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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:51 am 
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Found a ground behind the left headlight. It's directly under a curved power steering cooling metal hose. It was connected although quite rusted. Cleaned it up and put the front end back together.

Started on a test drive but the engine would die with the transmission in Drive and a little pressure on the accelerator. This is the same conditions as when I let a local mechanic fix it. He contacted the Chrysler troubleshooter and discovered a ground not connected.

Monday I'll contact that auto repair shop and see if they'll give me the phone number and case number to Chrysler.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:24 am 
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Went through the rest of the engine compartment seeking out grounds, and found them all, I think. Each needed a little cleaning so I did that. Still it runs the same.

So, I changed direction and started actual troubleshooting. Read the codes and there were a bunch. A set pointing at the EGR, which I have removed but not yet deleted it from the computer. Ignore them.

Several pointing toward the Oxygen Sensor which I don't remember connecting it.
Three pointing me toward the Fuel Temp which I don't have a plug that will fit there.
Two pointing toward the MAF sensor, which is connected.
One pointing toward the coolant temperature sensor.

I ordered a nice kit of multimeter test leads with an assortment of tips. I'll start checking the wiring for the Oxygen Sensor, the MAF sensor and the coolant temperature. This wire harness has been laid aside several times so I'm not surprised that I may have a couple parted connections.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:13 am 
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Posts: 6196
Location: Central GA
Forget the O2 sensor, the 2.8 CRD does not have any.
Forget the MAF code, its only function is to provide information to the ECM for the operation of the EGR valve and FCValve, both components of the EGR system.
The MAF will not affect the running of the engine or will it cause a "limp" mode.

One thought, are you sure you have the correct connector on the MAP sensor? There have be a couple of reports where it got mixed up with one of the other connectors of the same size in that area.

You may want to invest in a better scanner since you are getting an O2 DTC and should not be getting them on this vehicle. :wink:

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Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Sasquatch BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 bld.fan/NAPAHDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:10 pm 
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WWDiesel wrote:
Forget the O2 sensor, the 2.8 CRD does not have any.
Forget the MAF code, its only function is to provide information to the ECM for the operation of the EGR valve and FCValve, both components of the EGR system.
The MAF will not affect the running of the engine or will it cause a "limp" mode.

One thought, are you sure you have the correct connector on the MAP sensor? There have be a couple of reports where it got mixed up with one of the other connectors of the same size in that area.

You may want to invest in a better scanner since you are getting an O2 DTC and should not be getting them on this vehicle. :wink:

Thanks WWDiesel,

I could not find any mention of the MAP Sensor for the diesel engine, only the gas engines. I'll bet you meant MAF.

The scanner I use is the INNOVA 30203, CarScan®-Code. I had understood it was a pretty good unit.

Erased the codes in the ECM and read the codes again. I'm now steady with P0403, P0183, P1140.
    P0403 is EGR system malfunction -- don't care.
    P0183 is Fuel Temp Circuit too high or low -- I'll have to check that.
    P1140 is EGR Airflow Control Valve -- don't care.
Anybody know what the ECM will do when fuel temp is out of range? Does it shut down the engine?

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:07 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:09 pm
Posts: 365
Location: Australia
CaptainDean wrote:

I could not find any mention of the MAP Sensor for the diesel engine, only the gas engines. I'll bet you meant MAF.

The scanner I use is the INNOVA 30203, CarScan®-Code. I had understood it was a pretty good unit.

Erased the codes in the ECM and read the codes again. I'm now steady with P0403, P0183, P1140.
    P0403 is EGR system malfunction -- don't care.
    P0183 is Fuel Temp Circuit too high or low -- I'll have to check that.
    P1140 is EGR Airflow Control Valve -- don't care.
Anybody know what the ECM will do when fuel temp is out of range? Does it shut down the engine?

Dean.

Not sure how many wires are on the fuel temp sensor. If there are only 2, you could just put a suitable resistor between the wires. If you can read the resistance on another filter head it would make it easy.
Just about every temp sensor in cars is a RTK 4700 thermistor. 50c from an electronics store.
I replaced both the temp sensor thermistors in my XJ diesel. Just removed the folded over seal and pulled the thermistor out.

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Australian KJ CRD 2006


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:19 pm 
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Well, now I'm at a loss. The engine won't start although it cranks nicely. I have fuel pressure up into the fuel rail and to the injectors.

Checked continuity through all four injectors and those seem fine. About 10 ohms.

The Auto Shut Down (ASD) circuit is puzzling. It seems I should get voltage through the ASD circuit to run the engine, but why remove power from the A/C Clutch relay and the Viscous Heater relay? Maybe it should be named the Normal Shut Down (NSD) that only unloads the engine in preparation for normal restarting.

Where do I check for troubleshooting instructions & clues to find starting problems ?

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:36 pm
Posts: 6196
Location: Central GA
CaptainDean wrote:
WWDiesel wrote:
Forget the O2 sensor, the 2.8 CRD does not have any.
Forget the MAF code, its only function is to provide information to the ECM for the operation of the EGR valve and FCValve, both components of the EGR system.
The MAF will not affect the running of the engine or will it cause a "limp" mode.
One thought, are you sure you have the correct connector on the MAP sensor? There have be a couple of reports where it got mixed up with one of the other connectors of the same size in that area.
You may want to invest in a better scanner since you are getting an O2 DTC and should not be getting them on this vehicle. :wink:

Thanks WWDiesel,
I could not find any mention of the MAP Sensor for the diesel engine, only the gas engines. I'll bet you meant MAF.
The scanner I use is the INNOVA 30203, CarScan®-Code. I had understood it was a pretty good unit.
Erased the codes in the ECM and read the codes again. I'm now steady with P0403, P0183, P1140.
    P0403 is EGR system malfunction -- don't care.
    P0183 is Fuel Temp Circuit too high or low -- I'll have to check that.
    P1140 is EGR Airflow Control Valve -- don't care.
Anybody know what the ECM will do when fuel temp is out of range? Does it shut down the engine?
Dean.

Dean,
No, I did not mean MAF and I do not have them mixed up!
MAF sensor is only used for EGR operation, it is worthless for engine operation or running otherwise. It is located behind in air cleaner box outlet just before the turbo intake boot.

The MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor is called a multitude of different things, but it's signal input to the ECM is essential and vital for the proper running and control of the 2.8 CRD engine. It is located/mounted on top of the combo intake manifold /valve cover at the rear of the engine.
This sensor allows the ECM to monitor air pressure within the intake manifold and is also used to monitor the incoming boosted intake air temperature.

In the Jeep FSM (factory service manual) you will only see it called or labeled a "Boost Pressure Sensor", but it is more than that, it also provides boosted intake air temperature data to the ECM. You will not see it called or labeled "MAP" sensor in the FSM, not sure why that is but the manufacture of the sensor, Bosch, calls it a MAP sensor.
Bosch calls it a: "Bosch 3.0 Bar T-Map Sensor" / PN 0 281 002 437
Some of the online Mopar vendors list it simply as a "temperature sensor", not sure why that is, but it is incorrect and misleading.

Mopar PN: 68031593AA
Description: AIR TEMPERATURE

If your scanner is giving you false or misleading data, that can be a problem... :banghead:

_________________
Supporting Vendor and Moderator of LOST
05 Jeep Liberty CRD Limited :JEEPIN:
Ironman Springs/Bilstein/Shocks
Yeti StgIV Hot Tune
Sasquatch BatteryTray
No FCV/EGR
Samcos/ProVent
SunCoast/Transgo
Carter Intank-pmp
2mic.Sec.Fuel Filter
Flowmaster/NO CAT
V6Airbox/noVH
GM11 bld.fan/NAPAHDClutch
IronrockArms/wwdieselMount


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 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:57 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am
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Thanks for the clarification on the MAP / Temp / Boost Pressure sensor.

I've decided to test continuity from the ECM connector to the various suspect parts: Fuel solenoid valve, engine coolant temp sensor, MAP / Boost Pressure Sensor.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Hard to find noise -- clinking and clanking
PostPosted: Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:22 am
Posts: 442
I think I've found the culprit for why the engine will not start. So far I think the Fuel Pressure Sensor on the fuel rail is not working. The ECM measures the Fuel Pressure Sensor to determine how much to open the Fuel Solenoid on the high pressure fuel injection pump.

Took off the fuel rail so I can have easy access to the Fuel Pressure Regulator and Fuel Pressure Sensor, and wiring harness & connectors.

Got dark by this time so I'll resume tomorrow after work.

Dean.

_________________
2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L CRD 248
Kona, Hawaii (Big Island) USA

Changed Turbo.
100,000-mile service.
Replaced harmonic balancer.
Noise in front axle or 3rd member - removed loose chain in transfer case.
Rebuilt engine - replaced #3 cylinder, piston, valves, head repair. Removed EGR.
Sheared bolts on TC. Replaced flex plate, TC, bolts.


Top
 Profile  
 
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