For those considering a Detroit Locker: Consider this

tommudd · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:31 am

I do not really see what the big deal is, comparing high end custom stereo equipment to a rear diff is apples and oranges, not the same although I know some will argue on for days that it is or should be. Grinding of the c clips and some on the housings has been the same for 30/40 years, I did it back in the 70s to make things work. Maybe you can get a fiberglass unit to fit perfect but it ain't gonna happen with a huge chuck of iron

Anyone that installs and works on diffs and is worth their weight in beans knows up front some are not just a drop in and will require some work.

I can't even think that this would or should be a problem and take up all these pages. Just do what needs done and enjoy the locker. If you really knew what mechanics have to do to make some things work you may never drive your car again! :wink:

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:34 am

From all the KJ’s sold worldwide, probably less than 1% will ever have a locker. Auto manufacturers aren’t too concerned about designing their axels or differentials to accommodate aftermarket lockers. Similar to Car Audio, Locker companies have to design the best affordable application that will work with our vehicles. And from my narrow learning experiences, the off-road community is a tight group of “well-educated” enthusiasts that know and understand how lockers work and what needs to be done to make them fit. It’s a basic understanding that grinding is the name of the game. Just like car audio enthusiasts know an understand that you will need a $400 dollar amplifier, $60 dollars worth of wiring, and $80 dollars of dynamat to go with those Subs. If you understand the nature of the beast, then it takes the guess work out. Trust me, all this off-road stuff is completely new to me, so I am learning as I go.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:53 am

I guess the point is, instead of telling peeps to grind to make it fit and you kow that's been the case since the 8.25 axle came out, how about shipping the locker with a new C Clip that has the modifications?

If grinding is a chore that mechanics dread to make things fit, wouldn't they gravitate to a manufacturer that has all the parts engineered already? It would seem that a locker is far more complex to make then some c clips. Seems to be a no brainer.

As far as audio equipment and a locker, they are the same thing. Both are bolt on parts, the difference is, one company engineers things to fit, the other expects the mechanics the cheese it in by any means necessary. The fact that one production part is metal and the other fiberglass is irrelevant. Wehn vehicles are built, do the folks on the assembly line need a grinder to fit parts together?

The even bigger issue in this case is no one knows how the locker will work with ESP. I was going to try it and report back. If everything is grinded to holy heck, reversing the installation in the case it doesn't work is not easy (or cheap). Someone else who finds this acceptable will have to be the ginnea pig.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:54 am

I guess the point is, instead of telling peeps to grind to make it fit and you kow that's been the case since the 8.25 axle came out, how about shipping the locker with a new C Clip that has the modifications?

If grinding is a chore that mechanics dread to make things fit, wouldn't they gravitate to a manufacturer that has all the parts engineered already? It would seem that a locker is far more complex to make then some c clips. Seems to be a no brainer.

As far as audio equipment and a locker, they are the same thing. Both are bolt on parts, the difference is, one company engineers things to fit, the other expects the mechanics the cheese it in by any means necessary. The fact that one production part is metal and the other fiberglass is irrelevant. When vehicles are built, do the folks on the assembly line need a grinder to fit parts together?

The even bigger issue in this case is no one knows how the locker will work with ESP. I was going to try it and report back. If everything is grinded to holy heck, reversing the installation in the case it doesn't work is not easy (or cheap). Someone else who finds this acceptable will have to be the ginnea pig.

Inc · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:04 pm

JL Rockies wrote:

I guess the point is, instead of telling peeps to grind to make it fit and you kow that's been the case since the 8.25 axle came out, how about shipping the locker with a new C Clip that has the modifications?

If grinding is a chore that mechanics dread to make things fit, wouldn't they gravitate to a manufacturer that has all the parts engineered already? It would seem that a locker is far more complex to make then some c clips. Seems to be a no brainer.

Nail on the head. Why not add a ground down c clip to every locker you sell in case it is needed. Simple solution it seems like. Can't cost much and would save some headaches.

Since Chrysler obviously screwed the pooch and has different guts on axles that read the same on the outside, I would think locker MFRs would get the idea and take care of the issue.

tommudd · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:09 pm

Everyone has their opinion, just like everyone has a belly button (or most do :wink:

) You are still comparing things that can not be compared but I will not waste time to try and convince you of anything different.
As far as grinding on the C-clips I have seen a few times when no grinding was required but most times it is , just like on the 9 inchers (Ford 9 inch) you have to grind out some of the inside case, its just the way it is.

as far as JL goes would not have anything they ever produced, well maybe in the beginning but not later stuff, so I have a choice as you do.

Inc · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:12 pm

tommudd wrote:

As far as grinding on the C-clips I have seen a few times when no grinding was required but most times it is , just like on the 9 inchers (Ford 9 inch) you have to grind out some of the inside case, its just the way it is.

Yeah, its not always required, the grinding, but the locker MFRs should include a ground c clip with every locker install that may need it. Cheap easy fix. Then they could guarantee it too instead of what Eaton said, and the bs they pulled on JL and the guy installing his locker.

tommudd · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:34 pm

as far as the installer if he was any good at all , he would of installed it and went on, knowing full well that is what has to be done for the install. May of mentioned in passsing oh you know that all or some c-clips need to have some ground off of them to work.
As far as including c-clips, you want them to include 4 or 6 extras of different thicknesses so you can pick one that will work? Not going to happen.
Most on here agree that they know it needs done and don't have any problems with doing it.

:roll:

Oh well you either can have it or not have it, great thing about living in a some what free country

Inc · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:40 pm

Any good installer doesn't just start grinding stuff, a good one would ask first if the owners wants that done and then do it if the owner says to.

I agree adding extra size clips will never happen, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't.

I realize this is the way things are and when I get lockers I am fine with grinding if that is what needs to be done, it just seems like there is an easier way around it.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:42 pm

incubusmike wrote:

tommudd wrote:

As far as grinding on the C-clips I have seen a few times when no grinding was required but most times it is , just like on the 9 inchers (Ford 9 inch) you have to grind out some of the inside case, its just the way it is.

Yeah, its not always required, the grinding, but the locker MFRs should include a ground c clip with every locker install that may need it. Cheap easy fix. Then they could guarantee it too instead of what Eaton said, and the bs they pulled on JL and the guy installing his locker.

Sure they could do that but why increase the price of the locker,which will happen if more parts are shipped with it,when the installer already knows(in most cases) what needs to be done and can do the same thing in about 60 seconds.Then what do you purpose they do with the lockers that require the actual housing to be ground down for clearence? Make a weaker locker?There is a small # of 8.25's that get modified compared to the Ford 9" and the 9" center section needs major modification to fit most lockers and lower gears.The locker company's have done there research and these mods are safe so they can make the strongest possible locker.

And like I said there are many versions of the same axle that would not be cost effective to have the locker company's make a seperate locker for each different version so no modifications are needed.How do you think the TJ Rubicon and JK onwers feel,they need special everything for there diffs,they pay the money and accept it and wheel on.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:44 pm

incubusmike wrote:

Any good installer doesn't just start grinding stuff, a good one would ask first if the owners wants that done and then do it if the owner says to.

Actually they do just start grinding because like it has been said before any gear installer that is worth a darn already knows what needs to be done so why wait? They just get it done without a second thought.

Inc · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:46 pm

Why do people feel that because some people accept things that everyone should.

This argument is pointless and I'm done.

Milner · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 12:59 pm

Way to many variables to include "extra" clips. Each dif is individually shimmed (screw adjusted in some cases) side to side within the housing in order to get the proper mesh between the ring and pinion gears. Just the few thousandths this varies could make a clip to tight to get in. This happens in re-gears with completely stock/oe parts. Your not talking about grinding a lot of material here.

For an experienced installer it is not a chore, it is a non-issue. No different then adding or removing shims to get the gear pattern right....

This really should not even be an issue to discuss. I can only imagine for every gear or locker install done....Do I need to call the customer and OK every shim change I make? :roll:

Please don't be offended, but this really is just not an issue.

tommudd · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 1:10 pm

Thanks TJKJ and Milner even though its a non issue or should be :wink:

I would like people to know that are fairly new that this is common practice and not some shade tree mechanics way of installing lockers, but some want to argue the point till the cows are home.

Well guess what , just saw the cows coming around the hill, they are home now so discussion over! :lol:

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:25 pm

Now, who in the heck is going to install my front and rear 4:10's and ARB lockers?

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:30 pm

The guys over at 4 Wheel parts understood completely and gave me no problems exhanging it for something else I could use:
Power Tank
PIAA off road lights.

So this chapter is closed and like Durangotang said on the other thread; I just wasn't man enough to make a locker work. I guess I have to turn in my shovel now. :oops:

Just so things are clear, my purpose of this post was not to slight mechanics who do what they have to to get parts to fit nor is it to slight those who do not.

I was a babe in the woods when it came to this stuff so this was a real eye opener for me. If I knew up front this was the case, I would not have bought one. If nothing else, people who didn't know now do.

I am all about enriching other peoples lives by sharing my experiences

Guest · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:48 pm

incubusmike wrote:

Why do people feel that because some people accept things that everyone should.

Why should we have to hammer the pinch weld to fit taller tires on 4" backspacing wheels? Why should we have to run wires to our cargo areas to have a subwoofer/amp? I mean, it should already be done for us.
Why should we have to put LOST stickers on our KJs? Why don't they come with them factory? Why doesn't a company make flat-footed size 13 shoes exactly to MY specifications of my big fat booty so I don't have to deal with the crap of you "archies" out there? Why didn't the KJ just come with Rockwells, a 4BT with a turbo bigger than your head, 49" IROKs, and a hydrostatic stator motor at each axle with a hydraulic pump bolted directly to the back of the engine? I mean, why should we have to modify ANYTHING!!! EVER?

It's a fxxxing C-clip, don't get your panties in a wad :roll:

Build a bridge and get over it, or *GASP* don't use their products!

tommudd · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:06 pm

ThunderbirdJunkie
All I can do is :lol:

and snort root beer out of my nose!

Tom

does get to you after a while

LIV42DY · **Posted:** Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:13 pm

I have to say , being new in this forum this has been the BEST topic yet ive read , my hats off to guys, If I put it all together I get a heck of an article out of it. love it!! True definition of Vehicle modifications. Nnow on with the Grinding :lol:

beforedawn · **Posted:** Sat Aug 02, 2008 1:34 am

so let me get this straight... youll cut a hole in the side of your kj for a snorkle but grinding c clips is a sin???

For those considering a Detroit Locker: Consider this

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