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TJ vs KJ
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11735		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ranger31 [ Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  TJ vs KJ
OK, so here's the question! I am a 7 year TJ owner, and am on my 2nd Rubicon, and I am very seriously considering the purchase of a CRD KJ Sport. Who can tell me, or give me, some good reasons/info on whether or not I am truly going to enjoy the 4x4 capability of the KJ? I am searching for all kinds of pro's and con's and don't mind any input.

Oh, and this will be my new primary wheelin' vehicle if I decide to make the purchase. :? [/b]
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wow, that comparing apples to oranges. They are two totally different rigs. The rubicon with its Dana 44 axles can take ALOT more beating when it comes to spinning and jumping. Idk if you know or not, but the front Dana30a if prone to explode if alot of spinning and grabbing takes place. Bigger tires will only make this worse. A stock kj will be no where near as good as a stock rubi offroad. A good lift(2-2.5in), rear locker, tires, rocker rails, skids if it doesnt come with them, and maybe a front truetrac will get it in the ball-park of a stock rubi. You will really love the torque and mpg of the crd though. :wink: You better hurry if you do want one. They've stopped producing them and they are going fast from what i read. :)
Author:  Burchie [ Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah... No real way to compare. It's like comparing a airplane and helicopter. They both fly, but you can do different things in each. Each jeep has it's pro and cons to on road and off road capabilities and comforts.

And..... If you already have a '05 Rubi and an '07 Commander, why would you want a KJ? Sounds like you got the best of both worlds right now.
Author:  ranger31 [ Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
I know that I am comparing very different vehicles, however, because I am considering using the KJ as my primary wheeler, I thought I would try to invite some conversation from some folks who may have switched from TJ's to KJ's.

I know that the 30's explode like fire crackers, but, and as you mentioned, that can be corrected with gearing change.

I really just want to know, or maybe I am just trying to convince myself, that the KJ will provide a very good amount of off-road enjoyment and a little carnage...

btw, I am holding a CRD in reserve, I run a Jeep store. :D
Author:  ranger31 [ Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Burchie wrote:
yeah... No real way to compare. It's like comparing a airplane and helicopter. They both fly, but you can do different things in each. Each jeep has it's pro and cons to on road and off road capabilities and comforts.

And..... If you already have a '05 Rubi and an '07 Commander, why would you want a KJ? Sounds like you got the best of both worlds right now.


I love that little diesel... 8)
Author:  Burchie [ Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Do some reading over here.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=69
Author:  Burchie [ Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
ranger31 wrote:
I love that little diesel... 8)


I do too. But the state of California doesn't
Author:  DaveKJ02 [ Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
What size tire you running on your TJ? You'll barely fit 32s with the GA lifts out there today.
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
No one ever said anything about gearing? Putting 4:10 gears in a libby is alittle harder than it sounds. You must either buy from a Jeep dealer(big bucks) or find a 4banger libby in a junk yard. A truetrac is a Limited slip based system. Im sure you will get tons of offroading joy out of it. You must put some money in it first.

Also, I wouldnt go over a 245/75/16 on the tires. :wink:
Author:  alljeep [ Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
ranger31 wrote:
I know that I am comparing very different vehicles, however, because I am considering using the KJ as my primary wheeler, I thought I would try to invite some conversation from some folks who may have switched from TJ's to KJ's.

I know that the 30's explode like fire crackers, but, and as you mentioned, that can be corrected with gearing change.

I really just want to know, or maybe I am just trying to convince myself, that the KJ will provide a very good amount of off-road enjoyment and a little carnage...

btw, I am holding a CRD in reserve, I run a Jeep store. :D


I shopped the TJs and unlimited TJs for over 1.5 years before I gave up on the TJ and got the CRD. Way more vehicle for the money. It's awsome to hear the turbo diesel screaming up hills off-road. The torque is unbelieveable and the visibility from inside a KJ, when off roading, is very good.

Unless you like to hard core rock crawl (which I hate) the CRD will more than impress you for the long term ownership experience.
Author:  KW AV8R [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:31 am ]
Post subject: 
A kj properly outfitted will take you just about anywhere with a little patience. That said, you really have to adopt a completely different wheeling style when changing from a TJ to a KJ. The nicest thing about the KJ is that you can drive long distances to the trails and still be comfortable. The biggest drawback (other than the fragility of the drivetrain) is the lack of aftermarket support. This is slowly starting to change but it's taking an inordinately long time. If the aftermarket support was there we might be able to resolve the drivetrain problems (ie: swap in a different front diff). One other thing you would have to get used to is other Jeepers not taking you seriously until you prove to them personally that a KJ is worthy of the Jeep badge.
Author:  AZScout [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:26 am ]
Post subject: 
I think you will like the CRD best when coming home after a 8-10 hr trail trip and you are beat. The ride is smooth and there is no wind noise. Granted, a top down option is nice...but perhaps not all the time. Plus you'll be getting at least 25mpg on the hwy coming home. In regards to wheeling, properly equipped as described above, unless you are doing some serious class 5 trails, the CRD will take you anywhere. Your lines may be different but you will still probably get to the top. The biggest difference I can think of is with a SFA, you go up an obstacle diagonally to put pressure on the downward traveling wheel for traction. On the CRD, you tend to hit obstacles head on to get the leverage of both tires due to the IFS. Oh, and don't downplay the weak front diff...been there, done that...it suxs.

Hope this helps.

Dave
Author:  Pablo [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  Consider the new Wrangler
The new wrangler for export has the same CRD, maybe you should wait, as I am sure they are going to import it to the USA next year or some time. A 4-door wrangler with a CRD would be mean. I love my Libby CRD though, but it has its high-maintenance issues. On the bright side, a libby CRD is different. Not too many people are going to show up with one at the trail head-- or the mall. I guess I like being an odd ball, too.
Author:  rubicondon53 [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Hi all,, new to the board, I own a rubi, and a CRD, two different things, I would not dream of wheelin my crd the way I do the rubi, but,, am considering outfitting the crd for off road, as we take long range excursions, ie, eastern canada, with western states provinces and alaska in our future. My wife is currently pulling 30mpg @ no more than 70 mph. The crd already has 4 11s, the only thing left to do is lift, lock, and beef up the dana 30. Seems to me if you lock and load the crd, it would make a suitable off road machine. Most rubi owners are unaware of its capabilities, so the thing for you to do, is to ask yourself the obvious; Do I really use my rubi for what it was intended? Be honest about that question and the answer to your dilemma will present it self! 8) 8)

laterondon
Author:  PitViper [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:22 am ]
Post subject: 
stick with the rubi for off road.
Author:  krazz1e [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:10 am ]
Post subject: 
keep the TJ. The CRD is sweet engine though, but going from a ruby to a stock KJ, well your in for alot of upgrades just to get to stock from on a ruby.

If for wheeling, stick with the TJ.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think rubicondon53 touched on the answer but I'll restate it
The right vehicle for you depends on what you intend to do with it.
The Rubicon and Liberty each have good and bad points, I went to the dealer to buy a Rubicon and drove home in a Liberty - I like to drive mountain passes and they're 900 highway miles away, so the CRD was a better choice (I love the diesel engine). However if you seriously use the Rubicon's offroad ability - you won't be happy in a Liberty.
Author:  jason thompson [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 6:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
I could not agree more with the others
I have an '02 tj slightly bigger than stock and locked
My wife has a '03 KJ bone stock
we took them both to a jeep jamboree last year on the same "moderate" trail both stock ,open diffs and all, and had to park the KJ cause we kept getting high centered this trail was rated 3-4 dry and 4-5 wet it was wet but it was not the hill climbs that hurt but the lack of ground clerance
That being said if you wheel any kind of rocks in your rubi then I would say NO to the KJ it will end up beat all to heck but if all you wheel is wooded trails
with hill climbs then go for it
But it will need to be lifted and locked for any real trails ,a real trail for me has to be rated 5+ or I get bored
Author:  Tokyojoe [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Not sure how to compare your rating system (1-5+) but we do hit the big rocks out here in Colorado. No issues as long as you are:

lifted
armored

maybe bigger tires

We don't have to be locked but it does help in who feels like they can do a crazy route or just the hard route.

I used to cringe at the sound of my skids banging rocks, but I am used to it now. That is what they are there for and you know you are protected.

Can you mod the Rubi into a bigger beast and then do more crazy trails? Yes.

Can you mod the KJ into a bigger beast and then do more crazy trails? Yes and no. The KJ is limited in growth (bigger lift and tires) but it can perform great on those crazy trails (talk to USAFCOP).

We are riding trails with XJ's that have 35's and we do fine and sometimes they struggle more than us.

Remember, it is more the driver than the rig. The bigger the rig the more you think you can do but really can't.

How much is a loaded Rubi compared to a KJ? A lot more. Your full mods (armor, lift, locker in rear, steel bumpers front and back) to the KJ will still be cheaper than a Rubi.

Rubi (not the unlimited) on the Jeep website is $28590
KJ Sport on the Jeep website is $23685

You have almost $5000 in mods to the KJ to catch the baseline Rubi. You can do a lot of mods to the KJ. Possibly get the future 4" lift that we expect in 2007 from a couple of vendors that say they are going to work on it.

KJ = more comfortable on and off-road, less dust and dirt to breath in, expected to fail and a sense of pride when showing others that a KJ "can do." :lol:
Rubi = still bigger mod capable, the open air freedom, expected to perform well - but embarrassing :oops: when you fail......and a KJ succeeds. :twisted:
Author:  jason thompson [ Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Tokyojoe wrote:
Not sure how to compare your rating system (1-5+) but we do hit the big rocks out here in Colorado. No issues as long as you are:

lifted
armored

maybe bigger tires

We don't have to be locked but it does help in who feels like they can do a crazy route or just the hard route.

I used to cringe at the sound of my skids banging rocks, but I am used to it now. That is what they are there for and you know you are protected.

Can you mod the Rubi into a bigger beast and then do more crazy trails? Yes.

Can you mod the KJ into a bigger beast and then do more crazy trails? Yes and no. The KJ is limited in growth (bigger lift and tires) but it can perform great on those crazy trails (talk to USAFCOP).

We are riding trails with XJ's that have 35's and we do fine and sometimes they struggle more than us.

Remember, it is more the driver than the rig. The bigger the rig the more you think you can do but really can't.

How much is a loaded Rubi compared to a KJ? A lot more. Your full mods (armor, lift, locker in rear, steel bumpers front and back) to the KJ will still be cheaper than a Rubi.

Rubi (not the unlimited) on the Jeep website is $28590
KJ Sport on the Jeep website is $23685

You have almost $5000 in mods to the KJ to catch the baseline Rubi. You can do a lot of mods to the KJ. Possibly get the future 4" lift that we expect in 2007 from a couple of vendors that say they are going to work on it.

KJ = more comfortable on and off-road, less dust and dirt to breath in, expected to fail and a sense of pride when showing others that a KJ "can do." :lol:
Rubi = still bigger mod capable, the open air freedom, expected to perform well - but embarrassing :oops: when you fail......and a KJ succeeds. :twisted:






IMO the most moded KJ to a bone stock TJ rubi and a GOOD driver in both the rubi will be better of road
And I know it is 70% driver when I follow guys on 3's and 4's out at gilmer ,they use a 1-5 system, with 30's and lockers and they have 33's and 35's
but with little flex when compaired to a TJ and a "not so hot" break over angel the moded KJ is very very close to a stock unlimited rubi
they have break over issues also
but I fully agree that for the long haul go KJ but for a "trail machine" go TJ and I say get one befor the '06's are gone because I am still on the edge with the '07's
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