aHHH

Why is it nobody changes the front strut length? Is it because the droop is about the same lifted or not :?:

"can really only be a certain max and min length"

So do the addition of Al's arms make it any better??? Changing the droop and facilitating a longer strut that is??

Why would Rusty sale these on the KJ page, does anyone use them??

http://rustysoffroad.com/Merchant2/merc ... sus_kj_par

KJ page: http://rustysoffroad.com/Merchant2/merc ... sus_kj_par

"If the strut gets any longer it's going to hit the upper A arm. That's why frankenlift struts have a bump-stop on them to prevent damage."

So you lift it to limit it???

Factory is 8" up/8" down, how much more is the lift gettin ya??

Do the CV's play any role in this equation???

As for "longer strut" I'm pretty sure that the struts sold as part of lift kits are longer than factory, I just don't think that you can go any longer than that

I was always wondering if you use the original struts in a spacer lift then get aftermarket struts that are longer do you actually lose lift becuase you have increased space between the strut?

SD-KJ wrote:

I was always wondering if you use the original struts in a spacer lift then get aftermarket struts that are longer do you actually lose lift becuase you have increased space between the strut?

Pretty sure spacer lifts put the spacer above the strut, so they increase the lift and change nothing else. So replacing the original_strut + spacer with new_long_strut should be the same height still, so long as the new_long_strut is as much longer than the original_strut as the spacer added. But you should have more travel with a longer strut than you would with the spacer + original_strut combo.

So after spending enough money to feed a poor third world child for 10 years...The droop is the same?...and, a taller tire and or addition of a stop would give me less up???

Lift it, to limit it?

Author:	the1jferg [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:41 am ]
Post subject:	Layperson's, proper flex/tire formula - no math
When one side hits the (factory) bump stop and the tire just rubs the inner fender wall (plastic), has room on top, and the other wheel is still touching ground. Anything less is a compromise...open up and say aHHH Why is it nobody changes the front strut length? Is it because the droop is about the same lifted or not

Author:	Se7enLC [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Layperson's, proper flex/tire formula - no math
the1jferg wrote: When one side hits the (factory) bump stop and the tire just rubs the inner fender wall (plastic), has room on top, and the other wheel is still touching ground. Anything less is a compromise...open up and say aHHH Why is it nobody changes the front strut length? Is it because the droop is about the same lifted or not I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure this is part of it: If the strut gets any longer it's going to hit the upper A arm. That's why frankenlift struts have a bump-stop on them to prevent damage. It's not like in the rear where you have a separate coil and shock where you can just let the coil decompress and allow the shock to control the droop - the strut is all assembled and can really only be a certain max and min length

Author:	the1jferg [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:38 am ]
Post subject:
"can really only be a certain max and min length" So do the addition of Al's arms make it any better??? Changing the droop and facilitating a longer strut that is?? Why would Rusty sale these on the KJ page, does anyone use them?? http://rustysoffroad.com/Merchant2/merc ... sus_kj_par KJ page: http://rustysoffroad.com/Merchant2/merc ... sus_kj_par

Author:	Se7enLC [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:53 am ]
Post subject:
the1jferg wrote: "can really only be a certain max and min length" So do the addition of Al's arms make it any better??? Changing the droop and facilitating a longer strut that is?? Why would Rusty sale these on the KJ page, does anyone use them?? http://rustysoffroad.com/Merchant2/merc ... sus_kj_par KJ page: http://rustysoffroad.com/Merchant2/merc ... sus_kj_par I think the arms would keep the spring from contacting the arm, so yeah, you could get a little bit more distance in there. I don't know if you could really force that distance to be droop and not lift, though. I don't think I've never seen anybody using a shock conversion on the front, just the normal stud-mounted shock. As for "longer strut" I'm pretty sure that the struts sold as part of lift kits are longer than factory, I just don't think that you can go any longer than that

Author:	the1jferg [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 11:55 am ]
Post subject:
"If the strut gets any longer it's going to hit the upper A arm. That's why frankenlift struts have a bump-stop on them to prevent damage." So you lift it to limit it??? Factory is 8" up/8" down, how much more is the lift gettin ya?? Do the CV's play any role in this equation???

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Author:	Se7enLC [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:
the1jferg wrote: "If the strut gets any longer it's going to hit the upper A arm. That's why frankenlift struts have a bump-stop on them to prevent damage." So you lift it to limit it??? The bump stop is on the side of the strut assembly, so it doesn't limit the extension, just prevents it from swinging too far when things move. Quote: Factory is 8" up/8" down, how much more is the lift gettin ya?? I don't know that a lift actually increases the articulation in the front all that much, if at all. Maybe somebody who measured theirs can chime in? I'm thinking that the geometry of the IFS is fairly limited in terms of how much extension and compression you can get. I find 8" a little hard to believe, since I'm pretty sure I only had 6.5" of ground clearance in the front before I lifted. Quote: Do the CV's play any role in this equation??? Sure do. What role that is, I couldn't tell you, though. If I had to guess, I'd say that since only the suspension gets lifted, the CV axle has to go from point A to point B, where A is a fixed location where the power comes from and B is the wheel. When you lift, that CV has to extend further at a standstill. Basically, the more you lift, the less droop you can have, because that CV can only go down so far. I have no idea if the CV is actually one of the limiting factors or not, but mechanically, it seems like it would be.

Author:	SD-KJ [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 12:53 pm ]
Post subject:
Se7enLC wrote: As for "longer strut" I'm pretty sure that the struts sold as part of lift kits are longer than factory, I just don't think that you can go any longer than that I was always wondering if you use the original struts in a spacer lift then get aftermarket struts that are longer do you actually loose lift becuase you have increased space between the strut? -Nick

Author:	Se7enLC [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:
SD-KJ wrote: I was always wondering if you use the original struts in a spacer lift then get aftermarket struts that are longer do you actually lose lift becuase you have increased space between the strut? Pretty sure spacer lifts put the spacer above the strut, so they increase the lift and change nothing else. So replacing the original_strut + spacer with new_long_strut should be the same height still, so long as the new_long_strut is as much longer than the original_strut as the spacer added. But you should have more travel with a longer strut than you would with the spacer + original_strut combo.

Author:	SD-KJ [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:
Se7enLC wrote: SD-KJ wrote: I was always wondering if you use the original struts in a spacer lift then get aftermarket struts that are longer do you actually lose lift becuase you have increased space between the strut? Pretty sure spacer lifts put the spacer above the strut, so they increase the lift and change nothing else. So replacing the original_strut + spacer with new_long_strut should be the same height still, so long as the new_long_strut is as much longer than the original_strut as the spacer added. But you should have more travel with a longer strut than you would with the spacer + original_strut combo. On mine, the spacer is a poly spacer that goes under the spring where the original ruber pads go on the stock setup. So its in the whole strut/spring assembly. I have the rocky road 2 inch budget spacer lift kit. ( the good one, not the bad one!) -Nick

Author:	the1jferg [ Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:
So, with the lifts and bigger tires the front flexes more, less, or the same as stock?

Author:	the1jferg [ Fri Jun 02, 2006 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:
The books say 8" front wheel travel up, 8" down ? Back to my original question: "Why is it nobody changes the front strut length? Is it because the droop is about the same lifted or not" So after spending enough money to feed a poor third world child for 10 years...The droop is the same?...and, a taller tire and or addition of a stop would give me less up??? Lift it, to limit it?

Author:	Jeepin Al [ Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Rusty's adaptors
To keep the back shocks quiet, and to move them out ever so slightly, you can bolt the shock adaptor in the OEM mount and than attcch the Rusty's shocks to the adaptor. I think you would need to cut the front of the OEM shock mount off. Take a look at the front of the mount, anyone's hole oblong now. That from the added stress from the lift and shock combo. The shock mounts will solve this. My arms with the Frankinlift you will get a little more doward travel, but the spring may hit the body, or the back of the arm may hit the spring, thus stopping downward travel. Upward travel is limited by the new bump stop. Al

Author:	JJsTJ [ Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:
Lift it to get it's belly up off the rocks! Not sure on the travel issue as I have not paid much attention to it. I am happy how my KJ performs on all the different trails I have wheeled it on and it flexes well enough to get the job done. My SFA can't get done soon enough though!

Author:	the1jferg [ Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:
Al, http://rustysoffroad.com/Merchant2/merc ... sus_kj_par I thought this was for the front???

Author:	the1jferg [ Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:
Looks good. First I apologize for the word "Crap" ...I meant "thing a ma jig" I'm trying to figure out the tri-link thing, I think thats a great idea, mine already flexes to the point of factory stop in the rear. The moab rim offset is just enough where you could run a 245/75 where it won't bind against the inner fender plastic or frame thing. Mine is 2 3/4" up in the rear and at bumpstop it has a bit of plastic rub with 245/70's with stock wheels Here is a pic: http://www.thefergusons.us/kj/rub.jpg or mid ways down on this page, thumbnail to the right: http://www.thefergusons.us/kj/kj.htm

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Author:	Jeepin Al [ Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:	In a sense...
they are for the front of YJ's to convert the shocks. I do not know of a "strut" with a barrel end on them, but who knows! The way I look at it its the only place you could use these on a KJ. Ok who is going to call Rusty's to get the correct ans.? Al

Author:	Edwin [ Fri Jun 02, 2006 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:
I think it's a misprint.

Author:	DaveKJ02 [ Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:
the1jferg wrote: So after spending enough money to feed a poor third world child for 10 years...The droop is the same?...and, a taller tire and or addition of a stop would give me less up??? Lift it, to limit it?

Author:	the1jferg [ Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Dave, Front) I mean, nobody here can validate that you get anymore (significant) droop after all this Franky lift crap and with the addition of bumpstops & larger tires can possibly decrease upward flex. (lift to limit) Rear) nomatter the current lift situation, larger than a 245/70 will rub inner fender and create a bind, I don't know about the 245/75 Yet. The plus is the greater flex you get by adding longer rear shocks. To paraphrase someone somewhere. You really ain't getting nothing until you go SFA on the front, just a waste of money.

Author:	DaveKJ02 [ Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:
See, that I can understand. Here's my "Franky" lift experience. In the front, I dont have much "droop" left after the lift. If I jack from the boulder bars, maybe 1.5 inch of droop before the front tire is off the ground and the upper (stock) control arm is up against the bumpstop on the spacer. As for upward stuffing, I think that's where the lift shines. There is certainly some upward stuffing, but the stiffer spring rate actually helps counter the normal drawbacks of wheeling with IFS. What I mean is, planting a front tire on a rock will raise the whole front end on that side more like a solid axle than an IFS (where the body remains level and the one wheel goes up). As for the rear, I cant say where bigger tires will hit. I have 245/75's on Moab rims now (I cant seem to ever remember the backspacing on those). I didnt put in the bumpstops and it will full stuff and not hit the pinch weld. I also know that while the longer shocks allow more downward travel in the rear, I think there is a limit on how far the trilink upper control arm will flex. I know that from when installing the lift and standing on the brake rotor to get the spring in. With no shock, it did hit a "limit" with my fat arse standing on it. I've also wheeled with JeepinAl who made a custom bracket up top on the trilink (and has RE rear control arms) and he dropped the rear to the point of losing a longer spring on his 5.5 inch lift. That said, I think the Frankenlift is worth every penny I paid for it and I'm glad I got it. It's increased the KJ's ability more than I can measure. It's no SFA rig, but it also doesnt cost 1/2 as much as I paid for the whole truck just to convert it over. I'm no expert but I have done more than some mud holes and virtual web wheeling, and even been seen a black trail or two.