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Offset and spacers vs wheel bearing wear
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42788		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  stormyday [ Sat May 02, 2009 10:26 am ]
Post subject:  Offset and spacers vs wheel bearing wear
How much is too much? I checked the FAQ and didn't find this one. For example I now have 17 inch wheels with a 4.75 offset. That pushes me out 3/4 inch from the stock 5.50 inches correct. So, can I add a spacer and get another 1-1.25 inches? At what point will my steering and bearing wear become an issue? I've found quite a few suppliers, Spidertrax appears to be the most popular. Most start at one inch, just guessing less than that may warp since they use alum and not steel.

I've hunted the Internet and can't find wider fenders for the Liberty, there are countless ones for the regular Jeeps. Does anyone make one or will I have to fab them myself? There are obvious issues here, rocks hitting the paint, wet spray blinding the vehicle behind me and of course some states don't allow wheels hanging outside the well.
Author:  SweepnChoke [ Sat May 02, 2009 11:21 am ]
Post subject: 
What size tire are you running?

I have the spider trax 1.25" spacers on the stock 5.5 bs rims with 245/75/R16 and this already pushes my tires just outside the wheel wells.

So if you are running a tire as wide or wider, adding the 1.25" spacers will push your rubber way outside the well.

Secondly, the 245/75/R16 with the spacers caused some minor rub frm the front outside edge of the tire to the front outside of the wheel well (around the entry flap for the fog lights). So again with the larger decrease in BS and a tire as wide or wider you would get significant rubbing unless you have an aftermarket front bumper such as the ARB.

I have been running the spider trax 1.25" spacers for a little over 5 years, mostly on the street, offroad about once a month, and I haven't had an issue with the bearings yet, however saying they do add stress to the bearings is undeniable, and with your extra decrease in BS there would be even more stress on the bearings.

I do not know of any aftermarket bushwacker type wheel flares for the Liberty, many have looked, and some have just gone ahead and modified their own.

Here is a picture of how the 245/75/R16 sit in the wheel well with 1.25" spacers, if you wan't a better pic to get a more accurate idea let me know. (the liberty in the background is stock rims, no spacers, 235/70/R16) But IMHO I think adding 1.25" to your set up might be a bit too much.
Image
Author:  CRD Joe [ Sat May 02, 2009 11:51 am ]
Post subject: 
That's a great pic Sweep. What kind of rocker skids are those? I think ill get some of those wheel spacers for my truck.
Author:  SweepnChoke [ Sat May 02, 2009 12:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
CRD Joe wrote:
That's a great pic Sweep. What kind of rocker skids are those? I think ill get some of those wheel spacers for my truck.


They are Rock Rails from http://www.rocky-road.com/kjrockrail.html . I know other people have had issues ordering from them in the past, but I have ordered a number of times with them and not a single issue.

I perfer the super slider rails, but they were having a clearance on the standard rock rail about a year ago and the price was too good to pass up (a little over $100.00).

One note about them though, you can't really tell from the pic, but the trim and outer most part of the doors stick out slightly farther then the rail, thus any idiots in parking lots that open their door into you, the rails will not protect the door. I will be welding some 1.5" 3/16" thick round tubing along the outside of the rails to protect the doors from idiots. Something along the lines of what is pictured below. I already have the design mocked up, just need to get together with friend of mine to acquire/bend the tubing and weld them up.

Image
Author:  jsc7002 [ Sat May 02, 2009 12:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
CRD Joe wrote:
That's a great pic Sweep. What kind of rocker skids are those? I think ill get some of those wheel spacers for my truck.


I wouldnt mess with RRO they dont have the best customer service, I have their rock rails though and I love them, I actually bought them from RRO off of ebay, because if I didnt get it I could report it to ebay and I was going to make my own but they had them on sale for only $110, and they main tube is 1/4" so I bite the bullet and bought some, and they are great, I havent hit them on anything yet though :( :lol:
Author:  SweepnChoke [ Sat May 02, 2009 12:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mine aren't Rusty's, they are Rocky-Road Outiftters. I haven't heard of issues when dealing with Rusty's, but I've read plenty of bad issues with RR, I just fortunately haven't had an issue myself.
Author:  jsc7002 [ Sat May 02, 2009 12:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
SweepnChoke wrote:
Mine aren't Rusty's, they are Rocky-Road Outiftters.


opps sorry, thats what I meant. :oops: ...fixed
Author:  SweepnChoke [ Sat May 02, 2009 1:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
"I havent hit them on anything yet though"

I've hit them on plenty, and I always jack the truck up with them, so they will certainly take the abuse, no bends or dings, just some lost paint which is easily fixed.
Author:  long_tall_texan [ Sat May 02, 2009 2:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Back to the O.P. I am running 4" BS with 31x10.50's. I did have to do quite a bit of front fender liner trimming. But it was really easy to do. I really like the wider stance.
Author:  CRD Joe [ Sat May 02, 2009 2:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
Not to hyjack his thread, as I like those spacers. I have a set of them on my long wheelbase suzuki samurai.

I emailed the owner of Rock Lizard and asked him if he'd make me a set of his sliders with the "tube" portion of the slider at an upward angle just like those in your picture Sweep and he said that he would.
Author:  SweepnChoke [ Sat May 02, 2009 2:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
long_tall_texan wrote:
Back to the O.P. I am running 4" BS with 31x10.50's. I did have to do quite a bit of front fender liner trimming. But it was really easy to do. I really like the wider stance.


I like the wider stance as well, however in the application described above he would have 3.5" BS which will increase the amount of rubbing I would guess signigicantly. It will no longer be simply heating up the wheel well and pushing it a 1/2" forward.
Author:  long_tall_texan [ Sat May 02, 2009 2:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think I remember that someone was running 3.75" or 3.5" BS. Maybe TJKJ or Inc.
Author:  SweepnChoke [ Sat May 02, 2009 4:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
long_tall_texan wrote:
I think I remember that someone was running 3.75" or 3.5" BS. Maybe TJKJ or Inc.


True but TJKJ has the ARB front bumper like mine, and Inc. has a custom front bumper, both of which open up the bottom of the front wheel well considerably thus rub isn't an issue.

However bearing wear would be the same, which was the original question.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Sat May 02, 2009 8:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
SweepnChoke wrote:
long_tall_texan wrote:
I think I remember that someone was running 3.75" or 3.5" BS. Maybe TJKJ or Inc.


True but TJKJ has the ARB front bumper like mine, and Inc. has a custom front bumper, both of which open up the bottom of the front wheel well considerably thus rub isn't an issue.

However bearing wear would be the same, which was the original question.
I was running16x8 with 3.75" BS rims,to much rub and went to 16x7 with 4.5" of BS rims and no rub.

Bearing wear will be accelerated no matter what,offset rims,wheel spacers,and bigger/heavier wheels/tires.
Author:  stormyday [ Sat May 02, 2009 10:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm running P265/70 R17 tires 31.57" diameter. This is about the same as a P265/75 R16. I wanted to get away from that big tire - little rim look. Also, I've had problems with big tires wearing more from the center so I wanted wider rims. I went from chrome 7 inch wheels to Race Line Wheels that are 8.5 inches wide. Since my wheels are wider + my offset is 4.75 that would equal .75" + probably another .75" = 1.50 inches out from stock. My tires already hang out more that anyone's pictures already especially SweepnChoke who already has the spacers.

It's beginning to look like adding the Spidertrax would be too much....like 2.75". That said, I see many Wranglers hanging out that much without spacers....maybe they don't have the bearing load issues?
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Sat May 02, 2009 10:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
stormyday wrote:
I'm running P265/70 R17 tires 31.57" diameter. This is about the same as a P265/75 R16. I wanted to get away from that big tire - little rim look. Also, I've had problems with big tires wearing more from the center so I wanted wider rims. I went from chrome 7 inch wheels to Race Line Wheels that are 8.5 inches wide. Since my wheels are wider + my offset is 4.75 that would equal .75" + probably another .75" = 1.50 inches out from stock. My tires already hang out more that anyone's pictures already especially SweepnChoke who already has the spacers.

It's beginning to look like adding the Spidertrax would be too much....like 2.75". That said, I see many Wranglers hanging out that much without spacers....maybe they don't have the bearing load issues?
You will have massive rub with those rims trying to go over a speed bump,good luck.

Wider wheel makes the tire shorter,also makes blowing a bead offroad more likely,more bearing wear,heavier so it will effect power and mpgs.

Narrow rim give the same tire it's true height,less likely to blow a bead offroad,lighter,and less rub problems on a KJ.
Author:  stormyday [ Sat May 02, 2009 11:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wider wheel makes the tire shorter,also makes blowing a bead offroad more likely,more bearing wear,heavier so it will effect power and mpgs.
Narrow rim give the same tire it's true height,less likely to blow a bead offroad,lighter,and less rub problems on a KJ.[/quote]
Ok thanks for the advice, but in the end my tire is still roughly the same diameter 31.6 inches only about an inch wider. And yes I do rub a bit mainly on rough back roads at high speed and I have torn out a few chunks of rubber on the outside edge when I really push it hard....also my gas mileage has dropped a bit, about 2 MPG after accounting for tire diameter vs my 4:10 gear. All this is not enough to bother me so far. As for blowing the bead, hummmm, that would be bad. Perhaps my tire - wheel combo is matched well enough that I won't do that.

Two days ago I took a very rough road about 40 miles north of Langtry TX. It was rutted with 4-6 inch potholes and water filled ditches. Most of the time I ran about 50 MPH and sometimes I had to slow to the 40's range. Even through I was banging the bump stops and sliding a bit I didn't blow a tire or lose a bead. This was not done as a game, I was trying to cut in front of a tornado warned storm. Had the road been washed out I need the time to backtrack to get out of the way, so there was some stress. That said, the tire wheel combo worked and I got through....just dumb luck, I hope not. Still, you give me cause to be concerned about this possible problem.

On the plus side, I still have my 16 inch rims. I intended to sell them but perhaps I will keep them and put my new mud tires on them after your comments. I haven't lost a bead since I got rid of my crappy Toyota 4X4. I think it happened more with that vehicle because the rear end would slide out easily. I am not yet a true rock crawler like most of you, but last summer I went to Moab and through much of Utah and I loved it.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Sun May 03, 2009 12:31 am ]
Post subject: 
stormyday wrote:
Wider wheel makes the tire shorter,also makes blowing a bead offroad more likely,more bearing wear,heavier so it will effect power and mpgs.
Narrow rim give the same tire it's true height,less likely to blow a bead offroad,lighter,and less rub problems on a KJ.


Quote:
Ok thanks for the advice, but in the end my tire is still roughly the same diameter 31.6 inches only about an inch wider. And yes I do rub a bit mainly on rough back roads at high speed and I have torn out a few chunks of rubber on the outside edge when I really push it hard....also my gas mileage has dropped a bit, about 2 MPG after accounting for tire diameter vs my 4:10 gear. All this is not enough to bother me so far. As for blowing the bead, hummmm, that would be bad. Perhaps my tire - wheel combo is matched well enough that I won't do that.

Two days ago I took a very rough road about 40 miles north of Langtry TX. It was rutted with 4-6 inch potholes and water filled ditches. Most of the time I ran about 50 MPH and sometimes I had to slow to the 40's range. Even through I was banging the bump stops and sliding a bit I didn't blow a tire or lose a bead. This was not done as a game, I was trying to cut in front of a tornado warned storm. Had the road been washed out I need the time to backtrack to get out of the way, so there was some stress. That said, the tire wheel combo worked and I got through....just dumb luck, I hope not. Still, you give me cause to be concerned about this possible problem.

On the plus side, I still have my 16 inch rims. I intended to sell them but perhaps I will keep them and put my new mud tires on them after your comments. I haven't lost a bead since I got rid of my crappy Toyota 4X4. I think it happened more with that vehicle because the rear end would slide out easily. I am not yet a true rock crawler like most of you, but last summer I went to Moab and through much of Utah and I loved it.
As far as blowing a bead that is more for when you air down offroad,at street pressures you should be fine,air down to 10-12psi and you'll blow beads quick compared to having the same tires mounted on a 7" rim at the same psi.Your 265/70R17's are no where close to the advertised 31.6" on a 8.5" rim just to let you know.I run 265/75R16's and they have stamped right on them to mount on a 16x7 rim and give a true height of 31.9".
Author:  stormyday [ Sun May 03, 2009 3:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
Your 265/70R17's are no where close to the advertised 31.6" on a 8.5" rim just to let you know. I run 265/75R16's and they have stamped right on them to mount on a 16x7 rim and give a true height of 31.9".

Are you saying they are less than 31.6? We did quite a bit of measuring and chopping in the tire shop and the 265/75R16 were generally (depending on the brand) taller. My goal was not specifically a big tire I just wanted a different wheel size than 16 inch.....a different look than everyone else. These are my road/ dirt road tires if you will. And they appear to be strong enough to get the job done. I've learned to not take high ply tires out on the highway, the heat up and bad things happen. Like a frightning sidewall blowout.

For pure off road or rocks I will need something different no doubt....but I've got a long way to go before I get to that point. For now, proper suspension, starting hopefully next week.
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