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 Post subject: Interesting article on Seafoam - bunk?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:11 pm 
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This is not authored by me. I found it on the Yotatech forums - the link is at the bottom. I've been using Seafoam (and Marvel Mystery Oil) for years with nothing but positive results, but this made me think a little! Enjoy, and let's hear your thoughts on this:

Seafoam, as with many additives, consists of a solvent in a light oil carrier. Iirc in the case of Seafoam the solvent is naphtha. It works OK for dissolving fuel varnish because that's what it's designed to do. The problem with injecting it into your manifold is that 1) It's not very effective and 2) You end up burning the oil carrier. That's why it smokes so badly. Burning oil from any source isn't good for your engine and it especially isn't good for your catalytic converter if you have one.

I prefer using water for de-carbonization and using a top tier gasoline along with a PAE (polyetheramine) based fuel additive a couple of times a year. That'll keep everything including the injectors clean. Gumout Regane (the yellow stuff in the clear bottle), Redline SI-1, and Techron Concentrate are all PAE based.

I said what the consequences are in a recent thread. It was rebuked so I left it up to the members to decide. You have to remember I deal with this sort of stuff all the time so when I run into those who "know better" I back off.

I'll say it again: The product has it's uses but this isn't one of them. Using it this way only lightens your wallet and shortens the life of your cat without benefit. The product is mostly light oil. Where do you think all the smoke comes from? Since when is combusting oil in either the cylinders or converter good? Rich mixtures kill cats so oil won't? If it removes any carbon it'll only be a tiny amount. If all you have is a tiny amount you're doing more harm then good because a small amount works to protect the piston crown. Good thing it comes right back, which makes the "treatment" even more of a waste. If you want to clean excessive carbon use water injection, an overnight piston soak, walnut blasting, or any of the other *proven* methods. Once it's gone keep it at bay by regular use of a PEA based fuel additive.

Aside from all the other tests you could've done a simple way for verifying it's lack of effectiveness is to examine the motor, including the valves, before and after using a borescope. I have a surplus medical instrument I use for those jobs. It was originally designed for, well, lets just say it's been shoved inside far worse places than a motor. I would've suggested doing this except it's already been done by myself and many, many other people who aren't as gullible as most of the public. The results are always the same: it does squat. People who swear by it don't do science. They accept anecdotal evidence from others. Being ignorant is not the same as being a Beavis but imo anyone who uses something without understanding the science behind it, based on what others say who also don't, is.

At least you did some "research" even if it wasn't the best kind. And like most people you did it after the fact. Frankly, if I was going to rely on what others say about a product's effectiveness (and I never do) I'd sure as hell require a lot better than 50% odds before any cash came flying outta my wallet. And even if the product did work I'll point out injecting anything into the brake booster line results in a very poor distribution of it across cylinders. If you feel a need to dump stuff into your engine do it upstream of the plenum, through the throttle body for example.

As I said, the product has it's uses. It's popular with bikers for a reason. I ride also and used Seafoam in the fuel for years. The naphtha in Seafoam works well to clean fuel varnish in my Vulcan's carbs but after a bit of study and testing I found something that does a better job. Since you brought up Techron and I brought up PEA here ya go. It's the same stuff:

PEA is Polyether Amine. It's the active chemical in Techron and a few other aftermarket fuel cleaners. Chevron's Oronite Division is the inventor and world's largest supplier these days:

http://tinyurl.com/y8v5ad

PEA is used in varying amounts in almost every quality gasoline made. The problem is unless you use one from the day an engine is new or rebuilt it takes time to clean things up. That and the amount varies from one fuel brand to another. The way to overcome this is to use a PEA based cleaner a few times a year or with every oil change and a good quality fuel (http://www.toptiergas.com) in between.

Typical fuel cleaners are solvent based and therefore cheap. They don't do much other than make your idle nice and that isn't from any cleaning action. PEA cleaners cost more because PEA is expensive to produce compared to solvents but also far more effective. The leading PEA based cleaners are GumOut Regane (yellow stuff in clear bottle), Redline SI-1, and Techron Concentrate. Each of these products has any where from appx 30-50% PEA with RedLine SI-1 having a slight edge. The cheaper Techron ProGuard also contains PEA but at a lower concentration. Not a good value.

Gumout Large Vehicle Fuel System Cleaner in the gold bottle is also PEA based. It contains the same percentage of PEA as does Regane but in a different carrier. It's 20 oz size makes for a better value if you can find it. Be sure it says "fuel system cleaner" and not "fuel injector cleaner". The bottles look nearly identical but the fuel injector cleaner contains no PEA.

http://yotatech.com/f116/cat-glowing-red-after-seafoam-treatment-138705/

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting article on Seafoam - bunk?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:37 pm 
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LMAO at burning oil in an oil burner. How dare they!!! Poor kitty CAT! :ROTFL: :ROTFL:

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting article on Seafoam - bunk?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:12 pm 
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Gee I guess all the TB cleaners are bad also,since there all pretty much the same chemicals that SeaFoam is.Using to much,like any other chemical,is bad for your cat's and SeaFoam is approved for the use that we all have used it for and is O2 sensor and cat safe.

If your cats are glowing red there is a fuel issue,not caused by SeaFoam.



Oh and one last thing.......................

Your believing something from a toyota forum :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL:


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 Post subject: Re: Interesting article on Seafoam - bunk?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:51 pm 
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That Toyota guy must have mistaken his Afterburner for his CAT. How else can a Toyota run away?

:ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL: :ROTFL:

All kidding aside, I have used Techron and it's competitors products with the same ingredients with great success. BMW used to have a walnut blasting machine in their dealerships to clean the carbon off the back of the intake valves. Techron put an end to pulling intake manifolds for every tune up to clean carbon deposits off the intake valves.
Did I ever pour Techron into the intake, no but I did pour water down into the intake to decarbon the cylinders, and yes it did work.
I addition to the other ways to over heat a cat, having the ignition timing severely retarded can over heat the cat also, but on the newer cars, this would be very difficult if not impossible to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Interesting article on Seafoam - bunk?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:30 pm 
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warp2diesel wrote:
I addition to the other ways to over heat a cat, having the ignition timing severely retarded can over heat the cat also, but on the newer cars, this would be very difficult if not impossible to do.

Yep,

Newer vehicles if you get those dreaded P0172 and P0175 codes(bank1/bank2 rich,same as severely retarded timing) and run that way for over 2 weeks better plan on buying new cats.To much CO and NOX coming out of the cylinders will make a cat glow red


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