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60mph torque problem take off gas moves right 1.5 feet
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42269		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  LibertyTC [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 5:14 am ]
Post subject:  60mph torque problem take off gas moves right 1.5 feet
This is my first post, hello to all.
04KJ stock-36,000miles Problem is this thing wants to head for the ditch by a torque problem. Alignment was done so it is not that. Ball joints up front checked ok.
When traveling straight at 60mph if you step on the gas vehicle moves to the left slightly but wow if you take the gas off completely it will move to the right about 1.5 feet (do not slow down in curves with this problem)
Stealership noted that the rear upper ball joint (they called it) was a bit loose. I posted in another forum and received a response that this has been discussed in here and that it is probably the "lower control arm bushings"
SO..can anyone clarify for me WTF is going on with my poor KJ at 36miles?
I do not have a very good diagram of the rear suspension but I think the proper term for the parts may be actually the Lower Suspension arms may have need for bushings.
Since the oem parts suck, I am hoping to replace with moog or other quality aftermarket products and look forward to some help and product recommendations please and Thanks in Advance!
Author:  JeepinJarhead03 [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Even though you said it's been checked and it is relatively new, I'd still be apt to double/triple check the front suspension as well as the brakes to make sure you don't have one draggin


A few of these posts may be the posts you had in mind:

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=40596&highlight=rear+bushing


http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=40789&highlight=rear+bushing

just note these seemed to be symptomatic with acceleration not deceleration
Author:  LibertyTC [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Thank You For Quick Reply and Links!
Really appreciate this timely reply with links.
Suspect parts are the upper ball joints (which should have been recalled and are currently under investigation by NTSB)
and the rear suspension control arm bushings.
Looks like a full inspection is in order by shop.
Really unfortunate this is going to get a bit costly, might as well replace it all.
Thanks again. Tim.
Author:  JeepinJarhead03 [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
We all do what we can to help, welcome to the forum :)

be sure to update us on the progress and what you find
Author:  ducktail [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mine did that not long ago. It was the rear contol arm that was worn out. Chrysler dealer was surpised but it was s\considered to be ordinary wear. I do have 70,000 miles.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pulling upon hard acceleration is normal,it's called torque steer.Not normal when you just let off the stupid pedal.Check the rear control arm bushings and upper tri-link.
Author:  ga_repoman [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  .
how hard is that rear bushing to replace ??
Is that a do it yourself project ??

just checking working at close to 70,000 mile mark myself
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: .
ga_repoman wrote:
how hard is that rear bushing to replace ??
Is that a do it yourself project ??

just checking working at close to 70,000 mile mark myself
Cheaper to buy the whole arms and/or upper tri-link with the new bushings installed in the long run.Those suckers are pressed into there pretty good and don't like to come out.
Author:  LibertyTC [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:03 am ]
Post subject:  oem parts or aftermaket available?
Do I have to buy the dealer parts or is the tri-link and the lower suspension arms with the bushings available elsewhere?
The dealer did say that the upper ball joint in the rear had movement,(which is the center piece I guess of the tri-link)
Would much rather get aftermarket if they are better quality..
Got an appointment with service MGR at dealer on Sat will post back findings, but need to know on aftermarket products please.
Thanks Tim.
Author:  e_poirier2004 [ Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
Had that problem, it was the bushings. I changed mine and it came back. Filled the holes with urethane, no problem since. I wouldn't try changing them from the control arms unless you have a 10 tons hydraulic press. Basically, the rear differential is slightly shifting, causing the wiggling on the road. You can purchase your parts at Morris 4x4 center, cheaper than the stealership and pretty reliable. Good luck. Let me know if I can be of any help.
Author:  Strikeagle [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:08 am ]
Post subject: 
i replaced mine on rear control arm 3 wk ago. u just need a press. harbor freight sells them, friend had one. my jeep has approx 70000 miles , its a toad, 45000 on odometer. i kept hearing a clunck, turned out to be sway bar hitting those balls on the rear pumpkin, bent them on a rock once.
Author:  jdumont [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
If it ends up being the rear upper ball joint tri link I can also vouch for going the route of replacing the whole piece. I had to replace mine at 90k miles due to some rear end shakyness and noise and there is no way the bushings would have come out because of the rust.

Ended up being $200 I think from Wholesalemopar.com
Author:  LibertyTC [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Dealer Drives/Inspection Today
Service manager drives KJ and notices vehicle move left with acceleration and moves right about 1.5 feet with gas off completely at 60mph. Kj then put on hoist/floor and all is checked out. 2 Hours later they come back 2 me and state they can not find anything wrong, it seems to be all within tolerances. SO they go back out on a road test again, they feel the vehicle is unsafe on the highway and recommend that I replace the tri-link with ball joint in the rear as well as both lower control arms with new bushings. Now as far as I am concerned, they are just agreeing with me over what I explained to them about the differential shift caused by the lower control arm bushings. SO I ask will this guarantee a fix for this problem? Answer "Well in the least it is a good place to start"
They quote $ 1206 parts labor and tax in (Canadian). (parts only $718)
I estimate parts about $450 Can from Morris plus shipping plus duty?
Hard to believe at 36,000 miles all the suspension is worn out, needs shocks, springs all the way around and might as well do all the Ball joints with Moog too while I am there.
I am speechless, only put 1800 miles on since I bought in last July. It was BCAA inspected with nothing wrong then, but I have had alignment done, new tires and back to dealer over pulling issues since I bought it.
On top of it I bought it just before the crash, and I do not even want to tell you how much I paid for it. It was super clean a lease back 2004 in July 08 lady spent $7000 in maintenance in the 4 years she owned it with all bills/history no accidents. Looks like I need to put some $ into it. Trying to decide if I want to keep it or trade it for something else now.
Author:  JeepinJarhead03 [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Personally, I would keep it, in relation to going through the whole heres a new vehicle loan crap again it's a small investment

sometimes odd stuff justs happens no matter how good you maintain it

same roll of the dice you'd take with anything else i suppose

but! it is your wallet and your keys!
Author:  tommudd [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 6:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Of course the springs and shocks are worn out at 36000 miles, thats about the true life of them, time to upgrade :wink:

What did the lady before spend 7000 on before you got it?? Wow thats a ton of money for an 04, besides regular maintenance items I don't have a third of that amount in lift, wheels, bumper and everything else done to mine :shock:
Author:  e_poirier2004 [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Looks like somebody is getting screwed here... Your problem is with the rear left lower control arm since the jeep pulls to the left when you accelerate (compression) and pulls right when you release the gas (extension). The tri-link is attached at the center of the rear diff with a ball joint. It can't be what's causing your problem since the whole diff would slightly shift by the top center. Just purchase the left (or both) lower control arms from Morris 4x4 and whether you change it yourself or get it changed by your local mechanic, start there and you will feel quite a difference. The stealership doesn't have a clue so they just change their over priced parts. Please don't pay 1200$ hard earned dollars on such a problem, I hate to see hard working people getting shafted. Check this link for suspension parts http://www.jeep4x4center.com/jeep-steering-parts/liberty-kj.htm
Author:  e_poirier2004 [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Me again, looks like the 2004-2007 have the same bushings with the holes in it (the problem) on the axle side of the control arm . I thought the 2004 were spared of that plague. If you want, don't even buy anything, just get the lower control arms removed and fill the holes with windshield urethane following the steps described in one of my previous posts. That should fix your problem. Tube of urethane: 10$ at autopart, Driving safely after checking on the forums not to get hosed: priceless.
Author:  LibertyTC [ Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:04 am ]
Post subject:  Thnaks to all for your opinions comments!
Ok Double Thanks you to all !! I am keeping the Jeep. Just going to do repairs one section at a time. So it is time to ask some more questions and prepare for parts comparisons and installation.
While the vehicle was on the hoist it should be noted that the upper rear ball joint on tri-link could be moved up and down easily at least 1/4 of an inch not sure if that is the torque problem. Might as well just order a new tri-link with a new ball joint to eliminate that movement and tighten things up with new bushings all up top. I appreciate your comments and agree to start at replacing the lower rear suspension arms (control arms) which bushings appeared to be worn with easy sideways movement present there. Dealer stated that they are just rubber bushings and they should move. On the Morris site part #25 appears to be all rounded, mine on the the hoist quickly appeared to be rectangular bar with rounded bushing ends and I will need to communicate with someone here by posting photo or email you, as I do not know if I can post photo of what appears to be different than what morris control arm is. OR is this a re-design of the stock control arm?? Some photos from you, that have replaced with Morris arm and photo of what this filing of holes in urethane has me baffled probably until I get them off. Some photos here would be really helpful. I will try to get some pictures of my rig and hope to share or compare, I have to get this right the first time.
Regarding the $7K spent by previous owner,the dealer saw her coming, and everything from brakes to battery to full tune ups and throttle body clean removal, all fluids flushed on and on...
Author:  WolverineFW [ Tue Apr 21, 2009 1:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Dealer Drives/Inspection Today
LibertyTC wrote:
They quote $ 1206 parts labor and tax in (Canadian). (parts only $718)
I estimate parts about $450 Can from Morris plus shipping plus duty?


You might not have to pay duty under NAFTA if the parts were manufactured in North America, but you will probably get dinged for the taxes by customs.

LibertyTC wrote:
I am speechless, only put 1800 miles on since I bought in last July. It was BCAA inspected with nothing wrong then, but I have had alignment done, new tires and back to dealer over pulling issues since I bought it.


I am guessing BCAA not provide any kind of warranty on their inspection services? Seems kind of worthless if you only put on 1800 miles and they never caught this problem.

You in the Lower Mainland?
Author:  LibertyTC [ Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  BCAA
I am in Vancouver.
Just contacted manager at BCAA and made him aware of what is going on. That the necessity for replacing all of the upper and lower bushings due to this torque problem. Also stated that it would be appreciated that a notification of all re-calls and advisories for they year/type of vehicle should accompany the inspection. They have so many clauses in their report one of them being " Not responsible for defects or conditions which may be discovered by road testing"
Have found someone local at a 4x4 shop that can press in all of the new bushings. Will get new ball joint for upper tri- link and all bushings done.
Parts to come from Morris 4x4 - HAS ANYONE pressed in the lower control arm bushings from Morris? My control arm look different than the diagram. I have a photo of my lower control arms sent off to Morris right now, have not heard back from them. Need to compare here...got photos of your 04 lower control arms?
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