That looks like a full 2" spacer- I thought the Frankenlift's were a custom 1" spacer?


FYI - other threads with CV angle photos (and maybe I'm looking at the think side of the spacer)

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5146&highlight=frankenlift++angles+pictures

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=30499#30499

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2005 CRD
stuff
Skeptic quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur

Why is the distance from the knuckle to the bumpstop different on both sides. ? Is the KJ Jacked up on one side?

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“You cannot solve a problem from the same consciousness that created it."

“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.”

No thats is a Franki mine is the same

_________________
“You cannot solve a problem from the same consciousness that created it."

“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.”

As flat and level as I could find. I parked in the center of the street and measured (what the photos show) then I went to a parking and measured in the most level area I could find. As I stated in the earlier post I couldnt find anything that was "true level" around my house. Most all the streets and parking lots around me have some sort of angle or pitch for drainage.

I asked if the upper arms were necessary when purchasing the lift and they told me no. They said I could get the car aligned with the stock ones.

I am in Virginia Beach.

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2005 Liberty Sport
Frankenlift II Premium Lift

No the KJ was not jacked up. I parked in the flattest point of the street and took the measurement on the drivers side by turning the wheel all the way to the right. Then I turned the wheel all the way to the left and took the measurement on the passenger side. When I was under the car I didnt notice any difference between the right and left side. Maybe it is the different angle of the camera that gives that appearance. I didnt pay to much attention to replicating the angle of the camera when taking the photos of each side.

Does this measurement look normal?

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2005 Liberty Sport
Frankenlift II Premium Lift

the picture is better than the actual measurement Im hoping that the street or lot you were on was on a slight angle. Im looking at the distance from the knucle and the bumpstop.the drivers side looks closer than the passenger side and according to the rust marks on the bumpstop the UCA is hitting the bumpstop. Not all KJ's are aloike but a few I have done after the Franki is broken in there is usually aprox 1.5" of space between the knucle and the bumpstop. you are way too close. Im sure you bang those things all the time. doyou?

_________________
“You cannot solve a problem from the same consciousness that created it."

“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.”

ATXKJ

Thanks for the links to the posts. I hadnt seen the first one you linked and it would have been interesting to see how kickit_in4wheel's KJ settled out or if he ran into problems later.

The last link I did see but took that with a grain of salt because of how old the posts were. I would have thought if there were a problem with the angles and such in 2005 it would have been addressed by 2008. Also found that some of the posts no longer had the photos with them. All in all the angle of the CVs on those Frankenlift photos look like mine do now.

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2005 Liberty Sport
Frankenlift II Premium Lift

As I said in my previous post the distance between the upper knucle and the bump stop is what I was looking for. i shuold have thought of the camera angle if that is the case you should be ok. the should be broken in soon just ride it if you dont plan on wheeling it right away find yourself a few speed bumps go up tight on the upstroke and gentle on the downstroke this will compress the sring going gentle on the downstroke will minimize the contact between the UCA and the strut.

_________________
“You cannot solve a problem from the same consciousness that created it."

“Learn from yesterday, live for today, hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning.”

I dont understand your comment about the picture being better then the measurement. A slight angle would be correct but again to the eye it was as close to level as I could get. If you look at the photo of the whole car on the link below. The driveway is on an incline (from front to rear) but is level from right to left (Passenger to Drivers). If that is okay to take the measurements from I can do it again tomorrow. I didnt take the measurements in the driveway because of the incline

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3244177

So I should have about 1.5" between the knuckle (upper balljoint mounting) and the bumpstop?

Should the wheels be straight when taking that measurement? Do you think with having the wheels turned all the way to one direction it caused this appearance?

I am not sure if those marks are from hitting the bumpstops while driving or because the car has been jacked off the ground the past few days. I have an appointment on Wednesday to get the new axle assemblies installed and thought I would wipe everything clean and check it shortly after to see if the marks come back. If they do I guess I need to shop of UCAs

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2005 Liberty Sport
Frankenlift II Premium Lift

I now understand the measurement you are looking for. I have a larger image of the photos I posted and there is no way I have 1" to 1.5" of clearance between the bumpstop and the knuckle. If anything I have .5".

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2005 Liberty Sport
Frankenlift II Premium Lift

Got the vehicle back from the shop that installed two new NAPA axle assemblies and now I have CV thumping noise when the suspension extends. I have been on the phone with Quinn and he is suggesting that I do an alignment and showed me how to do it. He is concerned that my LCA are pushed all the way to the center of vehicle and could possibly be creating a greater angle then normal. He walked me though how to check my alignment with the front end on jack stands. It shows that the front of the tires are in more then the back of the front tires and that the bottom of my tire needs to come out 1/4".

While the car was on the stands I tried to spin the wheels to see if they spun freely and could spin the tire a bit without effort (not one full rotation) and then it would stop. I had to put more pressure (not alot) to get it to move beyond that point. Both sides show this result.

Quinn said he had no experience with the NAPA replacement axle assembly and couldnt comment.

I am planning on adjusting the car tonight and was wondering if anyone else have any thoughts on what I should look for while I am under there? The shop was extremely confident that the inner CV housing are properly snapped into place.

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2005 Liberty Sport
Frankenlift II Premium Lift

Very interesting this, I've been cracking my brain over your problem the last couple of days and still haven't figured out why you brake CV's...

Now I somehow cannot get a this pic any bigger but you seem to be lower in the rear then on the front.

Do you carry any recovery gear or anything heavy in the trunk?

I ask this because that's what mine looks like ( sortof, I'm nowhere near your hight, crd limits....) when I load up the trunk with 400 lbs of firewood...



What engine does your libby have, the 3.7? Or the 4 banger? Maybe stupid question because I don't know if the 4 cyl engine ever made it into the 4x4 Libby but that pic looks like a car someone took the engine out of, then pushed it back on the driveway.



Not entirely true imo, if you look at this pic you can see that the outer CV is pointing UPWARD limiting its movement even more. So if your spindle is at an inward angle caused by the limitation of the OEM UCA that would also explain the lack of space between the spindle and the bumpstop on the strut...but...then your tires would also have a positive camber, top end more inward then the bottom...I guess you would have seen that.

Sorry guys, jet another edit: you may not even notice this if your kj sits level, but when the suspension extends and the OEM UCA pulls the spindle inward even more it might be possible your CV binds...So if you jack it up and let it droop you should be able to see this happening...

I think that Al's arms could do a lot here.

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Cherokee 2,5 CRD: sold - Wrangler TJ 2.5: gone - Touareg V10 TDI: new toy

Solo Liberty en Español: Jeepliberty.es

it does look high for sure sitting there

do me a favor and post what the measurement is from the middle of the hub/wheel to the bottom of the flare
Thanks

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

Well seems that I just must have bad luck.......

I have been on the phone with Quinn for hours the past few days trying to resolve this. Quinn had a concern over a photo of the front end that showed the alignment bolts for the LCA. He was concerned that the LCAs looked like they were pushed all the way to the center of the vehicle causing more angle to happen on the CV joints and thus bind. Quinn educated me on how to align a car in the driveway. So as I moved the LCA out towards the middle of the adjustment space I noticed that my CVs now didnt bind anymore. Unaware at the time that I was using a crappy level to align my car with.... I thought I was on the way to success. Once I realized I had a bad level and started using a good one I realized that the only way to properly align my car was to bring the LCA back to the center of the car again. It appears that when I move my LCA from the middle of its adjustment space towards the center of the car I now start to get the correct level in the tire but now my CVs bind. If I leave the adjustment towards the middle where the CVs wont bind then I get an issue where the bottom of my tire is kicked out and in order to keep the bottom LCA adjustment in place I would have to kick the top of the tire out .25". I was wondering that maybe an UCA would offer me that. Another interesting note was that with the LCA sitting in the middle of its adjustment range the knuckle where the UBJ is now hitting the bumpstop of the strut. Seems like I just cant win.




Quinn was questioning the new NAPA axle assemblies thinking that maybe they might be longer then normal. Unfortunately I dont have the knowledge and lack the tools to do this in my driveway at my current location.

I then asked Quinn if there was someone in my area or around me that he would trust to properly diagnose the car and identify the problem. A person he felt comfortable with was Marlin at JeepinbyAl. Unfortunately he is 6hrs and 300 miles away. I will have to drive the car to him because I am unable to tow. I did spend time with him on the phone and he asked me to take that measurement from the center of the wheel to the top of the wheel well and I was sitting at 22 1/8" - 22 1/4". He told me that number was indicating I had a 4" lift installed and at that range and above CVs would start to bind unless I got a cleared axle shaft installed.

When I lifted the car I measured from the ground to the pinch weld both front and back

Prelift
Front: 13
Rear: 13.5

Post lift
Front: 17.5
Rear: 17 7/8

Now a couple of months later I am sitting at 17" all around. According to Quinn these are all great numbers and the angles on the CVs are fine. There is no lift in the clevis.

I feel that maybe these springs are just too much for my car. I dont know why it works for others and not me but I hardly see the car settle into the suspension when I let it down off the jack stands. If I sit on the car and jump up and down I barely can move the front end. I dont know if this is normal or not.

To answer the previous question about the front being high and the back low... the drive way does have an upward angle to it so the car isnt level but there is no weight in the back of the car...its empty. I agree the car looks high... higher then I thought it would for a 2.5" lift. I understand my car might have suffered from sag.

Marlin said he was going to go over my photos I sent him, talk to Quinn and get back to me Friday. I am at a complete loss because I can't use the car in the shape it is in at the moment and with buying new axle assemblies and paying for install labor and the previous set of boots I am already into this at half the cost of the lift.

Please any thoughts or previous experience would be welcome. I appreciate the time and attention those that have posted already have given. If anyone would like larger photos please PM me an email address and I will be happy to send them

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2005 Liberty Sport
Frankenlift II Premium Lift

Ok some great information here now,
Quinn is correct about where to move the LCAs out to, which helps so yes the 4.5 UCAs from Als would help you since you will be moving the top of the tire out some which will allow them to move the bottom out as well, so looks like Als 4.5 arms maybe in your near future. With the bottom kicked out it would hit the bumpstop on the strut due to the top being at the stock location. From what you have provided tonight I would say that the UCAs would take care of most of or not all of the problems. Not sure why some get by with the stock arms and you haven't but..it seems to me they would help you a lot. Where are you by the way?

As far as how high it is, I don't have a Frankenlift but do have OME coils and a couple of extras and am at 22 5/8 or so and am not having any problems at all. I do have the 4.5 arms though. A 4 inch from JBA's does sit about 23 inches.
also could you send a larger picture of what you posted here I will PM you my email address I want to compare how it looks to others I have done and mine.
Thanks

Tom

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MUDD'S MOTORSPORT'S We do IFS lift installs ,
03 OVERLAND EDITION /Kilby-Skidrow-Mopar-4XGuard skids/ 2.5 inch TOTAL CONTROL JBA coilovers -JBA Arms/MOABS-31 FALKEN WILDPEAK AT3W / 4.10's etc, 04 Kilimanjaro Edition loaded, plus 05 KJ limited

Here is my parts from my original franki install. I had some issues too but have since resolved them with configured jba 4.5 a-arms. I found even with the a-arms i had to reverse the bolt direction on them in order to clear the spring - was getting loud thunk on droop. Not so bad now. I don't even think about it anymore. At first it seemed something was wrong with my lift - too much lift. These are things i did that helped me:

* got an alignment right after some off-roading. I could barely drive straight on the road. That's how out of whack my alignment was. I could not drive faster than 50.
* gen 4.5 a-arms with nuts turned up. gen 4 arms i had previously but had issues with spring contact. jba shipped 4.5 replacements for free.
* i took the struts out and tightened the loose strut nut on top. It seems that sometimes they are shipped with loose nuts. Mine was one of them.
* using them off-road and such to break them in They were very stiff. The first time to get them in the LCA was a nightmare. After the last time it was easy as pie as they were loosened up.

Have you gotten a professional alignment done yet? If not you need to since those cam bolts on the LCA's are how you set camber and caster in the KJ and you can not do a alignment in your driveway on a KJ due to those 2 bolts controlling 2 different measurements.Neither witch you can accurately measure without the proper machine,same goes for toe.

Just what I was thinking.....

_________________
Cherokee 2,5 CRD: sold - Wrangler TJ 2.5: gone - Touareg V10 TDI: new toy

Solo Liberty en Español: Jeepliberty.es

Some background on me.....

I am in my mid thirties have some tools and know how to do tune ups, tire rotations, shock replacement, brakes, .... minor things. When Quinn told me I could do an alignment in my drive way and explained how I was okay with handling that too. I dont think I have the capability to remove the strut assemblies in my driveway, by myself with the vehicle on jack stands and no air tools. This is why I have to take the vehicle to the local offroad shop to get this job done. When I installed the lift I did it in Buffalo, NY with a mechanic friend that had a garage with lift, air tools and everything else to do the job properly.

When we were looking at this alignment issue last night and the night before it seemed to me that if there was a way to kick out the top of the tire that maybe that would relieve the stress on the outter CV housing thus enabling me to move the LCA out and possibly relieving stress on the inner. To my knowledge the only way to make that happen is with the modified UCAs, but I am not sure it will kick the top out 1/4" It appears that my Liberty is ridding a fine line between workie and no workie.

Looking at the UCA it looks like two bolts at the top that are accessible through the engine compartment and the LBJ bolt in the knuckle. Seems easy enough but from readying on here ... apparently there is difficulty to this?!?!?!? Also I am concerned with the previous comments about knocking noise?!?!?!? If I put these UCAs in am I now introducing other problems?

To answer your question on location... I am located in Virginia Beach, VA

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2005 Liberty Sport
Frankenlift II Premium Lift

I got an alignment done 20miles (give or take) after the lift was installed. We went to a place that drove it on the lift and did the computerized alignment. He had to move the LCAs all the way to the center of the car to get the alignment to come in the outter edge of passing. He really needed to move it in a tiny bit further to make it dead on but there was no adjustment left. The alignment shop's suggestion was since the lift was so knew to continue to drive the car and let the suspension settle and then get the car re-aligned to see if it produced a different result. I thought I would give it some mileage and time to let this suspension really settle prior to taking it back since I was only doing city and highway driving. I really wish that I would have thought to turn the front tires and check for binding just after the lift was installed. Since I didnt feel anything or hear any thumping while driving I didnt think anything of it. Interesting thing is that when I took the car home from the shop the other day I only noticed the thumping when the suspension moved. If the car could stay level on the road I had no thumping.

Quinn told me that putting jack stands under the LCAs by the LBJ would be the same as the car sitting on the tires. So under that condition I could feel that the CVs where binding just by hand spinning the tire. This leads me to believe that I wouldnt have been able to feel a slight bind of the CV's while driving. Makes me wonder if during my trip from Buffalo to Virginia Beach that the OEM CVs were binding but just couldnt feel it while driving... thus causing the CV boots to rip and the stress cracks in the housing.

In regards to performing an alignment in the driveway... he explained the cams and toe in and out... basically he had me using a level on certain points of the rims to deal with the cams and told me how to measure the tires for toe in and out. He said that is how he aligns every liberty that comes through his shop.

Guys... sorry for lengthy posts ... I am just trying to get as much information out there to solve this problem and I do appreciate the efforts to help out.

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2005 Liberty Sport
Frankenlift II Premium Lift