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CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
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Author:  LibertyCRD [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:35 am ]
Post subject:  CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
So I had vibration. Checked rear U-joints...they were trashed. Put new ones in. Ran smooth as butter all Summer long. Amazingly smooth and vibration free for a Jeep, especially a diesel Jeep.

In October, vibration returns. I'm talking steering wheel bobbing on the interstate. Pulled rear shaft again, U-joints appear to be OK. Regreased them again, reinstalled. Vibration still there. Had tires balanced twice with different types of weights both times. Vibration still there. Must be the front driveshaft then, right? Ordered new CV joint for front shaft. Pulled front shaft last night. NO splits or cracks in EITHER boot. Both ends of the shaft look to be flawless and move smooth by hand.

So now what? Is it possible to have a bad CV joint even if the boots are fine? I guess I need to hit the interstate after work and see if the vibration is gone with the front shaft out. Could a driveshaft get out of balance? I haven't bent it on anything, but I am lost here. Chasing vibration is ANNOYING.
Author:  tommudd [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
Yes a CV can look fine but be bad,
well maybe not so much bad but......
if I were you my first place to go would be the right side
the intermediate shaft gets rusted/stuck to the CV and it can sometimes feel like the whole frontend is coming out.
If so you'll need a new CV and Intermediate shaft
The splines will be almost gone so you can not reuse either one
Eric at automotivepartsunlimited can get the intermediate shaft for you
fairly simple repair
Driveshafts do not just go out of balance
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
So how do you test for a rusted CV/intermediate shaft? Visually only? Or is there a method to see if everything is moving freely?
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
LibertyCRD wrote:
So how do you test for a rusted CV/intermediate shaft? Visually only? Or is there a method to see if everything is moving freely?

You have to pull out the passenger side CV axle.
Author:  rockwerks [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
LibertyCRD wrote:
So I had vibration. Checked rear U-joints...they were trashed. Put new ones in. Ran smooth as butter all Summer long. Amazingly smooth and vibration free for a Jeep, especially a diesel Jeep.

In October, vibration returns. I'm talking steering wheel bobbing on the interstate. Pulled rear shaft again, U-joints appear to be OK. Regreased them again, reinstalled. Vibration still there. Had tires balanced twice with different types of weights both times. Vibration still there. Must be the front driveshaft then, right? Ordered new CV joint for front shaft. Pulled front shaft last night. NO splits or cracks in EITHER boot. Both ends of the shaft look to be flawless and move smooth by hand.

So now what? Is it possible to have a bad CV joint even if the boots are fine? I guess I need to hit the interstate after work and see if the vibration is gone with the front shaft out. Could a driveshaft get out of balance? I haven't bent it on anything, but I am lost here. Chasing vibration is ANNOYING.


If you are feeling it in the steering wheel then the problem is in the front end not a driveshaft.

could be ball joints, worn steering ends, or wheel bearings causing the issue
Author:  tommudd [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
rockwerks wrote:
LibertyCRD wrote:
So I had vibration. Checked rear U-joints...they were trashed. Put new ones in. Ran smooth as butter all Summer long. Amazingly smooth and vibration free for a Jeep, especially a diesel Jeep.

In October, vibration returns. I'm talking steering wheel bobbing on the interstate. Pulled rear shaft again, U-joints appear to be OK. Regreased them again, reinstalled. Vibration still there. Had tires balanced twice with different types of weights both times. Vibration still there. Must be the front driveshaft then, right? Ordered new CV joint for front shaft. Pulled front shaft last night. NO splits or cracks in EITHER boot. Both ends of the shaft look to be flawless and move smooth by hand.

So now what? Is it possible to have a bad CV joint even if the boots are fine? I guess I need to hit the interstate after work and see if the vibration is gone with the front shaft out. Could a driveshaft get out of balance? I haven't bent it on anything, but I am lost here. Chasing vibration is ANNOYING.


If you are feeling it in the steering wheel then the problem is in the front end not a driveshaft.

could be ball joints, worn steering ends, or wheel bearings causing the issue



Or CV/ Intermediate shaft rusted together, they will cause a pretty good vibration
had one here in the garage that you would swear the whole front was coming out of it alomst
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
I've had the d*** front end apart way too often lately. I'm not taking it apart again to chase a vibration. What a PITA.

I will look into the wheel bearing possibility though. I already checked my ball joints and they are very tight with no play. Steering linkages... will have those checked in the next few weeks when I go to get my alignment done.

The vibration is all over... you can feel it in the seats, console, etc. But it's most noticeable through the steering wheel. I hope it isn't bearings.. can't afford that right now.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
LibertyCRD wrote:
I've had the d*** front end apart way too often lately. I'm not taking it apart again to chase a vibration. What a PITA.

I will look into the wheel bearing possibility though. I already checked my ball joints and they are very tight with no play. Steering linkages... will have those checked in the next few weeks when I go to get my alignment done.

The vibration is all over... you can feel it in the seats, console, etc. But it's most noticeable through the steering wheel. I hope it isn't bearings.. can't afford that right now.

With the front hub bearings you rarely get a vib unless they are very bad,they more likely will make a growling noise.Also a bearing can be bad and have no play in it.Granted you can get new bearings for less then $500 for high quality ones and takes less then 1 hour to change them.
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
So does the inner splined shaft on the CV axle joints slide in and out of the intermediate shaft during suspension travel? Is that why having it rusted together causes the vibes? Cause I was thinking the CVs stay permanently affixed inside the intermediate shaft so if that was the case I don't see why it would be bad to have it frozen up.
Author:  rockwerks [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
tjkj2002 wrote:
]
With the front hub bearings you rarely get a vib unless they are very bad,they more likely will make a growling noise.Also a bearing can be bad and have no play in it.Granted you can get new bearings for less then $500 for high quality ones and takes less then 1 hour to change them.


Rockauto.com Timken unit bearings run from 135.00 to 206.00 each for the 05 Liberty
Author:  tommudd [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 4:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
LibertyCRD wrote:
So does the inner splined shaft on the CV axle joints slide in and out of the intermediate shaft during suspension travel? Is that why having it rusted together causes the vibes? Cause I was thinking the CVs stay permanently affixed inside the intermediate shaft so if that was the case I don't see why it would be bad to have it frozen up.


There is some movement there, has to be as everything has to give some as you drive. Its not like it slides a long ways but more like slight movement if that makes sense. And yes if they are froze together you'll get a lot of vibrations and it will get worse and worse. The intermediate shaft goes into the CV , its splined on both ends.
Mine were just barely making noise at low speeds, little vibration, one of the ones I removed from another members the splines were almost gone!
Not the best pics but you get the idea
Image
Image
Image
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
Wow.

Well, I took the Jeep on the interstate after work today with the front driveshaft gone... and the vibration is still there! So it is definitly not the front shaft. :furious:

I've put so much **** money into this jeep already that it's ridiculous. Now I could be looking at hundreds for a CV axle shaft, intermediate shaft, and then one of my Saturdays to take the front end apart AGAIN.

On top of this.. I've got the timing belt change and misc. items to do which is $750.

If things don't get better FAST, the KJs days might be numbered. I'm really getting tired of wrenching on it...and the diesel engine has NOT been the problem....sadly.

Sigh... gotta' figure out where to go next now.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
LibertyCRD wrote:
Wow.

Well, I took the Jeep on the interstate after work today with the front driveshaft gone... and the vibration is still there! So it is definitly not the front shaft. :furious:

I've put so much **** money into this jeep already that it's ridiculous. Now I could be looking at hundreds for a CV axle shaft, intermediate shaft, and then one of my Saturdays to take the front end apart AGAIN.

On top of this.. I've got the timing belt change and misc. items to do which is $750.

If things don't get better FAST, the KJs days might be numbered. I'm really getting tired of wrenching on it...and the diesel engine has NOT been the problem....sadly.

Sigh... gotta' figure out where to go next now.

Part of owning a Jeep,and the real fun in my book.Plus nearing 100k parts will start to wearout anyways,same with any other vehicle no matter what name is on it.
Author:  tommudd [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
Eric at automotivepartsunlimited will have the intermediate shaft were about 70-75 I think
tell him I sent he'll get a kick out of it! ( inside joke)
Rebuilt CVs from NAPA ( only ones I would use ) are 55 bucks around here with core
replacing one is a hour job at most
Author:  ATXKJ [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
one other quick test - rotate the tires and see if the vibration is still there
Author:  rockwerks [ Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
LibertyCRD wrote:
Wow.

Well, I took the Jeep on the interstate after work today with the front driveshaft gone... and the vibration is still there! So it is definitly not the front shaft. :furious:

I've put so much **** money into this jeep already that it's ridiculous. Now I could be looking at hundreds for a CV axle shaft, intermediate shaft, and then one of my Saturdays to take the front end apart AGAIN.

On top of this.. I've got the timing belt change and misc. items to do which is $750.

If things don't get better FAST, the KJs days might be numbered. I'm really getting tired of wrenching on it...and the diesel engine has NOT been the problem....sadly.

Sigh... gotta' figure out where to go next now.


How have you tested the front end steering and ball joint parts and the unit bearings?
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
Tom..really? I thought the CVs were a lot more than that.


Well I get some roar from the front, but I really think it's my tires. I haven't specifically tested the wheel bearings. I just assume it's the tires because the roar is very speed specific. I only get it really at about 25-35 MPH.

I did test the ball joints...they are tight. My Jeep also did have the recall completed by the previous owner.

I have not tested the steering linkage ends but will do that soon when I have my alignment done.

Next thing I am going to do is put the front shaft back in, remove the rear shaft again and check for vibration. This way, I can totally eliminate the driveshafts as a possibility for sure. Once I know it's NOT a driveshaft or joint... then I'll start digging into the front end. Sigh.. wish I had a heated garage.
Author:  jimjeep0 [ Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
I went through same exact sounding issue a while back and it ended up being what Tommudd said. Started out with little vib and got worse and worse. Got to where a was praying it wouldn't fall apart while driving. The picture he posted looks brand new compared to how rusted up and worn mine were. Found a local guy to do for 200 plus parts as I didnt think I could do om my own. I believe with weight off passenger tire I could grab where shaft goes into "cradle" and move it up and down.
good luck
Author:  RED_KJ_666 [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
I also had an Intermediate shaft seized to the CV and it ruined my intermediate Shaft. Exact same Vibration that you have.
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CV joint - driveshaft... have questions
Well, confirmed today that it is not the driveshafts or joints.

Looks like I get to buy a new CV joint/intermediate shaft now. :?

Two questions:

I can't find the intermediate shaft listed at any auto parts stores. Is it under a different name?

Also, should I buy "new" CV shafts, or remanufactured OEM CV shafts? Both are the same price.
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