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| Locker vs. ESP vs. LSD vs. Open http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20887 |
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| Author: | moose [ Sun May 20, 2007 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Locker vs. ESP vs. LSD vs. Open |
OK. I have now seen up close or used all four, and I appreciate Jason Thompson's bluntness about them even more now. My '06 LJ has Trac-Loc LSD, and I would have sworn it was an open diff the way it worked in the mud yesterday. Their was nothing limited about it. The ESP traction control system from the 06 Renny was MUCH better than the Trac-Loc. In fact, the ESP is near the performance of PowerTrax locker (near, but not as nice), but the Trac-Lok is really near the performance of the open diff. OK, so this is old news to some, and blasphemy to others, but I had my "see the light" moment and wanted to share... |
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| Author: | jcphoto20 [ Sun May 20, 2007 4:01 pm ] |
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i thought that was the general consensus now. although i like the one in mine, seems to work fine for me in snow and slippery stuff. depends on what fluid is in your rearend and the condition of your clutches. i have 90w140 mobil 1 in there and lucas additive (from what ive seen its not good to add this to oil that sees high revs. but a rear end does not, its turning less than 1000 rpm so oil fling off is not an issue. its actually not a bad idea there) mine's never really seen any severe use so its like driving a new one still. |
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| Author: | myjeepwalks [ Sun May 20, 2007 4:24 pm ] |
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I have a trac-lok in mine and no complaints. I've never had it act like an open diff. My trac-lok has about 2k miles on it, maybe your's is worn out? |
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| Author: | renegadekj [ Sun May 20, 2007 5:01 pm ] |
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haha the trac-locks are useless if you are doing any offroading when you might be flexing and one tire comes off the ground! The only time my is useful is on ice and snow and then other times in ice and snow going around a corner it just kicks the rear end out! Hopefully a ARB in the future 
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| Author: | Alak [ Sun May 20, 2007 5:02 pm ] |
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I was playing in the rain today. I did a little left foot braking to get the tires loose and did a little 'spin the tires down the street'. I noticed only 1 tire was turning and I have a trac-lok in my 06' Sport. At least I was sure I had one. Theres no sticker on the diff so I donno how to tell. The old trick was to jack up the back and spin one tire by hand. If both went the same way, you had an LSD. If they spin opposite, you have an open. At least thats how it worked on Sports cars. |
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| Author: | renegadekj [ Sun May 20, 2007 5:20 pm ] |
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myjeepwalks i believe what moose is talking about is the factory trac-loc that some kj's(not all) came wih from the factory! You said you have 2k on you trac-lock so iam assuming you have a aftermarket LSD, like a true trac?? Or did you install a factory LSD 2k ago? |
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| Author: | jason thompson [ Sun May 20, 2007 5:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Locker vs. ESP vs. LSD vs. Open |
moose wrote: OK. I have now seen up close or used all four, and I appreciate Jason Thompson's bluntness about them even more now. My '06 LJ has Trac-Loc LSD, and I would have sworn it was an open diff the way it worked in the mud yesterday. Their was nothing limited about it. The ESP traction control system from the 06 Renny was MUCH better than the Trac-Loc. In fact, the ESP is near the performance of PowerTrax locker (near, but not as nice), but the Trac-Lok is really near the performance of the open diff.
OK, so this is old news to some, and blasphemy to others, but I had my "see the light" moment and wanted to share... I hope that you saw the light and it was to bright so now you are realy turning to the dark side all I will say now is Detroit If my ATV sells guess what I am getting |
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| Author: | jcphoto20 [ Sun May 20, 2007 5:31 pm ] |
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exactly, thats why i think mine works and you dont. i do the ice and snow stuff and not so much tire in the air. thats why everyones jeep should be tuned differently, we all drive different places in different ways |
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| Author: | jason thompson [ Sun May 20, 2007 5:44 pm ] |
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jcphoto20 wrote: renegadekj wrote: haha the trac-locks are useless if you are doing any offroading when you might be flexing and one tire comes off the ground! The only time my is useful is on ice and snow and then other times in ice and snow going around a corner it just kicks the rear end out! Hopefully a ARB in the future exactly, thats why i think mine works and you dont. i do the ice and snow stuff and not so much tire in the air. thats why everyones jeep should be tuned differently, we all drive different places in different ways Trac loc in the TJ on ice/snow brings the suck big time every turn was a thrill and even in a strait line could turn hairy the way it wroks makes it not so good for this stuff see a true open diff like the stock front of a KJ will 99.9% of the time suffer 1 wheel peel so when in ice and snow the wheel that is not spining will hold the jeep from sliding sideways and allow a strait line of travel I have trac loc and I know that for a fact ,dana axels have a tag Now the ARB not so much it will be "open as church" when unlocked and spool locked when needed I have seen ice and snow only 1 time in 3 years that I have owned the TJ so a detroit locker will be perfect for me I must agree you should build your jeep to do what you need but it should be safe for every condition that you may encounter I would never wheel the places I wheel with out a sport cage kit in the TJ to protect the driver and front passenger it would be unsafe |
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| Author: | renegadekj [ Sun May 20, 2007 5:51 pm ] |
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Agree..... everyone has a different purpose for their kj!  and what works for some may not for others.
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| Author: | jason thompson [ Sun May 20, 2007 5:57 pm ] |
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renegadekj wrote: Agree..... everyone has a different purpose for their kj!
and what works for some may not for others.yeah my wife drive a KJ on MT/R's because??????? well it suits her needs just fine if it is in your way then just drive over it |
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| Author: | myjeepwalks [ Sun May 20, 2007 6:19 pm ] |
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renegadekj wrote: myjeepwalks i believe what moose is talking about is the factory trac-loc that some kj's(not all) came wih from the factory! You said you have 2k on you trac-lock so iam assuming you have a aftermarket LSD, like a true trac?? Or did you install a factory LSD 2k ago?
No i installed a factory lsd. Got it off ebay for $52 brand new never installed i couldn't resist the price. I am quite happy with. Then again i dont get nuts like some of you guys here. I just hit dirt/sand roads and some mud holes. 
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| Author: | jason thompson [ Sun May 20, 2007 6:30 pm ] |
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myjeepwalks wrote: renegadekj wrote: myjeepwalks i believe what moose is talking about is the factory trac-loc that some kj's(not all) came wih from the factory! You said you have 2k on you trac-lock so iam assuming you have a aftermarket LSD, like a true trac?? Or did you install a factory LSD 2k ago? No i installed a factory lsd. Got it off ebay for $52 brand new never installed i couldn't resist the price. I am quite happy with. Then again i dont get nuts like some of you guys here. I just hit dirt/sand roads and some mud holes. but one day you will My wife swore up and down that her jeep was not going on the trails until she had a new ride we know how long that lasted |
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| Author: | moose [ Sun May 20, 2007 9:19 pm ] |
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Well, the TracLok is in a new '06 Wrangler Unlimited (TJ/LJ), so it is very new (2100), but didn't even compare with the ESP on the '06 KJ Reney... and as soon as I can get a open diff carrier for the D44, I plan on getting a Aussie Locker or a Detroit EZ Locker |
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| Author: | jason thompson [ Sun May 20, 2007 10:01 pm ] |
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I looked real hard at this option and after thinking about it the detroit would be better the aussie will cost you $250+$100 for a carrier thats $350 and a detroit is $550 if you shop and 10X stronger IMO worth the money install cost would be the same so it's a wash |
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| Author: | Jeger [ Mon May 21, 2007 6:13 am ] |
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Is the ox locker not an option? Or is it the price that excludes it? |
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| Author: | robert46123 [ Mon May 21, 2007 7:27 am ] |
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I have to admit that I've been super impressed with ESP. When we first got the CRD I figured it would be a let down from TracLock. I've always ordered my TJs with TracLock, but ESP is amazing. It's good on the trail and on road in slippery conditions. |
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| Author: | Eddo [ Mon May 21, 2007 7:35 am ] |
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Stay away from the Aussie Locker or Detroit EZ Locker or Lockright in a daily driver. They are all very similar and a beast on the road. If you are looking for just a lunch box locker, than the no-slip hands down is the best. I've had an aussie locker before and if you think the power-trax click and clanks then you are in for a surprise. The EZ locker and the Lock-right are essentially the same. The no-slip is similar but uses some syncros and paddles to help smooth out the process. You do have the D44 so just about every locker option is available to you. Tru-trac, ARB, Detriot (full carrier replacement), ox-locker, e-lockers, etc. |
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| Author: | moose [ Mon May 21, 2007 9:03 am ] |
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Jeger wrote: Is the ox locker not an option? Or is it the price that excludes it?
They are a bit expensive, but folks that have them love them. Eddo, thanks. I'll probably got with a Detroit, OX or ECTED |
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| Author: | DarbyWalters [ Mon May 21, 2007 10:04 am ] |
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I think a DTT (Detroit Tru-Trac) with ESP would be a great combo fron and rear. The ESP would apply the brake (if it even needed it with a DTT) and make the DTT act much like a locker. |
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