steering in the rain

stormyday · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:37 am

I have a Liberty with a 3 inch Rough Country lift and Nitto Terra Grappler AT P265/70 R17 tires (31.57"). Since I made the mods I haven't been in the rain and the other day I got a big surprise. My Liberty used to handle in the wet or on ponded roads just great (Cooper 245/16 ATR's). Now it's a nightmare. When I hit a puddle or water in the groves the steering wants to jump to the side. No amount of white knuckle action will stop it, much like a combination of hydroplaning and "bump steering," but with water. Then I got in a heavy rainstorm and could not drive over 45 MPH. This was a reasonably smooth road with a 75 MPH speed limit. Before the new tires I would have blasted right through this rain. Hydroplaning is always blamed on the tires, but in this case I suspect the lift and changes to steering. Will a steering damper help? What other changes can I make to get wet control back to my vehicle. Here is a couple unexciting links to my tires/wheels:
http://chaseday.com/PHOTOSHP/downloadpa ... tire-1.jpg
http://chaseday.com/PHOTOSHP/downloadpa ... tire-2.jpg

As you can see the Nitto's have deep groves all the way to the outside of the tire....should let water escape. Any help will be appreciated before I wind up on my top.

tommudd · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:55 am

How long has it been since you last had it aligned?
Have you had it aligned since you lifted it?
How many miles on the suspension?
Since you have the Rough Country lift I would assume you have stock springs and shocks all the way around?
What air pressure are you running in the tires?
No steering damper is available, we have rack and pinion steering
If you have had that lift on a long time check your upper ball joints they may be toast

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:41 am

my uncle ran .. or tried to run, those tires on his blazer, they were almost worn out at 20k and they pretty much cost him a fender and a hood due to 3 inches of snow

i was behind him in my truck and he just straifed across the road into the ditch on a level road as if his blazer tracked with the direction of the grooves on the tire

i'd check the UBA's like Tom suggested, but if it's straifing left (the blazer always drifted to the left) it very well may be the tires inability to handle standing water appropriately

stormyday · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:17 am

tommudd wrote:

How long has it been since you last had it aligned?
Have you had it aligned since you lifted it?

Aligned twice, don't think that's it. Same people aligned it that did it before the problems. New laser alignments I'm told won't work because they are pre set for stock tires....least Firestone told me that.

How many miles on the suspension?

Ummm, quite a bit, 100K plus, but I had it checked and everything is "tight" I am told. Likely I need new struts and springs in the front. Maybe the weak stut combo is letting the tire "lift"???? Possible??

Since you have the Rough Country lift I would assume you have stock springs and shocks all the way around?

The Rough Country came with new rear springs, but a lift for the strut spring in front. Can't say I like it, the vehicle now drives like a 57 DeVille, kinkd of wallows and bounces.
What air pressure are you running in the tires?

Air pressure was overinflated at 40 lbs, I now have it at recommended 35 lbs.

No steering damper is available, we have rack and pinion steering
If you have had that lift on a long time check your upper ball joints they may be toast

Ball joints are tight, been checked twice at two shops.

Thanks for the reply.

stormyday · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:20 am

JeepinJarhead03 wrote:

my uncle ran .. or tried to run, those tires on his blazer, they were almost worn out at 20k and they pretty much cost him a fender and a hood due to 3 inches of snow

i'd check the UBA's like Tom suggested, but if it's straifing left (the blazer always drifted to the left) it very well may be the tires inability to handle standing water appropriately

Yeah, going more left than right but it will jump both ways. Honestly I can't believe these tires are that bad, hope to get other opinions. That said, it is almost impossible to drive in the wet, outright dangerous. It was rock solid on rain before the tires though.

Thanks

jmichaelsjeep · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:27 am

go to www.tirerack.com and check out the user reviews on your tires. I've found it to be very helpful in determining tire related issues. It is user reveiw based so others may be saying the same thing. If many others are, it could very well indeed be a tire issue. I've noticed since I replaced the tires on my liberty it does track a little differently in water as well on the road, but not as drastically as what you are describing. I also have BFG AT Long Trail which is a little more of a highway tire and since I do a ton of highway driving every year, that made a little more sense for me for the time being.

tommudd · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:32 am

stormyday wrote:

tommudd wrote:

How long has it been since you last had it aligned?
Have you had it aligned since you lifted it?

Aligned twice, don't think that's it. Same people aligned it that did it before the problems. New laser alignments I'm told won't work because they are pre set for stock tires....least Firestone told me that.

How many miles on the suspension?

Ummm, quite a bit, 100K plus, but I had it checked and everything is "tight" I am told. Likely I need new struts and springs in the front. Maybe the weak stut combo is letting the tire "lift"???? Possible??

Since you have the Rough Country lift I would assume you have stock springs and shocks all the way around?

The Rough Country came with new rear springs, but a lift for the strut spring in front. Can't say I like it, the vehicle now drives like a 57 DeVille, kinkd of wallows and bounces.
What air pressure are you running in the tires?

Air pressure was overinflated at 40 lbs, I now have it at recommended 35 lbs.

No steering damper is available, we have rack and pinion steering
If you have had that lift on a long time check your upper ball joints they may be toast

Ball joints are tight, been checked twice at two shops.

Thanks for the reply.

at 100,000 plus on the stock suspension and with that lift it would give you a skating feel going down the road, may not be that noticeable on dry roads but would be amplified when wet. If it wallows and bounces its past time for a suspension upgrade, new springs and shocks in the front are needed NOW! :wink:

JeepinJarhead03 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:43 pm

yeaaaa, i got almost 100k on mine too, It does the Stanky leg from time to time when going over big ledges in the road like comming off bridges

:lol:

i'm gonna replace lba's and springs and struts right after chrysler puts new UBA's on it

my jeeps gonna be like :shock:

Why am I 4 1/2 inches higher than usual?!

I know my suspension has GOT to have sagged 2 inches for it to be rubbin pinch with 235/70's :lol:

stormyday · **Posted:** Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:56 am

Thanks all for the good advice, I'll upgrade the Rough Country Lift to something better before I give up on the Nitto tires. The local 4x4 shop is trying to sell me on installing the (relatively new for Liberty) Rancho Quick Lift System. Actually this is a pretty expensive solution but not as high dollar as some front end lifts.

"Rancho Quicklift systems use Rancho's My-Ride 9-position ride tuning struts and shock absorbers and are designed to reuse the original equipment coil springs. Match your Rancho quickLift, in the rear of the vehicle, with Rancho's New RS9000XL shock absorbers to create the ultimate in Ride....blah blah"

http://www.gorancho.com/products/shocks/quicklift.php

The struts alone are $200 each then it uses the stock coil over spring. In this case my spring is likely worn out I would get the OME 927 HD. Since the OME 927 is designed to lift 1.5 inches (some claim it will lift 2.5") it's a crap shoot just how much I could get. Any opinions? I have to have 3 inches or my tires will rub and since I've already chewed off some rubber I need something that is better than the standard 2.5" Depending on the Clevis/ conduit nuts to solve my last 1/2 inch is to me somewhat of a risk.

Anyone tried the Rancho Quicklift, the Rancho 17505 is certainly received well and seems a bit longer than the OME solution? Question is, at $100 more per strut is it worth it?

Hood297 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:16 pm

I switched from the Rough Country lift, and it has been the best investment ever. It is a wise decision to change it out.

As far as the Rancho Quicklift, I have never seen one on a liberty, or even the design of it.. I would be interested to see what it looks like.

steering in the rain

Who is online