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Front cradle drop for 3.5-4" lift
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27030		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Universeman [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Front cradle drop for 3.5-4" lift
This is a big question that I'm sure there aren’t simple answers to, I'm just trying to gather as much information as possible on this subject as to its feasibility. I don't have big $$$ for a lift but what I have in mind is to drop the front cradle just enough to install an OTT spacer lift in combination with the lift I have. I have a CRD and I want 3-4” of lift and I want to do it cheap.

Basically I want to drop the front diff 1” or so, from my past experience of attempting to install a 2.5” OTT lift this would be enough for the forks to clear the left CV and keep the CV angles reasonable I also want to drop the steering gear to keep those angles reasonable as well.

What I'm wondering about is what exactly is attached to the cradle(front diff, engine, rack and pinion?) and would a simple shim of 1x2" square tubing simply drop everything attached to it? What possible issues will arise from this? I’ll leave it at this for now and see what kind of response I get whether it be heck no your crazy or ya that could work.

My parts other then the cradle drop would be Al’s A-Arms a 2.5” OTT spacer lift (or a under the strut spacer) the rusty’s poly spacer which I’m using now and extended bump stops. For the rear I would use a 2.5" spacer in combination with the HD OME springs I'm using now as well as Al's link extension, Rancho RSX 17004 extended shocks and extended bump stops, I figure it would cost less then a grand for this lift.
Author:  tommudd [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
when you drop the cradle then everything drops, engine/ steering etc. its all together basically.
If you are lifting the rear that much I dont think the 17004 would be long enough, they work well with 2.5/3 inches but another 2 or 2.5 and would be too short.
As far as the CRDs go I know they are a little different and have not had the chance to install a lift on one so I will stop at that.
I for one always go for the if you do it cheap its going to be cheap forever. So I wouldnt try what you want to do.
Author:  DarbyWalters [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
You would at least need to relocate the Upper Control Arms...down at least as much as the "drop"...even with Als A Arms.

Might also need to shim down the transfercase and tranny the same amout as the drop...since the cradle is also the engine mount.

Plenty of work. If you go to the MidWest Club Section, you will find info on JeepinAls 5.5" lift.
Author:  Universeman [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the advice Tom you answered exactly what I was asking about the cradle. My other question here is would it cause any driveline angle issues?

As far as going cheap what I mean is doing as much as possible my self, like fabbing the cradle drop myself. If I got the OME CRD springs and OME struts and assembled them my self it would cost me $450 or so, now I have to ask my self is that worth it? Well for me it rides just fine right now with the stock struts, their not the greatest but they work fine for me and if they go bad their cheap and easy to replace. Is the OME set up better? Of course it would be, but I can’t afford it so the point is moot. My goal with this lift is to increase my break over angle because I’m always getting hung up in the center of the vehicle, improving ride quality is secondary to me right now and I’m lucky because I’m not paying someone else to figure out this stuff for me, after all the lift I’m running now cost me only 200 bucks and it works great :D
Author:  Universeman [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Darby you wouldn’t happen to have a link for that thread would you?
Author:  tommudd [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Try in the Mid Atlantic LOST section I thought it was un there and thats where Jeepin Al was so may start there for the info that Darby talked about. I know what you mean about doing it on the cheap just didnt want you to think that throwing different things together you would have a safe dependable everyday type lift.
Author:  Guest [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
Why not get the Jeepin' by Al 4" lift? remove 3/8" from the CV cup & that's it. Easy as pie... sorta
Author:  shoprat [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
does anyone have a link to removeing and disassembling drive axles for the SHAVE ?
Author:  Universeman [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Found the link
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=122576&highlight=#122576
But the picture links are broken but still good info though. Some pictures would be really helpfull, also it sounds like ther's other issues to address as well.
Author:  myjeepwalks [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
KJpilot wrote:
Why not get the Jeepin' by Al 4" lift? remove 3/8" from the CV cup & that's it. Easy as pie... sorta


Because he's in the same boat as me wants more lift but doesn't have big $$$$ to spend on it.
Author:  Universeman [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
Also Al's lift won't work with a CRD with out the Cradle drop, its a CRD thing :P
Author:  Guest [ Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Universeman wrote:
Also Al's lift won't work with a CRD with out the Cradle drop, its a CRD thing :P

Ahh, I forget to look at that CRD thing... I guess I just don't understand! :D

If it were a gasser though, I don't think Al's lift would be much more expensive, by the time you factor in materials, time & effort.

EDIT: There is a jeepin' by Al 4" kit for the CRD, & a cradle drop is not mentioned:
http://www.jeepinbyal.com/4inSTDliftkitCRD.aspx
Author:  Universeman [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:41 am ]
Post subject: 
So it says, but from my experence and with all due respect to Jeepen by Al and I'm not bashing his work, but his 4" lift won't work because his extended struts will hit the left inner CV boot. This was the problem I ran into installing a OTT lift, the lift pushed the strut into the CV boot (by alot and it was only a 2.5" lift) Al's lift is a clevis and spring lift, there is zero information about the spring rate which is critical for the CRD and it looks like the rest of the lift is a clevis lift. The problem with lifting a CRD is that the front Diff is 1/2" lower then the gas Liberty which is good but it is shifted an inch maby more to the left, which is really really bad and that left shaft is much shorter and the inner CV boot is much closer to the fork. As my friends say in World of Warcraft "take a screenshot or it dident happen". Sorry to be blunt but I've spent some time under my jeep and I know. I'm pursuing the cradle drop because of the above issues not the CV angle.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Universeman wrote:
So it says, but from my experence and with all due respect to Jeepen by Al and I'm not bashing his work, but his 4" lift won't work because his extended struts will hit the left inner CV boot. This was the problem I ran into installing a OTT lift, the lift pushed the strut into the CV boot (by alot and it was only a 2.5" lift) Al's lift is a clevis and spring lift, there is zero information about the spring rate which is critical for the CRD and it looks like the rest of the lift is a clevis lift. The problem with lifting a CRD is that the front Diff is 1/2" lower then the gas Liberty which is good but it is shifted an inch maby more to the left, which is really really bad and that left shaft is much shorter and the inner CV boot is much closer to the fork. As my friends say in World of Warcraft "take a screenshot or it dident happen". Sorry to be blunt but I've spent some time under my jeep and I know. I'm pursuing the cradle drop because of the above issues not the CV angle.
The 4" al's lift uses 450lbs springs,40lbs more then the stock CRD coils.Just remember if doing a cradle drop there is alot of work that needs to be done,may need to extend some wiring and/or hoses,relocate the UCA's(not fun,alot of work),lower the tranny/t-case mount to prevent driveline angle problems,if you have the HD cooling then you'll need to cut the fan shroud for the mechanical fan to clear(then the mechanical fan is virtually useless for cooling),and some modifing of the exhaust will most likely be needed.
Author:  Universeman [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Wow that is complicated and sounds like more trouble then its worth especially with a warrenty to worry about and all. Look I'm not trying to start a flame fest with what I said about Al's 4" lift its just that I had my Jeep for about two weeks when I bought the OTT lift and I had to find out the hard way that it wouldent work which was during the instalation it took me 6 months to talk the company into taking the lift back as incompatable with a CRD. I would definitely be interested in his kit if it works, it looks like a great kit I'm just not going to play guinea pig again.
Author:  C co Crusader 2/127 [ Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:18 am ]
Post subject: 
why dont you just start saving up for the 6" lift that al is making. Its suppose to have all the stuff you need and you would save cash in not having to buy an ott system.
Author:  Jeepin Al [ Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
I am only back here once in a while. The cradle dropped I used was a 2 by 2 inch 1/4 steel tube. I cut it 3/4 and 1/4 to allow for the crunch zone. The hardest part is getting bolts or harden rod to replace the stock bolts which are now way to short. They may work with a 3/4 inch drop. I welded the tube to the cradle.

With out the HD fan, you can lower the cradle 2 inchs with no problem. Loosen the radiator hoses, actually get them loose enough to move. You will need to lower the tranny/transfer case around 1 to 1.5 incnhes I found. With stock MOAB wheels you can run 295-75 r 16's on the road, and 285-75 r 16 on the trail with the inner plastic removed in the front and the washer bottle (out of a TJ relocated to the engine compartment). Anything over 33" is not posible due to the front fender well size. The front axel is another story. Newer KJ's should see if they are using the cast iron unit out of the Cherokee.

Will will not have any problems with the CV joints. You will need to drop the upper a-arms by 2 inches. I had moved the pockets down into the "frame rail" which is now supported by the 2 by 2 tube. It worked fine. Search the archives for the report on the "5.5 inch lift" I have written a lot and all the photos are their of the build up. I would go with the way Marlin has set up the kit. I think he has it just about a complete bolt in system. The rear needs a lot of work too, but it is a lot easier.

Good luck with all your mods, wheel well and safe. and Merry Christmas!

Al
Author:  Guest [ Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
Universeman wrote:
So it says, but from my experence and with all due respect to Jeepen by Al and I'm not bashing his work, but his 4" lift won't work because his extended struts will hit the left inner CV boot. This was the problem I ran into installing a OTT lift, the lift pushed the strut into the CV boot (by alot and it was only a 2.5" lift) Al's lift is a clevis and spring lift, there is zero information about the spring rate which is critical for the CRD and it looks like the rest of the lift is a clevis lift. The problem with lifting a CRD is that the front Diff is 1/2" lower then the gas Liberty which is good but it is shifted an inch maby more to the left, which is really really bad and that left shaft is much shorter and the inner CV boot is much closer to the fork. As my friends say in World of Warcraft "take a screenshot or it dident happen". Sorry to be blunt but I've spent some time under my jeep and I know. I'm pursuing the cradle drop because of the above issues not the CV angle.


The 4" appears to be all spring. The 6" looks to be the same spring/strut set up as as the 4" with a 2" clevis component. Marlin also has posted that the CV issue is solved by shaving 3/8" off the front of the inner CV cup.

Which ever route you take, good luck!
Author:  Universeman [ Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the inputs everyone this is actually moving in the direction I was hopping.

So I can drop the cradle 3/4 of an inch with out any issues if I don’t have a HD fan? How do I know if I have the HD fan? Also what does "I cut it 3/4 and 1/4 to allow for the crunch zone" mean? I'm thinking of using 3 2" wide x 1/4" thick steel strips along the entire length of the cradle on either side. Its just four bolts correct? And do I need to get longer bolts to be on the safe side or are the stock bolts long enough? If need be I can cut the inner CVs for clearance, I assume your just trimming excess unnecessary material for the mod.

I know 3/4 of an inch doesn’t sound like much but that extra 3/4" should equate to 1 1/4 inch additional lift in the end. That should get me to around 3 1/2 inches of lift in the front.
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