LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Rusty's Upper Control Arms

fdezone wrote:

Someone stole my thunder!......

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=10994

....And Al's idea. I would rather support one of Our own by buying Al's, so I am glad I did.

Are you guys saying that Rustys copied the arms?? I had the idea of building upper and lower control arms for my Liberty in 2002. At that time I asked Rustys if they where going to build the arms for the Liberty. I'm not saying that they didn't copy Al's arms but they told me back in 2002 that they were going to work on it. I'm not taking sides but everything I've ordered from Rustys has been well built and I've been very happy with his products. Seems to me it's better for everyone if we have options of getting parts from different places as long as we keep the interest in producing the parts and accessories for the Jeep Liberty. Is it still copying if they use a different ball joint or make the arms of different materials? I believe to get a patent you have to define and give an exact description of a product so that no one can reproduced unless they change some part in that product. All that would take is a different grade of steel or slightly different bend in the arm. I think it's great that Al built the control arms and have recomended them to anyone who lifts a Liberty. But I don't believe we ought to down Rustys for producing a different control arm.

A natural "fix" for our UCA would be something longer with a replaceable/greasable joint. It would be silly to think that there would not be more than 1 design out there. JeepinAl just happened to be the first one that addressed the problem and designed the first tried and true answer. He has also had more input from customers and his own testing to make improvements, including a stronger UBJ Mount and tacking the Ball Joint in the UCA since intial tolerances are so tight.

I would like to see JeepinAl make a "beefy" lower control arm that sets the LBJ at a better angle on a lifted KJ and has a design that doesn't hang down as low as the stock LCA.

Author:	fdezone [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Rusty's Upper Control Arms
Prototype shown. Production units shipping late August 2006. Call for pricing. Beef up the wimpy stock units with Rusty's Upper Control Arms built with .250 wall 1.25” DOM tubing. Rubber bushings at the uni-body frame and race inspired uni-ball mounting the arm to the knuckle.

Author:	fdezone [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:
Someone stole my thunder! http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=10994[/url]

Author:	JJsTJ [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:
fdezone wrote: Someone stole my thunder!...... http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=10994 ....And Al's idea. I would rather support one of Our own by buying Al's, so I am glad I did.

Author:	Jeepjeepster [ Fri Aug 04, 2006 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:
JJsKJ wrote: fdezone wrote: Someone stole my thunder!...... http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=10994 ....And Al's idea. I would rather support one of Our own by buying Al's, so I am glad I did. True, i cant wait to see their prices though. Not that I would ever go against Al or anything.

Author:	kolesy [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:39 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: ....And Al's idea. I would rather support one of Our own by buying Al's, so I am glad I did. That's total B S Come on guys that is like saying that things made after market for your vehicles were stolen from someone, considering a lot are so similar!! Be happy we have another company keeping us in mind and giving us more options!!!!!!

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Rusty's Upper Control Arms http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11128	Page 1 of 2

Author:	RedJeepCRD [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:25 am ]
Post subject:
I posted this once, I'll post it again. Ok, question guys, Are you guys saying that Rustys copied the arms?? I had the idea of building upper and lower control arms for my Liberty in 2002. At that time I asked Rustys if they where going to build the arms for the Liberty. I'm not saying that they didn't copy Al's arms but they told me back in 2002 that they were going to work on it. I'm not taking sides but everything I've ordered from Rustys has been well built and I've been very happy with his products. Seems to me it's better for everyone if we have options of getting parts from different places as long as we keep the interest in producing the parts and accessories for the Jeep Liberty. Is it still copying if they use a different ball joint or make the arms of different materials? I believe to get a patent you have to define and give an exact description of a product so that no one can reproduced unless they change some part in that product. All that would take is a different grade of steel or slightly different bend in the arm. I think it's great that Al built the control arms and have recomended them to anyone who lifts a Liberty. But I don't believe we ought to down Rustys for producing a different control arm. Wes

Author:	kolesy [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:29 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Are you guys saying that Rustys copied the arms?? I had the idea of building upper and lower control arms for my Liberty in 2002. At that time I asked Rustys if they where going to build the arms for the Liberty. I'm not saying that they didn't copy Al's arms but they told me back in 2002 that they were going to work on it. I'm not taking sides but everything I've ordered from Rustys has been well built and I've been very happy with his products. Seems to me it's better for everyone if we have options of getting parts from different places as long as we keep the interest in producing the parts and accessories for the Jeep Liberty. Is it still copying if they use a different ball joint or make the arms of different materials? I believe to get a patent you have to define and give an exact description of a product so that no one can reproduced unless they change some part in that product. All that would take is a different grade of steel or slightly different bend in the arm. I think it's great that Al built the control arms and have recomended them to anyone who lifts a Liberty. But I don't believe we ought to down Rustys for producing a different control arm. /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ Thank you!! Yeah i seen you post this before in the other thread containing these arms. Glad someone else is on the smae page.[

Author:	MoladoGuy [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:29 am ]
Post subject:
More options means it is becoming a noticeable market for the Liberty. It also forces prices to be steady, parts to be built good, and if someone makes you mad you can leave for the comp.

Author:	JJsTJ [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:46 am ]
Post subject:
Don't get me wrong, I Am glad someone else is making products for the KJ. I am just more apt to support a fellow lost member who Also sells the same item. I wish anyone who wants to make good products for the KJ lots of success.[/b]

Author:	DarbyWalters [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:
A natural "fix" for our UCA would be something longer with a replaceable/greasable joint. It would be silly to think that there would not be more than 1 design out there. JeepinAl just happened to be the first one that addressed the problem and designed the first tried and true answer. He has also had more input from customers and his own testing to make improvements, including a stronger UBJ Mount and tacking the Ball Joint in the UCA since intial tolerances are so tight. I would like to see JeepinAl make a "beefy" lower control arm that sets the LBJ at a better angle on a lifted KJ and has a design that doesn't hang down as low as the stock LCA.

Author:	jason thompson [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:23 pm ]
Post subject:
well I too feel that you should support the local guy or the "little man" but if rustys makes a good product at a good price then why not? I called them ,rustys, yesterday about som stuff for my TJ and asked about the upper arms but he would not give me a price? I also asked about the rear upper and lower and i was told that they were in the process of making lowers that would retain the stock sway bar and also a they were working on a new upper tri link all this is good news for the KJ market

Author:	Guyute1210 [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:03 pm ]
Post subject:
DarbyWalters wrote: A natural "fix" for our UCA would be something longer with a replaceable/greasable joint. It would be silly to think that there would not be more than 1 design out there. JeepinAl just happened to be the first one that addressed the problem and designed the first tried and true answer. He has also had more input from customers and his own testing to make improvements, including a stronger UBJ Mount and tacking the Ball Joint in the UCA since intial tolerances are so tight. I would like to see JeepinAl make a "beefy" lower control arm that sets the LBJ at a better angle on a lifted KJ and has a design that doesn't hang down as low as the stock LCA. I agree with darby 100% and still plan on getting Al's UCA's when I have the $$. <hint>I would also like to see Al design a LCA too... </hint>

Author:	fdezone [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:22 pm ]
Post subject:
Did Al copy his Upper A-Arms from All-Pro? I don't think so. It's a basic concept. You can't patent that. There's no patent that I'm aware of for long arms or Y-Links. Everyone's making them. Listen, some folks will continue to buy Al's arms because he's a fellow KJ owner, he developed it first, he sought input from the community and made modifications accordingly. As far as I know, he has never had a single complaint. That said, others might opt to buy from Rusty's because they're a larger, more reputable company. It all comes down to the material, options and even customer service. This is all good for the consumer. More options, availability, lower prices, etc.

Author:	fdezone [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:
Hey, after taking a closer look, what do you think of those A-Arms for Tacos? Couldn't we develop something similar or are they protected by a patent? ALL-PRO 4130 CHROMOLY UPPER A-ARMS KIT WITH ZERKS ($499/pr) All-Pro Off Road's Upper A-Arm kit is constructed of 4130 Chromoly material. These arms are TIG welded, not MIG welded like competing brands. A 1" uni-ball provides maximum articulation for the Upper A-Arm without binding up like the factory ball joint. These arms are designed to correct suspension geometry on lifted applications, and now have zerk fittings for easy bushing lubrication. Or this one by Total Chaos Fabrication TC developed the UCAs to add caster to the suspension when aftermarket coil over shocks and other lifts are installed. This will increase overall handling and aids in the alignment of the vehicle. Built using all chromoly tubing and 1" Teflon lined Uniballs, these stock length upper control arms simply bolt to the existing factory a-arm location and pivot on urethane bushings. TC has manufactured a press in spindle adapter and uses a 9/16" grade 8 bolt. This complete kit includes heat treated hi-misalignment spacers and zinc plated end washers. Zirk fittings are included in all pivots and the kit comes complete with F911 hardware, urethane bushings, inner sleeves and install instructions.

Author:	JJsTJ [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:
Oh hell yes! Gimme a set of lowers like that for my wifes KJ Right Now! Maybe if enough of us had money in hand we could get a company to develop a sweet set of lowers? Hmmmm.....gonna have to be After my SFA is done though.

Author:	fdezone [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:
Notice the extra gusseting on all 3 points of the TC UCA's. They look pretty stout. Full length coilovers would be cool. I hate Jeep's design to have strut forks straddle the CV axles. New LCA's could be designed to remedy this issue.

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Author:	Myke [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:
That looks cool as hell.

Author:	fdezone [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:
I sent All-Pro & TC an email to see if they had any interest in developing components for the Liberty. You have to spark interest somehow.

Author:	DarbyWalters [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:57 pm ]
Post subject:
Upper and Lower CAs with a nice coilover like that above...coilover in the rear would be nice too. Total Chaos builds some sweet stuff...

Author:	fdezone [ Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:
Rusty's UCA's will have "rubber bushings at the uni-body frame and race inspired uni-ball mounting the arm to the knuckle." Sounds like the All-Pro UCA's for Tacos. Add a zerk fitting and extra gusseting and it'll really beef things up. Oh, and address the bump stop issue. How about new extended bump stops that will not interfere with the UCA's. And I suppose the gussets around the uni-ball would have to go beneath or around the outside to prevent hitting the strut prematurely.