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Front Drive Shaft U-Joint
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26896		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Renegade03 [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Front Drive Shaft U-Joint
I had my 2003 Liberty in for an oil change the other day. It has almost 90,000 miles on the odometer. The dealer service writer, whom I trust, told me that I should think about replacing the front drive shaft soon because the U-joint is worn. I have the following questions that I hope all of you can answer.

1. Why would a U-joint be worn after only 90,000 miles? I had a '93 Grand Cherokee that I drove for 178,000 miles, and which is still being driven by a coworker, and neither drive shafts or U-joints have ever been replaced.
2. I drive most of the year in two-wheel drive. Does the front drive shaft rotate when the transfer case is in 2WD?
3. Does the shaft need to be replaced or can the U-joint be replaced without replacing the shaft?
4. Why would the front be worn and not the rear?
5. Has anyone else had to have this repair performed?

This is the first time I have had to have any portion of the drive-train replaced and it gives me an uneasy feeling that a Jeep that is driven 99% of the time on the road, would sustain the type of wear that would require replacement of the U-joint or drive shaft.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:41 am ]
Post subject: 
First there is no u-joints in the front driveshaft,the front driveshaft uses CV joints on both ends so it requires the complete replacement of the driveshaft($360-$600).And yes the front driveshaft turns when in 2wd since the front is always engaged from the lack of selectable hubs in the front of the KJ.
Author:  KJ04 [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:57 am ]
Post subject: 
I think you need to stop trusting your trusted service writer, since he doesn't seem to know what he's talking about.... Any noise, vibrations?
Author:  Renegade03 [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:01 am ]
Post subject:  Front Drive Shaft U-Joint
No, I don't have any vibrations or noise. The reason that I have trusted him is that he has found problems (both warranty and non-warranty) that began that could have gotten much worse if they hadn't been taken care of. Also, he never pushes work on me. He will bring things to my attention and leaves it at that; so I don't feel that he is trying to add repair work.

Thanks.
Author:  Pote [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Front Drive Shaft U-Joint
Renegade03 wrote:
No, I don't have any vibrations or noise. The reason that I have trusted him is that he has found problems (both warranty and non-warranty) that began that could have gotten much worse if they hadn't been taken care of. Also, he never pushes work on me. He will bring things to my attention and leaves it at that; so I don't feel that he is trying to add repair work.

Thanks.


remember...that even if they "find" a "problem" that is considered warranty work, they are still getting paid by DC. Also, do you really know for sure that any of the "heads up" problems he found would have turned into a bigger problem, or does he recommend a fix that he knows you will want to take care of on his word...lastly, you have to agree that you should question his judgment now that he recommends a fix on a part that is not in the front of your KJ....that's just a red flag. Might just make sense to get a second opinion on the front driveshaft, knowing what you learned here...it can't hurt and it most likely won't be the same diagnosis since the U-joints are in the rear. CVs up front.


Also, with no vibrations or noises, what did he visually see that made him determine you need a fix on a part thats not even in the front...he should be able to tell you, "look (you), x,y,z is worn, leaking, vibrating, separating, etc" and should be replaced...not just, "hey, I think its time to throw more money at your driveshaft because I say its bad." food for thought.
Author:  Renegade03 [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Service
I have had two instances where I noticed a problem and upon the next service, he pointed out the problem to me without any prompting from me. The first was a steering rack that was failing and the second was a leaking seal at the rear diff. I know that they get paid whether it is warranty work or not. The steering rack was not under warranty. He told me that I should contest this repair with DC, which I did. DC paid for it.

Also, there have been a few instances where I asked him about performing specific maintenance work; and he has replied that the work didn't need to be done at this time.

I have in the past questioned some of the repairs (prior to having them performed) with this forum and other sources. It is my belief that he has never tried to perform work that was not necessary.

In any case, I didn't want this to turn into a discussion of whether I should or should not trust my dealer service department; but rather to educate myself in regard to this current situation. I have never owned a front wheel drive car for more than 3 years and therefore I am unaware of the durability of, and the need to change-out, CV joints. I still question whether a CV joint should wear out in less than 100,000 miles.
Author:  Pote [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:27 am ]
Post subject: 
your KJ is a REAR wheel drive car...just an FYI. And, I'm with ya when you find a guy you can trust...its hard not to go with their recomendations...just question why he told you the Ujoints were bad on the front...there are none. CVs can go bad not long after being at the factory, or they can go for many miles with no problems...however, when CVs do start to go, you will either hear noticeable noises and/or feel them failing through your driving habits...its not something that will go unknown to you the driver.
Author:  Renegade03 [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  CV joints
I'm sorry. Maybe I should have made this more clear in my initial post. I have an '03 Liberty Renegade with Selec-trac. I specifically ordered it this way so I could drive in Full-Time 4WD on dry pavement. It is 4WD and can be driven in 2WD, which how I drive it 7 to 8 months of the year. Therefore, if I understand this correctly; it has a driveshaft to the rear axle equipped with a U-joint, and, the trasfer case is connected directly to the front axle (for 4WD) and the front axle is equipped with CV joints.

So it sounds as if I should wait until I hear or feel noise or vibration from the front, which would indicate that the CV-joints are worn.
Author:  Jeep Dawg [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
I had my front drive shaft replaced along with my CV joints over the summer and 100K + miles on the stock shaft. Mine wore out really bad and making clunking and squeeking noise in 2wd and 4wd.
Author:  wildrussian [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
All the service writers do is the paperwork. If there is a problem the mechanic tells the writer and he tells you if something is wrong. For all you know he might just misunderstood the mechanic and said U-Joints in the front instead of CV-Joints. Could just be innocent mistake. I would get second opinion though just in case.
Author:  1300ZUK [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joints
Renegade03 wrote:
Therefore, if I understand this correctly; it has a driveshaft to the rear axle equipped with a U-joint, and, the trasfer case is connected directly to the front axle (for 4WD) and the front axle is equipped with CV joints.



GO CRAWL UNDER YOUR JEEP!!!!



to quote Jeremy Clarkson "it's absolutely hopeless"
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joints
1300ZUK wrote:
Renegade03 wrote:
Therefore, if I understand this correctly; it has a driveshaft to the rear axle equipped with a U-joint, and, the trasfer case is connected directly to the front axle (for 4WD) and the front axle is equipped with CV joints.




to quote Jeremy Clarkson "it's absolutely hopeless"


Let the stig give it a go around, he will find out whats wrong. :twisted:

So is it the rear Drive shaft or the front Driveshaft? The rear Driveshaft does have ujoints(two) and the front driveshaft has CV joints. The tcase is not connected directly to the front axle, it does have a Driveshaft just like the rear.
Author:  Renegade03 [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:09 am ]
Post subject:  Apology
Gee, 1300ZUK, I apologize for requesting information about my KJ from the L.O.S.T. forum, "the premier place to find everything you need to know about your KJ", and probably the one group that knows more about the KJ than anybody. Next time I want to know something, I'll just poke around making mistakes and not learning from those who know more than I do. Thanks.
Author:  1300ZUK [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Apology
Renegade03 wrote:
Gee, 1300ZUK, I apologize for requesting information about my KJ from the L.O.S.T. forum, "the premier place to find everything you need to know about your KJ", and probably the one group that knows more about the KJ than anybody. Next time I want to know something, I'll just poke around making mistakes and not learning from those who know more than I do. Thanks.


well the best way to learn is to go out and touch stuff.



You asked a pretty obvious question, that you could have answered yourself in the length of time it took you to post this, then wait for replies.

Sorry if you feel differently, if you want i can go take pictures of under my Liberty, i wouldn't want your back to get dirty.
Author:  Pote [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
...and if it is your front CVs you might experience popping, clicking and vibration on your peddles....clicking or popping noises while turning a slow corner, coming to a stop at a light or stopsign, and then again while accelerating from a stop. It will be noticeable. YMMV.
Author:  Se7enLC [ Tue Nov 27, 2007 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
He probably said the front driveshaft u-joint. As in, the u-joint on the front of the driveshaft for the rear wheels (as opposed to the rear driveshaft u-joint which would be on the other end of the driveshaft).

I had mine replaced at around 40k, "wear due to excessive angle"
Author:  Uffe [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Interesting to know.

What's the price of new CV joints? Surely the axle itself should be serviceable (if not - wtf?)

My 03 has just done 75,000miles yesterday, no strange vibrations of any sort from the drivetrain.

Took it wheeling in the weekend and it was a lot of fun. Without a lift and proper offroad tyres it was a dog, but insanely fun to drive on a greasy field! :D Made it through some hills where others didn't (because I drove it smarter, not harder).
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