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Reasons to not get Frankenlift?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6764		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  onespeeder [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Reasons to not get Frankenlift?
Can anyone convince me why I shouldn't get a Frankenlift? It seems like a worthy product and from all I've read on here, people seem to really like them over the others on the market. The only real downside seems to be the price and before I commit, I was just wondering if there were any reasons I shouldn't.

Oh, yeah, I guess you'll probably want to know what I plan on doing, too. Uh, I like the mud, but no serious bogs, I really like the rocks (smooth granite), sand is ok, backcountry trails and adventure stuff is pretty cool. Quite frankly, I have not been wheeling in my lib, due to the lack of prowess. I still have the stock tires on, although that will change when I lift. I guess it just seems like if I'm going to wheel it at all, it has to be lifted. I say this, because the trails around here that I have wheeled on were in my '98 TJ and just a 2" lift and 31's made a huge difference.

I don't know if it's necessary, but it's an '03 Factory Lowered Limited 4x4, selec-trac, open diffs.

Thanks in advance for toleration of my noob-ness...
Author:  pixeldzn [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:14 pm ]
Post subject: 
go get it!
Author:  elephantrider [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
get the rusty's complete coil lift, its the same as frankenlift except the front strut / spring assembly isnt put together like it is on the frankenlift. rusty's lift is about $300 cheaper.

im sure im gonna get beat up for posting this!! lol bring it on!
Author:  dirtykj [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
No, Rusty's coil spring lift is not the same as Frankenlift. The rear, for instance, does not replace factory coil springs. In addition, the shock bushings were not the right size and by the time you squeeze the brackets (part of the unibody) in so it's all nice and tight you will have bent the brackets in quite a bit. Same thing for the lower shock mounts in the rear. Rusty supplies washers (never got mine) to "fix" these issues ...

Oh wait, Rusty's kit doesn't have bumpstop in the rear either.

I stuffed mine all the time before I swapped it out for Frankenlift. You can see the rub marks in the wheel well ...
Author:  Se7enLC [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
dirtykj wrote:
No, Rusty's coil spring lift is not the same as Frankenlift. The rear, for instance, does not replace factory coil springs.


It does replace the factory springs. Not sure what kit you had, but rusty's is a full coil replacement.

From Rusty's Offroad:
This kit is a true suspension kit, no spacers or blocks. 4 coil springs, a pair of Rusty's twin tube hydro shocks for the rear and a pair of Rusty's performance long travel gas struts. These performance parts are designed by 3-D computer modeling which retains the factory ride while giving the clearance needed for larger tires to run on the most rugged off road terrain. The kit will allow clearance for a 31 inch tire. A strut compressor is required for installation, installation time will vary with experience and tools (3 to 5 hours).

Quote:
In addition, the shock bushings were not the right size and by the time you squeeze the brackets (part of the unibody) in so it's all nice and tight you will have bent the brackets in quite a bit. Same thing for the lower shock mounts in the rear. Rusty supplies washers (never got mine) to "fix" these issues ...

Oh wait, Rusty's kit doesn't have bumpstop in the rear either.

I stuffed mine all the time before I swapped it out for Frankenlift. You can see the rub marks in the wheel well ...


Frankenlift is a better kit. If you're looking for reasons not to get a Frankenlift, money is really the only one. You can technically lift the jeep for $200 or less if you want to get a spacer lift. If you at least want a suspension lift, you can get away with spending $275 less and getting a rusty's coil lift. But then you spend some of that $275 getting the new shocks, bump stop, other assorted hardware. And some more renting a spring compressor (or paying somebody to install it). (The frankenlift comes pre-assembled).
Author:  Guyute1210 [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
dirtykj wrote:
No, Rusty's coil spring lift is not the same as Frankenlift. The rear, for instance, does not replace factory coil springs. In addition, the shock bushings were not the right size and by the time you squeeze the brackets (part of the unibody) in so it's all nice and tight you will have bent the brackets in quite a bit. Same thing for the lower shock mounts in the rear. Rusty supplies washers (never got mine) to "fix" these issues ...

Oh wait, Rusty's kit doesn't have bumpstop in the rear either.

I stuffed mine all the time before I swapped it out for Frankenlift. You can see the rub marks in the wheel well ...


And Rusty's doesn't use OME springs, and their springs seem to sag after a year or so, even quicker with ARB and/or winch. I still had to use 2 washers on the top of my Rancho's but the bottom was snug fine.
Author:  camper [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 5:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
no the frankenlift kit is not the same as the rusty's kit but I'm sorry dirty, I don't agree with you....

I have an '04 sport....I bought the rusty's coil replacement kit before the frankenlift was on the market....it replaces all four springs and all four shocks....I could afford the all-j frankenlift and would choose to purchase it because I wish to support those guys that support us.....and I don't doubt that it's a very good product.....but I have their boulderbars and transmission skid, and I purchased the detroit true-trac for the front differential from them, so I don't feel too bad about defending a alternative suspension kit that I think is a good value....

the complaints about the rear shocks being poor quality are overstated....I installed the kit myself and when I slipped the rear shocks in, I immediately saw that there was side-to-side slop in the mounts.....the shock eyes where the bolts go are slightly narrow for the mount locations....all you need to do is go the lowes or home depot and purchase a handfull of fender washers....5/8" inside diameter, about 1 3/8" outside diameter.....maybe all of 10 cents apiece....remove the top bolt and slip one or two washers inside the mount to take up some of the slop....do the same for the bottom mount if needed....this is also very to easy to fix later at home if you had someone else do the install and they didn't catch this....

Image

I noticed this small difference in fit when I installed my kit so I put the washers in at that time....I have never had any problems or noises with my rusty's lift....I've been to moab, jeep jamborees, and local trail rides and the kit works fine....I have 245/75/16 bfg at/ko's with no rubbing and no fender well modifications....over 25k miles.....



Image

I'm sure that there are some guys here who have first hand experience with the rusty's kit and may disagree with me but there are also several here who will back me up....adding a couple washers is entirely within the range of expectations when working on any kind of machine, especially a modification of a jeep....people who say the product is bad are more than likely just repeating something they've read and the issue gets accepted as fact....I recently installed a frankenlift kit on an '02 KJ....it came with rancho shocks for the rear and it had the same loose fit....we put one washer inside the top mount....I also helped install a rockfather kit on an '05 and we had rear shock bushing issues with it too....

I'm not a shock absorber expert and I'm sure that the rancho shocks are a great product.....the same tenneco corporation manufactures shocks and struts for original equipment autos and trucks, for monroe, ranchos, and probably the ones rusty uses...they just have different design specs....the bright yellow old man emu shocks are the same color as monroe so I wouldn't be surprised if tenneco manufactured those also....

and as for installation, I can tell you that just because the frankenlift front struts come preassembled, that doesn't mean it's easy to install them.....getting the lower clevis mount aligned for the bottom bolt is a real challenge because of the height of the coil assembly.....I like the kit and recommend it but it fits in the front pretty tight.....
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
I love my ome lift which uses the same coils. The ride in the rear is awsome over stock.
Author:  fireman1028 [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
you shouldn't get the Frankenlift if: you dont like talking to hot chicks (Heather) :oops:
Author:  onespeeder [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well I've been calling around all day and I only found 1 shop that would even touch the strut assembly. Everyone kept going on about "liabilty this and that". So where did you guys that have the Rusty's get your struts assembled? Or did you just do them yourselves with rented spring compressors?

Also, the description on the Rusty's doesn't say anything about any hardware or bumpstops or anything. Does it not come with any of that? Do you just use the stock hardware to reassemble the struts?
Author:  Jeepjeepster [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
I do not believe it comes with bumpstops.

I didnt know heather was hot. :shock:

I think I have some questions about my lift, I may give them a call. 8)
Author:  elephantrider [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 9:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
see?? i told you that would cause some major comments...! lol

the rusty's lift is the same...minus..

the bump stops ( so when is LESS articulation a good thing on this post??? )
the shocks are loose until you tighten the be-jesus out of them

rusty's lift DOES come with complete front strut assembly and rear springs/shocks, though you do have to assemble it, which is not difficult ( as long as you have air tools and spring compressors )

i think that about covers it, oh, except rusty's is $300 cheaper.
didnt i already mention that?
Author:  jpzkj [ Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
fireman1028 wrote:
you shouldn't get the Frankenlift if: you dont like talking to hot chicks (Heather) :oops:



Paging Mr Thomas.....Paging Mr. Thomas :P
Author:  Tokyojoe [ Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:18 am ]
Post subject: 
One: There are not 4 shocks on the KJ. Two rear shocks and two front struts. Rusty's replaces all of them. The springs are replaced in the rear and the front.
Two: Who needs bump stops except for what comes with the KJ
Three: Most people did the strut work themselves or took the original assembly and the Rusty's parts to a place (like Pep Boys) and had them do it.
Four: Rusty's supports the KJ also. Maybe not as much as others, but they do support KJs.
Five: The Frankenlift is an awesome lift, but more expensive.


You will have to decide what you want to get. You will get all kinds of answers like what you have seen above....or below...depending on which way you get posts.
Author:  kickit_in4wheel [ Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:58 am ]
Post subject: 
If you are looking for someone to convince you not to get a Frankenlift, maybe it isn't for you. The Frankenlift is a suspension lift put together with carefully chosen parts that all work together to make a fine lift for the KJ Liberty. The folks at AllJ are wonderful, they really have put alot into the design and testing of the lift and they back their product. There are other excellent and effective lift options as well, like Rusty's kit, the skyjacker kit, the RRO Rockfather 2 kit, and the Old Man Emu lift kit. All of these are suspension lifts that utilize new coil springs. And they all are used by members of this web forum. There have been problems here and there with each, I'm sure. But for the most part, the people that have problems with a lift are those that are unwilling to make some sacrifices, and are unsatisfied with some of the negative aspects of altering their vehicle. If you have a vehicle that is still under warranty, it will remain that way, but jeep will not cover the lift components. The center of gravity will be higher. The jeep will feel a little different, because it is a little different. If you add larger tires, expect the gas mileage to be affected, and probably for the worse. Your acceleration will suffer a little as well, because the larger tires will alter your final drive ratio unless you switch gears. You may have more wind noise while driving at speed on the road, because more air is traveling under the car. I added larger tires when I lifted mine, and I now feel that the braking power is not as sufficient. The fact is, jeep builds these things like they do for a reason, because for the most part, as a system, it is balanced. This is the same as if you put a huge, high power engine in a car to make it faster, and then later realized that it eats lots of gas and has to be tuned all the time. Or maybe putting a pool in at your home and then the insurance goes up and you have to spend more on pool cleaning supplies...

The bottom line is, if you wish lift your jeep to improve the ride height, suspension travel, ground clearance, flex, etc, you also need to realize that there will be some sacrifices. If you are ready for that, then the frankenlift is an excellent option, though it is not the only one.

Rick
Author:  4wdParakeet [ Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:13 am ]
Post subject: 
Well said. I agree whole heartedly. I'm they guy that had my KJ axle high in mud less than 3000 miles. I would have lifted it alot sooner had the money been there. But I'm glad that the money wasn't there because when I got my KJ the Frankenlift wasn't near as popular as it is now. I have the Frankenlift and love it. I sit more like a Jeep should sit, I ride like a Jeep should ride, I can go places that makes stock TJ's cry, and I stick out like the red-headed stepchild in the two states that I roam. I think it was the best upgrade that I could get. And the people at ALL J are great supporters of the KJ fanatics here. After ordering my Frankenlift and chatting with Heather, that is my first choice when I go for my next major mod.

Parakeet
Author:  RespectMyLibertay [ Fri Mar 17, 2006 1:46 am ]
Post subject: 
Bumpstops do limit articulation, into your fender well linings :roll: Now what's the point of ramming tires into plastic? That said, I have the Frankenlift and never installed my bumpstops. I do rub on fender well linings when at full flex, but I never cared, and 8,000 miles later it still hasn't made a difference on the tires or the rub spots.

If money is an issue, get the Rusty's. If you are able to spend the $775, get the Frankenlift.
Author:  kickit_in4wheel [ Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Those without bumpstops who want them (and haven't already made your own, which should be pretty easy to do) can get a nice set from Energy Suspension products at autozone for $14.99, and that includes the hardware.
Author:  onespeeder [ Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:30 am ]
Post subject: 
You make good points, all of which I understand.

This post was not really for anyone on this forum to convince me not to get the Frankenlift. It was more to get real opinions about the lift and whether people that are running them, are experiencing issues that would make me believe that any of the others on the market are a more worthy buy. It wouldn't seem so. The biggest points anyone has mentioned is that the Rusty's coil lift is cheaper, but not as easy to install, due to the strut assembly.

Some who have it(the Rusty's) say good things, some say not so good things. But I have read very little of the not so good about the Frankenlift. I understand that everyone is going to promote their lift, because it's what they run. Unless it has caused problems later, like the RRO OTT. A lot of people bought and installed that lift, because it may have been all that was available at the time, and now some of them are unhappy.

The Frankenlift seems to have several miles on it and most, if any, of the kinks worked out. Plus any money that I save on the lift would only go to other parts, like Moog lower ball joints anyways. I'm pretty sure I have made my decision, but still appreciate comments, opinions and suggestions. And thanks to all who have posted.
Author:  TheChucklesStart [ Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
When I was searching for the difference between the two lifts, it seemed to me that the Frankenlift had more flex (by a little bit), was .5" taller and had upper ball joint contact.

If you need more height, more flex, but not a night and day difference like the lift is, and it is worth $300 plus upper ball joint contact (which you can solve and get a little more flex if you pay for Al's A arms) then that is what you should go for, otherwise, it may not be worth it.

Both seem like quality products, and the reason why you see more people with problems about rusty's lift might be that people who bought that lift might not feel that that extra is worth it and may not feel that the "problems" that come with any mod are as worth it as the people that have the frankin lift (ie different mind set about modifications.

Me, I personally love my franken lift, but thats because it made such a huge difference over driving stock (I no longer bottom out on washed out sand ditches). Get whatever you want, you'll love it.
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