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Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=53195		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  johnny_posc [ Sun May 30, 2010 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
Alrighty, first off I'm a new KJ owner. After 12 years of a dedicated relationship I had to sell my 97 TJ. Needed something a little more "family friendly." I've only had my KJ for about a month but dang I love it. Lot's of power and it's nice to have actual windows and other conveniences. I do sometimes miss my tent on wheels.

Anyway, to the point now. Had an overheating issue today. Made a couple stops while the wife went in to do some things. Engine running at idle on both stops for just about 5-10 minutes. It was a hot day as well. First stop the A/C was running really didn't notice anything since I was trying to keep the twins entertained in the back. Second stop, No A/C, started smelling coolant. Only when I started to drive away did I see my temp was running extremely high. Touching the red but not pegged all the way over.

Turns out the fan isn't running. Ran it at idle until temp starting going up again. Hovered at 1/2 for a while but slowly crept up and fan never kicked on. So either the fan is bad or some relay. how can I figure out where the problem is? And not sure if this is connected but when the A/C is running everything is fine at speed but idling i might as well just roll down the windows. It's just blowing warm air out.

forgive me is this is either, just rambling about a simple problem, or a waste of letters. for some reason I'm just confused today.

Thanks :JEEPIN:
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Sun May 30, 2010 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
What year KJ?

Older KJ's have a dedicated fan relay mounted about 10" below the battery,circled in the pic below.

Image

The dealership has a updated version that is better then what came originally,do not get a aftermarket one as they are junk.About $50 from the dealership and a common issue as the heat up and melt the internals and the updated OEM one has a massive heatsink on it.


Newer KJ's,I believe '05+ but not 100% sure,located the fan relay in the fuse box under the hood.
Author:  johnny_posc [ Sun May 30, 2010 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
it's an '03. I was thinking about running some power to the fan to see if it could be the motor but just not sure about what gets hooked up where. basically I've got the blue and black wires but not sure which is ground or power.

Thanks for the pic too. If I get a chance to test and the motor and rule it out I'll get the relay.

And love your KJ by the way.
Author:  johnny_posc [ Sun May 30, 2010 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
haha. just noticed you also responded to my same post on jeepforum.com. figure i need all the help i can get. And thanks for the response again. :-)r
Author:  RED_KJ_666 [ Mon May 31, 2010 11:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
I've had similar problems..... Removed my fan checked it with direct power after running a hose into the back of the motor and it works again... Mud gets in there. I learned from LibertyFever that there are 3 pins in the fan connection the center pin is Common Ground one is High Speed Power and one is Low Speed Power. While you have your out Get your garden hose out and run water through the back of your rad towards the front I guarantee you get a lot of dirt/Debris Then run water in through the front of the rad towards the motor note more dirt/debris I suggest you repeat this process until the water comes through clean.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Mon May 31, 2010 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
RED_KJ_666 wrote:
I've had similar problems..... Removed my fan checked it with direct power after running a hose into the back of the motor and it works again... Mud gets in there. I learned from LibertyFever that there are 3 pins in the fan connection the center pin is Common Ground one is High Speed Power and one is Low Speed Power. While you have your out Get your garden hose out and run water through the back of your rad towards the front I guarantee you get a lot of dirt/Debris Then run water in through the front of the rad towards the motor note more dirt/debris I suggest you repeat this process until the water comes through clean.

Older KJ's like the '02 and '03's only have a 2 wire fan connector,only has a 1 speed electric fan.
Author:  johnny_posc [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
Alright, figured out the fan just ain't spinnin. On top of that I did have a small leak in the radiator that I wasn't too worried about until it overheated because of the fan. Now there's more coolant leaking soooooooo.......time to replace the radiator. I've looked around a little but can't really see exactly what I need to do to get this thing out. I've done a couple on my TJ but it looked less complicated. Anyone know of any writeups or helpful posts on the subject?

figured I was gonna replace it eventually so why not now. Plus the previous owner had the wrong coolant in it so everything needs flushed and replaced. I got the Libby so I wouldn't have to work on it as much, but so far I'm still finding things to do. The wife has that "I told you so look" right now.

:pepper:
Author:  LibertyFever [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
Okay I'm assuming you have only an electric rad fan no mechanical clutch fan so it shouldn't be that hard to pull the fan & rad out.

I've had some experience with transmission overheating problems, checkout my posting;
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=52157

Have you checked the obvious things? I say that because while I was dealing with an overheated tranny I never thought to check the fuse. Mine was burnt out :oops:

At the rad electric fan you have a connector with three wires, a Blue common wire and two Black wires for Hi & Lo speeds. With a DMM you should be able to measure continuity between the Blue common wire to each Black wire. If you don't read anything, the leads are open then you likely have to open the fan up and try cleaning it. They often get clogged with mud & dirt. If you do get continuity through the fan's leads you can put 12v across the Blue common wire to each Black wire but only briefly. The motor pulls a lot of current and the wires & your fingers will burn up.

The rad's electric fan is pretty simple to pull out and dismantle. I've done it a couple of times and plan to do a small write up c/w pics later this month.

Where is your rad leaking? Do you think a rad shop could braze the leak?
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
LibertyFever wrote:
Okay I'm assuming you have only an electric rad fan no mechanical clutch fan so it shouldn't be that hard to pull the fan & rad out.

I've had some experience with transmission overheating problems, checkout my posting;
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=52157

Have you checked the obvious things? I say that because while I was dealing with an overheated tranny I never thought to check the fuse. Mine was burnt out :oops:

At the rad electric fan you have a connector with three wires, a Blue common wire and two Black wires for Hi & Lo speeds. With a DMM you should be able to measure continuity between the Blue common wire to each Black wire. If you don't read anything, the leads are open then you likely have to open the fan up and try cleaning it. They often get clogged with mud & dirt. If you do get continuity through the fan's leads you can put 12v across the Blue common wire to each Black wire but only briefly. The motor pulls a lot of current and the wires & your fingers will burn up.

The rad's electric fan is pretty simple to pull out and dismantle. I've done it a couple of times and plan to do a small write up c/w pics later this month.

Where is your rad leaking? Do you think a rad shop could braze the leak?

1st easy check should be to pull the connector on the fan relay(in pic above) and if it looks a little burnt and melted replace the relay.Most cooling fan issues on older KJ's is that dang relay.
Author:  Neatus [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
I have an 03 and I have recently had some cooling problems as well. My problem was not the relay...I had a short at the plug that connected the fan to the wire that I think goes to the relay. I rewired the plug and it blows cold A/C and doesn't over heat anymore. note: if you accidentilly hook the wires up wrong the fan will spin backwards and your A/C will blow as hot as your heater. I don't know this from experience. :wink:
Author:  LibertyFever [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
FYI: on my 04 Liberty the rad fan's relays are contained within the fuseblock under the hood. Pulling them out or swapping them will generate error codes.
Author:  johnny_posc [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
I ran direct current to the fan and nothing. took it to my dads shop and tested and there was no power running thru so I'm guessing it's dead. May try popping it apart tomorrow and cleaning to see if I have any better luck.

As far as the radiator goes, it seems as though the leak is coming from the seal from the plastic and the edge. Can't tell the exact spot right now, but when I had it at jeep a few weeks ago they mentioned a small leak. Unfortunately I think that when it overheated, that leak turned into a slightly larger leak so it's getting pulled and replaced for sure. I'm currently looking around for the best deal. Online prices seem good. Went to autozone and a couple other places which gave me the price of around $230 with lifetime warranty. most online is much cheaper but no lifetime warranty so I'm just trying to figure out what to do.

I've replace a couple of radiators when I had my TJ which was super simple. just a few screws and out. this looks like I'm going to have to remove a few more things to get it all out. The fan was easy and is currently in the trunk of my wifes car (don't tell her) but by just looking at the radiator I'm not sure where to start. But then again I haven't started taking any tools to it yet. I've seen the two screws on each side but is that really it?

Anyway, it's going to be a fun little project but I just don't want to spend the money. was hoping to throw on a small lift instead but now that's out the window. Plus I've got a new JVC head unit arriving soon so looks like all my free time is spent working on this dang thing.
Author:  kskj [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
X2 on cleaning out the fan motor. All it take is a little muddy water to keep it from working. I took mine apart 40,000 mile ago when it quit working cleaned out the mud sanded and reseated the motor brushes and it still works great. I am on my third radiator so the one with the warranty may be the way to go. But it does come out easy. And it's all fun just part of owning a Jeep. :lol:
Author:  johnny_posc [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
Fan is just plain busted. tested with direct power....nothing. no continuity at all when hit with a meter. Tried cleaning and still nothing. So new fan is ready and waiting to be installed.

Now heres the fun part. Radiator arrived today. yay. Started ripping things apart. Which it is an absolute pain to get this radiator out. Start looking at both of them and dang, the one they sent has the extra holes which I can assume are for an internal oil cooler. I thought it still wouldn't be a problem since nothing will actually be hooked up to it but I start looking closer and there are two clip on each side of the radiator. On the old one there is a clip and a screw hole, but the replacement has only the clip so the external cooler has nothing to be attached to. Awesome!!! Still trying to find the right one but so far everything I've seen just has the clips and not the mounting areas for the external coolers.

thought I would have everything in and ready to drive to work tomorrow but I guess not. Now I get to wait around to ship this one back and try and get another one here. Fantastic.
Author:  kskj [ Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
I wish I could remember what I did to mine to make it work. The first one I bought was like that. But that one only lasted a year and the plastic end cracked again. So on the third one it came with the right fasteners and it has been on for over a year. Sorry I don't know what brand it is. I also drilled out the rivets on header panel and was able to pull the radiator straight up and out. And just bolted it back on with some countersunk bolts so the next time it goes out it will be easy to change. :lol:
Author:  Quiksilver [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 5:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
kskj wrote:
X2 on cleaning out the fan motor. All it take is a little muddy water to keep it from working. I took mine apart 40,000 mile ago when it quit working cleaned out the mud sanded and reseated the motor brushes and it still works great. I am on my third radiator so the one with the warranty may be the way to go. But it does come out easy. And it's all fun just part of owning a Jeep. :lol:



I have the exact same problem as johnny_posc

Is this easy to do? I live near the sea and beach so i would not be surprised for sand etc to be all up in there.
Author:  johnny_posc [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
my second radiator arrived today and it looks like it's gonna work. There are a second set of clips on the front to hold the oil cooler. I haven't really gotten a chance to work on anything yet since I gotta go to work soon but hopefully the install of this one will go smoothly.

I had the worst time trying to get that crossmember out of the way to remove the radiator and I'm worried about when I try to put everything back in. I just hope that in my frustrations to remove parts i didn't damage anything else. At one point I turned all green and my legs busted out of my pants. JOHNNY ANGRY......JOHNNY SMASH LIBBY!!!
Author:  kskj [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
Quiksilver wrote:
kskj wrote:
X2 on cleaning out the fan motor. All it take is a little muddy water to keep it from working. I took mine apart 40,000 mile ago when it quit working cleaned out the mud sanded and reseated the motor brushes and it still works great. I am on my third radiator so the one with the warranty may be the way to go. But it does come out easy. And it's all fun just part of owning a Jeep. :lol:



I have the exact same problem as johnny_posc

Is this easy to do? I live near the sea and beach so i would not be surprised for sand etc to be all up in there.

.
It is on a gasser I'm not sure on a CRD. I would try to spray it out without taking it apart first. And if that doesn't work. I did this on mine a few years ago and last year in the Ouray jeep safari Mpjeeper had his fan quit after going through a big mud puddle. We took the fan out,then removed the motor from the fan blades. The motor has three or four metal tabs that you bend out of the way and the motor will come apart.Be careful with the brushes and brush springs the are small. Spray it down with electrical contact cleaner or brake cleaner will work. Now on mine I had a brush that had a chunk missing so I had to sand it down so it would ride on the commutator correctly. Then just reinstall.
Author:  johnny_posc [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
IT IS ALIVE!!!

Finally had some time to put the new radiator in today. got everything installed filled it up and let it ran up to temp. Everything seems to be working fine. New Fan kicks on when needed and with A/C on, haven't noticed any leaks yet and I don't have a pressure gauge so I'm just kinda wingin it. At first I didn't have any heat, but now it's blowin darn hot, and when the A/C is on it's blowin darn darn cold. Fantastic. Now the wife can have her care back and I can listen to the new JVC headunit I installed while waiting on parts.

Thanks for the help and listening ya'll.
Author:  jeeplikens [ Sat Jul 24, 2010 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Overheating problems.....and some A/C issues
Kids 02 has been "eating" coolant the past few weeks. At 20 bucks a gal at the stealership, I did some more closer inspection. Found a pin hold leak where coolant was "spraying" out. It appears a stress crack has developed in the top of the ABS part of the tank. Almost in what would be the top front, driverside corner. There are what looks like a few other "cracks" or scratches but this one spot has the leak. Soooo, costs, quick fixes, yada yada.. First thought, clean off spot, rough it up, 3 coats of high pressure/temp epoxy and move on. But my 16 year old drives it so another option I heard is to take it to a radiator shop, have the top of tank replaced. While I'm at it, have it flushed and replace coolant with the green stuff that's cheaper and on every shelf of any 7/11.. :pepper:

Suggestions, ideas? I had an 04 and I have a 09 Libo. Never thought these thinks suffered from 'stress'.

Thanks in advance...
:juggle:
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