LOST JEEPS
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

Liberty 4 to 6 inch lifts available by mid to late 2006
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4345		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  MountainMikes [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Liberty 4 to 6 inch lifts available by mid to late 2006
Has anybody noticed the Rocky-Road Liberty Parts in the works section, they talk about a new design for the CV axles that should allow for lifts of 4 to 6 inches? The claim is that this will be available in mid to late 2006. This could be a very exciting thing. :twisted: But I have a concern...

I have read so much about the weakness of the Liberty front diff housing. Wouldn't that be even more of a problem with a larger lift and bigger tires - say like 35 inch? :shock:

Rocky-Road warns against running a front locker in a Liberty because of the weakness of the front diff. But of I had this lift, I would expect to be able to run 35 inch tires and to be able to put on a ARB front locker.

I remember somebody fabbed up a steel clamshell ring to support the front diff housing where the shaft came through. Did that actually reinforce the front diff enough or did it make it worse?

How did the different materials do between changing cold and hot conditions with the different materials and therefore different rates of expansion and contraction? Example: Driving through a hot day and fording through a wide fresh snowmelt creek?
Author:  WV(0)IIIIIII(0) [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
The lift would not be a problem as long as they do come out with some cv's that could support the angle. The diff still would catch heck with the larger tires. The only way around not breaking the front diff is to wait for someone like JeepinAl to finish creating his super front diff.
Author:  USPLibby [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
They'll also need to provide new steering knuckles and/or new control arms to push the wheels back out to their proper placement inside the wheel well. With the shorter upper control arm, pushing the control arm angles farther down is only going to push the wheel camber angle past the point where they can' be aligned anymore.
Author:  Guyute1210 [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
USPLibby wrote:
They'll also need to provide new steering knuckles and/or new control arms to push the wheels back out to their proper placement inside the wheel well. With the shorter upper control arm, pushing the control arm angles farther down is only going to push the wheel camber angle past the point where they can' be aligned anymore.


They will need to make something like Jeepin' Al's Upper Control Arms.
Author:  jpzkj [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 10:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
4" of lift and 33's / 35's your just begging for a broken front differntial !

Not to mention replacing your ball joints so often you'll be good at it.


Only way to reliably run 33's/ 35's on a KJ is a solid axle ...but good luck ! 8)
Author:  RespectMyLibertay [ Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
jpzkj wrote:
4" of lift and 33's / 35's your just begging for a broken front differntial !

Not to mention replacing your ball joints so often you'll be good at it.


Only way to reliably run 33's/ 35's on a KJ is a solid axle ...but good luck ! 8)


Through reading all of the tech articles about the front suspension and differential, I have accepted this as the sad truth. But that won't stop me from running 32s or true 31s with a 4" lift. It might look weird, but I'd bet it'd wheel well with the extra tire and ground clearance.
Author:  jjnord [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:02 am ]
Post subject: 
In all my readings here on this and other post, I still haven't heard anyone talk about the other big up-side to a solid axle...brakes. I learned years ago on my YJ that I could throw all kinds of money that the Dana 30 to try and make it able to handle bigger tires and more horse power. Warn shafts, 297 U joints, Crane diff cover, etc, etc. In the end, I have spent WAYyyy to much on that D30 which did become more reliable; but I still couldn't STOP. At the time I was running a 35" tire and the D30 brakes even with steel lines felt like I was tring to stop a freight train. No way I was going to dump even more $ into it. Some years ago I took a leap to a ARB'ed Big Gun Dana 44 front and a beefed out Ford 8.8 rear. I run 38's and stop like it's a 12 year time warp to stock again!

Point is, I can see this happening again to the KJ with a moddifed ifs kit to be able to run 33's or 35's. If your going to do it, do it right; in the KJ's case it's solid axle. I may cost more at first but the axle would require much less attention/$$ and you'll to much happier in the long run.

Just my opion :wink:
Author:  ManicMechanicJoe [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:49 am ]
Post subject: 
The insides of the D30 are fine (not bulletproof by any means, but will work) for 33's. I went to school with a guy that ran 33's on his wrangler YJ. He never broke an axle when we went wheeling. You just gotta be a little more prudent with the throttle. The big problem with our D30a is the aluminum housing. Aluminum is half the weight of steel but only 1/3 the strength. If you look at the center section of a D30 axle and you look at the D30a, there is no difference in size. This means our front end is 2/3's weaker then the regular D30. The big problem is hard landings on the front axle case. My question is, how hard would it be to cut the center section out a Dana 30 or 44 for that matter and make it into a front diff? Shouldn't be too hard for a regular driveshaft/machine shop to do. Set it up with those new CV's and we got a bulletproof front end for 33's that can run any gear ratio made for the D30. D30's are also dirt cheap cause everyone rips em out of theirs Wranglers.
Author:  krazz1e [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 11:31 am ]
Post subject: 
Upside to a solid axle is even the same 31" tires the diff pumpkin case will raise up with the tires, where our IFS stays stationary, meaning it scraps on a lot of stuff. The other major advantages are the flex allowing for better traction since it forces the opposite wheel downwards.

Braking will be weak with 35's as will power, requiring regearing... but I think most of us are looking for a full 33" which braking should be sufficient and gearing will probably be OK, although preferred regearing.

Too bad our front 30a dana is aluminum would definitely make things easier if it was steel. I think when it's all said and done to run a full 33 cost wise it's probably sixes running sfa vs a ifs with all these upgraded components, so for wheeling sfa is a better choice IMO.

I still wonder if we can use the new WK diff which is steel.... if so that might open things up getting one cheap at a junkyard and then going from there........
Author:  Skyjump136 [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 12:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Upside to a solid axle is even the same 31" tires the diff pumpkin case will raise up with the tires, where our IFS stays stationary, meaning it scraps on a lot of stuff.


A lifted IFS diff is much more "out of the way" than a solid axle one. Throw a 3" lift on the KJ and on a TJ and see what happens. That diff moves UP on the KJ but stays stationary on the TJ. Then you add 31" tires and they both move up by the same amount. So if you're doing the math that means you got 3" more clearance under the KJ diff when comparing the same amount of lift and tire.

Maybe I misunderstood your post though.
Author:  jjnord [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
ManicMechanicJoe wrote:
The insides of the D30 are fine (not bulletproof by any means, but will work) for 33's. I went to school with a guy that ran 33's on his wrangler YJ. He never broke an axle when we went wheeling. You just gotta be a little more prudent with the throttle. The big problem with our D30a is the aluminum housing. Aluminum is half the weight of steel but only 1/3 the strength. If you look at the center section of a D30 axle and you look at the D30a, there is no difference in size. This means our front end is 2/3's weaker then the regular D30. The big problem is hard landings on the front axle case. My question is, how hard would it be to cut the center section out a Dana 30 or 44 for that matter and make it into a front diff? Shouldn't be too hard for a regular driveshaft/machine shop to do. Set it up with those new CV's and we got a bulletproof front end for 33's that can run any gear ratio made for the D30. D30's are also dirt cheap cause everyone rips em out of theirs Wranglers.


Well as far the the YJ D30 goes your right that the strength of the center housing is not thought of as a problem and that 33's are considered the largest tire to run (expecially if you still have the even bigger turd rear axle, the D35) but that front end is a turd. Why do you think the YJ people don't want them? Heck, I've got two in my shop that are basicly very big paper weights. Maybe ask over at places like www.Pirate4x4.com to see what have to say about the durablity of the D30.
But I think you missed the point. Our D30a set-up is just as big of a turd as the example I was tring to use...the D30. Just like a stock or near stock YJ with factory axles, it's fine for street and light wheeling. Both the D30 and D30a are "light duty" units. What happens is as you tackle issues, you can now wheel better/harder and as we tackle the current issues with the D30a, new weak points will have to be tackled. For example on the D30 again...problem: vacume dico fails, fix: locker or Posi-Lok. Then problem: 260x u-joints, fix: 297x, CTMs. Etc, Etc, Etc...it keeps going until you've spent thousads of $ into a axle that will never be a strong as a big spline and big brake axle like a D44, D60, or Ford 9". After hubs, chromo shafts, brake lines, master cylinder and more; you find that you just dumped alot of money into polishing a turd, and it's still a turd and that you wish you would have put that $ into a better starting point (axle). I'm sure most of us here have found by now that wheeling is a bit of an addiction! I'm telling ya, the more you push the KJ; the more your going to what to push it even futher; just like the Wrangler people do.
Author:  krazz1e [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
My image hosting place is dead otherwise I would draw a pic, so here's the best I could find online:

Image
Image

you can see in this pic the IFS diff does not go up with the tires as much, what i mean is you get more clearance on obsticales with SFA, maybe not in park on a flat road, but as you go over something both tires push the axle up therefore your diff is less likely to get hit by an object.


flex

Image
Image
Author:  bennybmn [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 1:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Those last two pics are a GREAT argument for SFA!
Author:  Skyjump136 [ Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Agreed. I did misunderstand your post then. I thought you were referring to going up with larger tires sizes, not with tires on rocks, boulders, etc.
Author:  kickit_in4wheel [ Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:04 am ]
Post subject: 
As bad as this may sound on behalf of jeeps in General, since I am a KJ driver but a lover of all jeeps, I really am eager to see what happens once Jeep switches the Wrangler over to IFS. It's coming eventually, and soon the "other jeep" guys like us will be just like the wrangler guys- all trying to figure out what to do without a factory solid axle.

Rick
Author:  ZachMan [ Fri Dec 23, 2005 10:55 am ]
Post subject: 
kickit_in4wheel wrote:
As bad as this may sound on behalf of jeeps in General, since I am a KJ driver but a lover of all jeeps, I really am eager to see what happens once Jeep switches the Wrangler over to IFS. It's coming eventually, and soon the "other jeep" guys like us will be just like the wrangler guys- all trying to figure out what to do without a factory solid axle.

Rick


Its not happening for a looong time. The new Wrnaglers are SFA and will stay like that a loong while or Jeep knows they will lose customers.
Author:  krazz1e [ Fri Dec 23, 2005 12:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah new wranglers is confirmed SFA and they will have a model that has 4 doors.

The wrangler is really the last out of the box extermly capable, easily moddied 4x4 vehcile, if they drop the SFA that is really going to create a lot of stink, although I won't say they won't do it, but I think they will bring the SFA back after a couple years of IFS on a wrangler.

I like my KJ and it drives great on road and does very well offroad, let's not forget even with 31" tires we are still very capable..... but eventually we all want bigger and better and when we retire our KJ as a primary DD we start to look at SFA and bigger IFS conversion. Fact may be, if your wanting this it's cheaper to go somewhere else..... but if you go this route you'll have one badass looking vechile, custom.
Author:  Eddo [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 12:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
The KJ w/ a small lift and 31s is really pretty darn capable as most people already know. It can definetly hold it's own with a similarly modded vehicle. Plus the driver makes the biggest difference, not IFS or tire size. My KJ is more of a DD then a trail rig so I am happy with all the compromises. Plus the IFS on the KJ has more travel than most IFS set-ups out there so it is not all bad. Alot better than the torsion bar set-up w/ short arms that was shown in the pics above.

However, that new Wrangler is sure going to be sweet if the rumors are right. Rubicon edition with 33s, lockers, winch, 4-doors, and removable panel hard top. Just can't wait a couple years till they bring out a CRD one in 2008. Then pickup a good used one or new one a year or so later when the hype has worn off for a good deal.
Author:  ManicMechanicJoe [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
You can already get a CRD wrangler. When my buddy was getting his F250 lifted, we were at Burnsville off road and the owner was transplanting a 2.8 CRD into a Rubicon!!! It was wild looking and I will admit I cried. Then I saw his Hemi Jeep Wrangler and the Viper powered wrangler. Burnsville Off Road in minnesota-check it out if ever get out my way.
Author:  Eddo [ Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
ManicMechanicJoe wrote:
You can already get a CRD wrangler. When my buddy was getting his F250 lifted, we were at Burnsville off road and the owner was transplanting a 2.8 CRD into a Rubicon!!! It was wild looking and I will admit I cried. Then I saw his Hemi Jeep Wrangler and the Viper powered wrangler. Burnsville Off Road in minnesota-check it out if ever get out my way.


I've seen the CRD Rubicon and the Hemi or v10 Wrangler. Man those are some sweet Jeeps. When I win the lottery I will have both a Hemi and CRD Wrangler.
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/