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| Toyoa IFS pre runner http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19510 |
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| Author: | CarNutCertifies [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Toyoa IFS pre runner |
Hey i was flipping thru my one of my off road magazines that came in the mail this week and noticed that there is a company that is releasing a new lift kit for the new toyota. It uses new a-arms, springs, struts, and longer axle shafts, they stated that the long axle shaft doesnt put any extra stress on the CVs, Why couldnt a simular design be used on the KJ? Would it be difficult to modify a kit such as this to fit? you know just change the mounting points of the kit to fit the KJs or vice versa. And please dont say "with enough money anything is possible" I believe with a welder and cutting torch anything is possible. So what do you think? i heard somewhere of someone modifying toyota a-arms for a kj. |
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| Author: | jereosbou [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
i read the same article and was more interested by the ford lift kit with the rod end used to connect the knuckles. think of the flex it would provide. theres noe ball joint to end the flex now ofcourse are upper arms contact and limit the flex first anyway but it was a nice design and if you combined it with the guys coilover conversion he was doing titled back yard lift it would greatly increase flex. as far as extended cv shafts i would think if you went to a machine shop with your cvs they could make some new extended ones for you and then all else would be down hill. that is what we should have ordered from je reel instead of the hd ones they make if you had them even a half inch longer or 1 inch it should allow for 4 inches or so of lift now youd have to do some math to figure the geometry for sure but if you were to do this then make some new lower control arms again alot of figuring in order to be able to get a lignment back to spec and make yourself un upper mount for a coilover that bolted in where the strut was then add some spacers in the rear to match the width and you up and running no problem. also youd want the new upper control arms i really like the ones on the ranger with the rod ends and it would also require limiting straps after all that . but youd have a sweet liberty with sick flex fornt and we already have good rear flex. its not that noone can make lifts for the liberty its that none will as theres not enough interest sure we like them and want to mod them but were only a feww look at tjs or early broncos. |
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| Author: | Milner [ Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I have been considering this since before we bought our KJ.... I would like to build longer upper and lowers, maybe 1.5" a side or so. Then use 930 cv's and real coilovers. I think you could end up with a nice ride, good handling, good performance in the rocks and at speed.... Biggist obstacle is the low steering arm on the knukle....makes decent steering geometery a PITA. Looking under other IFS rigs and at other kits, Chev appears most similar to what we have. Then maybe F150 stuff. Toyota arms are very different. I go back and forth on this, but I feel the fab work to build a KJ specific kit would be less then the Fab work to adapt another kit to a KJ. By making a specific kit, you can address specific problems and needs. I am looking for a wreck that I can cut the front off of with suspension still in place. This would be great for mock up and fitting....It is difficult to keep taking apart and fitting parts on a DD. I do feel it is possible to make a great IFS for a KJ, but it is unlikely that a custom kit will be able to be priced at a point that many could afford it. All the custom parts and r/d time to design it would price a kit at or above having a pro shop do a straight axle. It comes down to if you want it bad enough.... Personally I bet I will end up with a SA in the next 3-5 years. BUT before I do, I will fab a IFS with longer arms and better cv's. I love to Build, and I love the challenge of making something work the way I want it too. |
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| Author: | swyszomirski [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I too have been thinking about doing a lift kit like this. But I was thinking of making a new craddle to house a toyota steel front diff cause our aluminium ones don't like lockers. Then I was thinking of Camberg type boxed lowers and tube or billet aluminium uppers and new knuckles with hubs. stephen |
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| Author: | jereosbou [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
i read a little about porsche cvs but would they hook up to our ifs are cvs fairly generic in size or spline count? |
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| Author: | Milner [ Wed Apr 11, 2007 5:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
jereosbou wrote: i read a little about porsche cvs but would they hook up to our ifs are cvs fairly generic in size or spline count?
Would require some machine work, but with this level of fab or, that is minor.... |
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| Author: | CarNutCertifies [ Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
finally a real discussion how to make IFS work..... I thought of the new cradle idea awhile back and even posted trying to get everyone to put their heads together, But it sort of fell to the wayside. If you did that (build a new cradle or a bracket to mount the cradle out of say ie a Toyota) then you could just use an aftermarket lift kit. But wouldnt you also have to fab up the upper a-arm attachments? I just have a feeling that going this route should be easier than going SFA, Think about it pull out your existing front ifs, Bolt in new IFS out of your donor toyota with lift installed using the fabed up bracket, or bolt in ifs lift kit with fabed mounting points meanwhile keeping the apperance of using stock equipment. |
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| Author: | jereosbou [ Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
once youve done all these things though youll still be more expensive then a sfa and what do you wind up with. say you get a tricked out ifs front end? ok youve got a cushy ride,more travel say your up to 10 or 12 inches of travel,the cool factor of being ifs and one off, potentially a stronger front end?,,and at most the ability to fit 33s as even the toyota ifs has limits much above 33s and you bust it. yeah theyres people running 35s etc... my little brother did for a while but they either dont wheel hard or are lucky. now as far as simplicity the simplest instal is actually a sfa if anyone of these companys would pull there head out of their but they would make some new boxed frame railes that bolt onto ours with long arm mounts and a armored belly. then some long arms that will bolt up to jeep axles tj xj etc... thus making high pinion dana 30 or dana 44s an option. then use the rack and pinion setup used on the aussie sfa ill pos tpics when i get back to high speed internet but it turns the rack and pinion into a setup cabable of a drag link attatchement. itd be almost bolt on add a new trilink in the rear which im fixing to build a triangulated four link wiht adjustable arms. our 8.25 will hold 33s or even 35s for mild wheeling. its only slightly less strong then a dana 44 i understand. i think i could whip all that up for under a thousand bucks in materials. then if you sell em to people saying add your own axle shouldnt be more then about a 1500 dollar kit about the range of yota sfa's. okm now back to ifs i believe the practical limit for sfas on kjs is gonna be 3.5 inches in the front and 4 in the rear which would give you a rake but will be a nice setup. in the front get some ne uppers either alls or rustys or your own.... get whatever springs you like probly rustys as theyre very ppopular then add a half inch spacer to spring and 1 inch ott or a full 1 inch ott. now the way to offset this is to perform the 1/2 inch cradle drop like kjhawaii this will allow the 3.5 inch lift in front. use whatever strut you want. in the rear new lower arms with some sort of flex joint on the axle end and rubber body end as to cut down on vibration transfer. then an upper trilink all adjustable to move axle back a little and allow pinion adjustment. then some longer shocks for another vehicle or special ordered as even the ome l wont be long enough for the flex. also i would use rustys springs again and add a 1.5 inch polyurethane spacer like they use on tjs theyre cheap and fit over the top under the bumpstop. now aswell bumpstops would need to be extended to make sure you didnt over compress. this is gonna make room for a 32 if you treim everything right and really pound the pinch weld. also need aftermarket bumper to get rid of plastic in the front. the only other reall advantage would be to get some coilovers as one member was doing in his backyard lift post and then because of the narrower dimaeter spring we would get more flex and no ubj contact also adjustablity however he emailed me and said he was about a thousand dollars into it and not done but had soem ideas to make it cheaper. sfa with coilovers or springs will afford more flex more lift height options and be better overall. only funding prevents me form doing one... but i am going to do the ifs mods mentioned above . starting with the rear mods.if anyone ever desires to do an sfa and fund it idbe glad to get it started tomorrow and theyd wind up with the first one after that itd be down hill. |
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| Author: | Guest [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
I've been looking at the WK a bit, & 2 things intrigue me. First, the front diff is apparently steel, & second is the steering knuckles. The upper ball joint on the WK mounts to the steering knuckle about 3 inches above the tire; the KJ's mounts at the top of the rim. If the WK knuckle could be combined with a cradle drop, better flexing cv joints, Jeepin Al's upper arms, & custom fabbed lower arms, I bet you could get a decent lift at a reasonable cost. Throw in the WK front diff with a locker & off you go! Largely off the shelf parts too. |
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| Author: | pokey555 [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
When I get some time I will post pictures of a WK spindle I aquired to explore this possiblity. It would net ~6in lift, but would require a new lower control arm, cradle drop..... |
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| Author: | Guest [ Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
pokey555 wrote: When I get some time I will post pictures of a WK spindle I aquired to explore this possiblity. It would net ~6in lift, but would require a new lower control arm, cradle drop.....
Have you looked at the struts on the WK? they use the same clevis principle as the KJ but the strut/spring appear to be longer, & the clevis more beefy & a bit shorter. I'm getting kinda exited...Just wish one would land in the junk yard! 
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| Author: | swyszomirski [ Wed Apr 18, 2007 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
A friend of mine just got me the newest edition of the Peterson's Four Wheeler, and there is a Total Chaos 4Runner lift in there that looks great! I am really thinking of copying the design for the KJ, with the needed mods for our frame and sizing etc.... I don't like the idea of a craddle drop because the whole point of a lift is to gain ground clearence, but I see a lot of IFS lifted trucks that have been lifted 6" but the craddle is just as low as before the lift... whats the point? I want to do a full A-arm lift to get the needed room for bigger meats and more ground clearence, not just be able to run bigger meats with the stock ground clearence. stephen |
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| Author: | jereosbou [ Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
bigger meats equal bigger clearance. but more power to you. i still think tho that when you get into all the expenses of those that sfa is the way to go. if it wasnt for the vss gayly being in the rear axle on kjs i would have swapped to fullsized axles a while back . |
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| Author: | pokey555 [ Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
KJPilot, Pictures of the WK spindle as promised. If you notice the lower control arm mounting point, the ball joint is on the control arm. Also the upper control arm mounting point is not parallel to the ground. Another thing to consider when extending your control arms is the location of the spring, as it will affect the wheel rate. Meaning if the motion ratio is increase above 1:2 you will need a heavier spring rate to have the same resistance to suspension cycles. As for the longer spring/shock/clevis on the WK may work but, I designed my own for a foundation to build upon later. A good place to look for used parts is car-parts.com, this is where I found the spindle. Swyszomirski, Assuming you do a SFA and are able to use 35" tires, the centerline of the axel would be 17.5". Minus the width of the axel between the centerline and ground is ~4", it would net you approximately 13" of ground clearance. The KJ's stock ground clearance is 9-10", an available aftermarket lift would net 11-12" of ground clearance without larger tires. My point is if your only concern is ground clearance, I would reevaluate the simplicity of a cradle drop. 
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| Author: | jereosbou [ Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
thats strut is it stock on wks or aftermarket? |
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| Author: | jereosbou [ Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
nevermind i reread are you the guy i pmed about the backyard lift you werwe doing the work to make this strut setup if not how did you do that what parts where can i get it. |
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| Author: | Jeepjeepster [ Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
jereosbou wrote: thats strut is it stock on wks or aftermarket?
That is not stock on the WK's. 
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| Author: | Guest [ Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Hey, If I don't need a cradle drop, I don't want one! I was thinking about CV angles, & our puny wheel wells. I have 30" tires now & they barely fit at a full lock turn. Is that strut (the black one) a stock WK? If so, how does it compare to the OEM KJ strut/spring combo? |
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| Author: | pokey555 [ Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Jeremy, Here is a sketch of my upper shock mount, which you requested: 
Instead of machining a set of sleeve and perches, I found some that will work from Koni for a Rancho. Here is the part list: Sleeve: KON-3000000005 Perch: KON-3000000006 Springs: H&R 10" 450lb/in, or any 10" spring Front Shock:RAN-RSX17505 Additional parts are: Cir-clips, bump stops located on the shock rod, 10.9 grade bolts to pressed into the upper mount (the stock ones will work), spherical bearings, assortment of spacers, upper mount and a plate to retain the bearing KJpilot, No the black assembly is a stock KJ (CRD specifically) |
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