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I am thinking about getting the replacement arms. Do you need to get the longer brake lines as well? Are there any other upgrades I'll end up doing once I get the new arms on? And do the new arms still require you to notch your bumpstop or has that been fixed with the new versions? Thanks.

I might be messing it up for others, but I'm almost 5" above a post-lowered raised vehicle without tires added into the mix. IIRC, they lowered the KJ 2", so raising it would bring it back up to what mine was bought at. I never lowered mine through recalls or whatever happened after 2002, and raised it from there.

Chumly wrote:

I think we need to clear up a thing or two here.... your pre-lowered KJ simply had different factory springs than the lowered KJ's.

Let's say (for the sake of an example) that we are installing 2 identical skyjacker lifts on a pre-lowered KJ and lowered KJ. Before they are touched... the pre-lowered would sit up higher. BUT when we remove the factory springs we have 2 IDENTICAL Jeeps. When we install the new springs with the lift.... both Jeeps are the same height because they both share the same suspension. The lowered Jeeps technically get more lift because they started lower and came up further to their current position.

(if I am mistaken at all... someone please correct me)

I just got my Al's A-arms installed and now I have A LOT of positive camber. The alignment shop guys said I need a camber kit.......???????? They're telling me there is no adjustment left in the suspention...... Anyone ever hear of this before?

so what is the difference in the 4 4.5 and 5 generation al arms
are some of them better than the others or service a different purpose
for different models kj's or just the next generation of the same arm ust with the newest upgrades so to speak
help me out here

Author:	DispatchedKJ [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:01 am ]
Post subject:	Al's arms
I am thinking about getting the replacement arms. Do you need to get the longer brake lines as well? Are there any other upgrades I'll end up doing once I get the new arms on? And do the new arms still require you to notch your bumpstop or has that been fixed with the new versions? Thanks.

Author:	KJ04 [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Al's arms
DispatchedKJ wrote: I am thinking about getting the replacement arms. Do you need to get the longer brake lines as well? Are there any other upgrades I'll end up doing once I get the new arms on? And do the new arms still require you to notch your bumpstop or has that been fixed with the new versions? Thanks. Your brake lines should be fine as they are. If you have the extended Teraflex or Daystar front bump stops, yes drill a hole in the stop for the grease fitting. The grease fitting on his Arms are 2 pc. angled fittings, (at least on the Gen. 4 they are) I unscrewed the top from the bottom base piece and screwed it in to the BJ so it is sraight up and reduces the lenght of it. Do this before you attach the BJ to the knuckle so you can swing the Arm up to the stop, to see where it is going to hit.

Author:	Chumly [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:
I feel the stock ones are iffy. It's hard for me to take a picture to relate what I'm seeing. With the jeep on on jacks and the wheels juuuuust touching the ground (can rotate them if you really try) the stock line is starting to get stressed. Toward the bottom, all looks fine (with the brake line anyway): At the solid tubing at the top, I see stressing: This is what I'd call the front being extended and what a person will see with moderate off-roading. Right where the upper section turns from rubber hose to tubing, it bends a bit more than I'm comfortable with and the hose is taunt. Hanging the wheel off the ground it bends right there more. It's hard to recommend bending the solid line and do it safely. I think it'd be more savvy to get extended lines and not be cheap. But I'd be willing to take a wild guess that the lower tubing could stand to be pointed upward more than it is (enter huge disclaimer here) If you're wondering, and I know you are...I had a bad battery leak all over and ate some bushings. The sway bar links are the last to be replaced. And I've yet to notch the bumpstops, but will once I fix 20 other things up there.

Author:	Joe Jeeper [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Brake lines.
I have a 4" lift on for 2 years never touched my brake lines and haven't had a problem. Joe

Author:	Chumly [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:
I'm a 2002 Pre-lower, raised 2.75" (according to the measuring tape). The lift I used was the SkyJacker 2.5" lift. I might be messing it up for others, but I'm almost 5" above a post-lowered raised vehicle without tires added into the mix. IIRC, they lowered the KJ 2", so raising it would bring it back up to what mine was bought at. I never lowered mine through recalls or whatever happened after 2002, and raised it from there. When I installed the A-arms, I measured another 1/2" raise in the front with the jeep sitting off the jacks. Same 1/2" even driving it around the block. I explain that 1/2" from a bad angle getting fixed. There's nothing else been done to account for that. The alignment came more true than it was before as well, and only a smidgen of camber needed taken in. Heck, my tires show bad alignment (from Jeep going off the books and not real/actual?) and looks right now using what I have available (strings and jugs...backwoods. How I align my bikes). I feel Al's arms give back some upward umph needed in every lifted KJ. And they come red now in case anyone was wondering. I'm about redded out, but it seems to be a pattern on my build.

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Author:	durangotang [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:
Chumly wrote: I might be messing it up for others, but I'm almost 5" above a post-lowered raised vehicle without tires added into the mix. IIRC, they lowered the KJ 2", so raising it would bring it back up to what mine was bought at. I never lowered mine through recalls or whatever happened after 2002, and raised it from there. I think we need to clear up a thing or two here.... your pre-lowered KJ simply had different factory springs than the lowered KJ's. Let's say (for the sake of an example) that we are installing 2 identical skyjacker lifts on a pre-lowered KJ and lowered KJ. Before they are touched... the pre-lowered would sit up higher. BUT when we remove the factory springs we have 2 IDENTICAL Jeeps. When we install the new springs with the lift.... both Jeeps are the same height because they both share the same suspension. The lowered Jeeps technically get more lift because they started lower and came up further to their current position. (if I am mistaken at all... someone please correct me)

Author:	tjkj2002 [ Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:
durangotang wrote: Chumly wrote: I might be messing it up for others, but I'm almost 5" above a post-lowered raised vehicle without tires added into the mix. IIRC, they lowered the KJ 2", so raising it would bring it back up to what mine was bought at. I never lowered mine through recalls or whatever happened after 2002, and raised it from there. I think we need to clear up a thing or two here.... your pre-lowered KJ simply had different factory springs than the lowered KJ's. Let's say (for the sake of an example) that we are installing 2 identical skyjacker lifts on a pre-lowered KJ and lowered KJ. Before they are touched... the pre-lowered would sit up higher. BUT when we remove the factory springs we have 2 IDENTICAL Jeeps. When we install the new springs with the lift.... both Jeeps are the same height because they both share the same suspension. The lowered Jeeps technically get more lift because they started lower and came up further to their current position. (if I am mistaken at all... someone please correct me) You are correct.

Author:	medic9402 [ Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:
I just got my Al's A-arms installed and now I have A LOT of positive camber. The alignment shop guys said I need a camber kit.......???????? They're telling me there is no adjustment left in the suspention...... Anyone ever hear of this before? And where would I find one of these kits? Thanks going out to all you gurus. One last thing, I used the washers that came with the A arms, but I don't remember there being any washers on the stock arms..... Could this be a problem?

Author:	clackclack [ Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:
I installed Al's Arms and a Franenlift II(CRD 790 front) with 3/8 clevis spacers the weekend before Easter.... I had an alignment done a few day later and mostly normal adujustment (except the toe was off by more than 3.5 degrees???), every thing was adjusted into normal range and it rides great (better than stock). Don't remeber any washer? I ended up with ~2.75" of lift.

Author:	Jeepjeepster [ Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:
medic9402 wrote: I just got my Al's A-arms installed and now I have A LOT of positive camber. The alignment shop guys said I need a camber kit.......???????? They're telling me there is no adjustment left in the suspention...... Anyone ever hear of this before? Hopefully you can get your money back because they are WRONG. Those nuts on the lower control arms are used to adjust the camber and they are not in the right places. I cannot align a suspension but it seems like I know more than they do. Just by looking from the front I can tell the wheel has positive camber. If you do not get that fixed your tires will wear bad and probably cut down on mpg. Nice cat!

Author:	Jeepin Al [ Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:
By the looks of the pictures you still have a ton of alignmnet. The wheel alignmnet guys have no idea how to align a lifted Jeep with something that is not "stock" to them. On 2003 and above your toe will be way out when you install a lift, as well as when you install the arms. The washers on the bottom arms should have the lines pointing in (at each other) to remove the postive camber by moving the lower arms outward. Make sure the washers that come with the ball joints are with the nuts! Not between the arm and spindle, but under the nut between the nut and spindle. Over the years I got a dozen or so calls asking why the arms were loose and did not work because of the washer placement. The positive camber will lead to slight tire wear, the real wear comes for the toe. Sometimes staking around here Al

Author:	medic9402 [ Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:
Jeepin' Al, I ALMOST put the washers in the wrong spot but caught myself before final assembly. They're on the underside of the knuckle with the nut, but thanks for the heads-up. The KJ is in the shop getting the alignment done as we speak. I took it to a different shop and these guys do a lot of work on highly modified 4x4's. I expect they'll get it right.

Author:	jdumont [ Fri May 30, 2008 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:
Jeepin Al, I called you guys yesterday for the install of my gen 4.5 arms and talked to your secretary who told me she would have to call me back after she checked with someone about this spacer/washer thing. She called back and said the spacer gets mounted on top of the knuckle and under the boot of the UBJ. Now I read this post and see this... am I missing something?? Josh

Author:	tommudd [ Fri May 30, 2008 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:
This thread like some others has gotten confusing with people mixing things up. jdumont- Jeepin Al used to own Jeepin By Al but sold it to Marlin so thats who you talked to not Jeepin Al who still hangs around here every now and again The Gen 4, Gen 4.5, and Gen 5 are all a little different. The previous post were talking about Gen 4s and below and the way the washer worked on them. Gen 4.5 and Gen 5 has a different ball joint assembly and thus has a different set up. The collar of which you speak goes between the top of the spindle and the new arm, please look at the website and you can see the location of it. Tom

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Author:	jdumont [ Fri May 30, 2008 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Oh man, sorry about that. Right on the website and i missed it... lol Getting my alignment tomorrow. Camber is awful after the arms and new OME927's... CANT WAIT!

Author:	tommudd [ Fri May 30, 2008 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:
Yes takes some to bring it back into specs, I put my Gen 4.5s on this week and got the alignment today. Also added an extra little something for some more heighth!

Author:	ga_repoman [ Sat May 31, 2008 12:27 am ]
Post subject:
so what is the difference in the 4 4.5 and 5 generation al arms are some of them better than the others or service a different purpose for different models kj's or just the next generation of the same arm ust with the newest upgrades so to speak help me out here

Author:	tommudd [ Sat May 31, 2008 12:35 am ]
Post subject:
ga_repoman wrote: so what is the difference in the 4 4.5 and 5 generation al arms are some of them better than the others or service a different purpose for different models kj's or just the next generation of the same arm ust with the newest upgrades so to speak help me out here Quick lesson on Als arms There was Generation 1,2,3,4,and then 5s. The 5s had more bend at the rear and thought they were better but it turned out they hit the top of the pocket where the 4s were hitting the bottom of the pocket. 5s did have a different / better ball joint and mounting also welded area where the tubes and the ball joint met, than the previous ones which was also good , but still they would work for the 4 to 6 inch really good but not 2.5 to 3 inch So Marlin backed up a bit and made the 4.5s newer style ball joint etc but at the rear same as the 4s , best of both. Totally confused yet?

Author:	jdumont [ Sat May 31, 2008 7:22 am ]
Post subject:
My 4.5's still hit the bottom of the pocket so I had to remove a few mm's of material there. Havent driven it much yet cause of the camber rubbing away my tires. After the alignment today ill know more of how the arms and new OME springs feel. I have a 1/4" spacer plate on top of the strut. It sits very nice right now. Im thinking that if it settles at all ill add a clevis to compensate and be good to go. Not expecting much settle from the HD springs though....

Author:	tommudd [ Sat May 31, 2008 10:33 am ]
Post subject:
Of course the 4.5 s will hit the bottom of the spring pocket if you did not remove any metal from there, they are like the 4s in the rear, but they are much better then what the 5s were doing to the top of the pocket, I took out over 1/4 maybe almost an 1/2 inch of the the lower part of the pocket, and then the alignment helped as well!