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 Post subject: Starter gremlins after rebuild.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:24 am 
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Posts: 5
Starter sounds like a machine gun and sticks on the flywheel.

2006 Liberty 3.7L automatic

The good:
- Battery fully charged and tested as just wonderful.
- Starter passes all tests (at the parts store).
- All terminals and connections cleaned and shiny.
- I get battery voltage at the starter at all contacts when the circuits are active.
- Starter relay is working fine - swapped it out with several others just to be sure.
- Everything else on the vehicle seems to indicate a strong battery (high beams, blaring tunes, rolling windows up and washing windshield at the same time with no noticeable loss of power).
- Crank turns smoothly using a 21mm socket & breaker bar - I seriously doubt any flywheel or torque converter alignment problems.
- Never removed the torque converter during engine rebuild.
- I am extremely confident I got the timing correct.
- Before the rebuild, old starter worked just fine it's just that the busted stub of the connecting rod was slapping around.
- Used jumper cables for both positive and ground to bypass potentially bad wiring with no change in behavior (indicating wiring is probably not an issue).

The bad:
- starter sounds like a machine gun - even when removed from bell housing and starter housing grounded to the engine block with someone turning the key or using a remote starting trigger (replaced with a re-manufactured starter - same problem).
- Bendix gets hung on the flywheel until I rotate the crank from the front - then the bendix retracts.
- Peering through the torque converter dust cover I see that the bendix should travel about a 1/2" deeper (i.e. shimming the starter would make things worse).
- Low beams dim dramatically when trying to crank the engine.

The ugly:
- Had to get a short block from the dealership because crossing a river sounded like fun at the time. Rocks gave way and water got into the intake - connecting rod disintegrated after blowing out both sides of the bed plate casting. It was fresh water with the tide going out - submerged for only 2 hours (I didn't find any corroded wiring - rest of electrical system seems to be working just fine, even the speakers).
- Not much room to play around with the starter.

My questions:

#1 Why is the starter rapidly clicking both in and out of the bell housing, but not at the parts store? I have tried 2 different fully tested and functional batteries and a 200 amp battery charger with the same result. Also, the replacement starter was a bit longer and the bendix shaft throw seemed shorter. I am taking it to the dealership in the morning to compare it to a factory starter.

#2 Is the flywheel in correctly? I installed the flywheel with the recesses for the torque converter bolts facing the engine - The bulged out side faces the torque converter. This made sense to me because the bolt holes on the torque converter are drilled into steel flat bar that will not fit into the recesses - and the bolts are probably too short to pass through the flywheel and an air gap. But I have to ask because the bendix doesn't seem to go deep enough to make good contact.

#3 Where does the wiring harness for the starter wires go - over or under the steering knuckle? (Yeah, I should have taken pictures).

My comments: I hope the engineer who decided to cram so much in the way of the starter is sterile! I am attempting to start this Jeep with the exhaust bolts and an oxygen sensor out. Too much of a pain to mess with while resolving a starter issue.

In case you are wondering, I have cleaned everything out and replaced all fluids.

No cylinder heads or sockeye salmon were harmed as a result of my aquatic adventures.


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 Post subject: Re: Starter gremlins after rebuild.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:46 am 
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Posts: 1404
Location: The WV Panhandle
Did the flywheel mount like this?

Image

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2007 Wrangler - traded

2010 Wrangler Rubicon


Last edited by John3:17 on Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Starter gremlins after rebuild.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:02 am
Posts: 5
Yes, thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Starter gremlins after rebuild.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:37 pm 
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Update: I compared a starter at the dealership with one from the parts store, they were different. Got my money back and grabbed the one from the dealership. Dang, it's really hard to be patient when I'm this close after a rebuild! Oh the AGONY! Going to put it in now....


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 Post subject: Re: Starter gremlins after rebuild.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:02 am
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Issue is slightly worse.

New starter bendix sticks easier, seems to plunge about the half way point on the bendix gear. Same chirping. Attempting to separate and remarry engine to transmission. This bites, but I am hunting wabbits at this point. I suspect that the engine wasn't milled correctly, but the dealership swears up and down it is beyond reproach.


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 Post subject: Re: Starter gremlins after rebuild.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 5:02 am
Posts: 5
Ok, I'll admit it, this whole problem was caused by hooking the ground wire to the starter. I took the engine out and mounted the starter to the bell housing to diagnose the problem. The insulation on the wires started to smoke. So, just to be sure, I opened up the wire loom to look for damage and found that the black wire went straight to the battery. Well, that shouldn't be hooked up to the starter since the starter is grounded through its housing. Then, I noticed a stud I could connect the ground wire to close by on the engine block. I dumped the engine back in and everything works fine.

The moral of the story: At least take pictures of everything you are doing when rebuilding an engine.


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