Factory gear pattern, True Trac install. Opinion please

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:09 pm

Hello there, so I'm installing the True Trac for the first time, only an Aussie locker before this. With the factory setup, the pattern isn't what the manuals show. But, I've read that a lot of used sets can have similar patterns on the drive side, and the coast is oval and centered. If this is a poor pattern, then I guess that's what the factory set up since the shims are all the same? Backlash measures .005" and I put on new carrier bearings.

On a side note. I could rock the yoke back and forth a lot before I took it apart. Is that normal for a Jeep with 160k miles, and destined to blow up with all that slack?
I was going to do what most guys do and just slap in the TrueTrac and ride, but with all that slack, and a seal with over 160k miles on it I had to tear it down and make sure that it would last.

Coast

Drive

Thanks for taking a look

jsrmonster · **Posted:** Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:17 pm

Looks good. Another pinion cup shim would put it on the other side. 60/40 heel to toe contact is fine. 50/50 can be achieved later after new gears and bearings are broken in but not necessary.

Did you replace pinion bearing too?

Here is mine w/old ring and pinion but all new bearings/races.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:19 pm

That's great news if I can run it as is! Nope, I reused the pinions, figured that since the front is rarely used that they would last, and they looked great. I didnt want to chance all that slop and the seal though. Oh, and one tool I don't have yet is a puller.

airwerks · **Posted:** Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:49 pm

Funny, I'm doing the exact same thing today. I see you re-used your pinion bearings, did you put a new seal/crush sleeve in? I ask because I had a BEAR of a time to get my crush sleeve to crush (all new bearings) and when I finally got it to crush I over torqued it to 40 in/lbs rotational. (max spec is 30 in/lbs). What did you set yours at if you had it apart?

I don't really want to tear it apart and get another crush sleeve, but if the 33% over torque will be a problem I will do it. Should start my own thread too so I quit hijacking yours......

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Jan 13, 2014 1:14 pm

No worries, you're helping not hijacking :rockon:

I left the old crush sleeve in for setup, and now that I've verified that the factory setup is good enough without shimming, I've just got to pull it apart and put the new crush sleeve in. I'm putting in a new seal for sure. I'm not going to reuse any bearings in the rear, but the front gets used 90% less, so I don't see the point, and I don't have a puller yet. I need one for the rear though. Anyone know a good cheap puller that will work on our Jeeps? I'm shopping for one and trying to figure out what size one I need (length and bearing size).
I wouldn't risk over torqueing it for a $3 sleeve, but I'm a first timer at this. Have you rotated it several times in the same direction and then taken a reading in that same direction? Maybe it will loosen up a little. Otherwise I wouldn't risk it.
I fabbed up a spanner wrench that bolts to four of the holes on the yoke solidly with a really long handle to help with tightening and loosening that nut. I can brace it to my chest (dif is in vise) and pull on my biggest breaker bar just until I feel the nut budge, and then check the preload. It's a pain unbolting the spanner each time, but I don't want to damage the yoke.
Did you end up with well over 250 foot pounds on that crush sleeve? I'll be setting my old bearings right about 10 in #'s, which is the minimum, because the old ones had about zero.
Did your yoke have a lot of play in it, and did you happen to check the preload prior to dissassembly?

airwerks · **Posted:** Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:20 pm

You are talking about a puller, I'm assuming to get the bearings off? I just used a bearing knife and a 20 ton press. You can find the el-cheapo harbor freight used presses on craigslist for around $100. I'm glad I have mine, I use it more than I thought I would have. I almost look forward to doing driveline U-joints now.

I've rotated it a decent amount, hoping for the best but no difference. The quote Napa gave me on the crush collar was $45.89, almost half of what I paid for the entire timken install kit from rock auto.

Dealer has one in stock, and since I need to go pick up the ring gear bolts (they are TTY and the manual specifically says to not reuse) I'm thinking this is one of the few times when the dealer might actually be cheaper than the parts store.

I made a tool to bolt to the yoke as well, mine is 5' long and wedges against the ground. If yours is anything like mine, you wont' be able to do it by hand. Yes, I DEFINITELY ended up with way over 250 lb /ft. I would guess somewhere in the 400-500 range is what it took. I broke a Craftsman 1/2" breaker bar on it, my 1/2" impact @ 150psi wouldn't budge it. I had to borrow a 3/4" impact to get it to barely turn at full compressor psi. For this next time I borrowed a 3/4" drive 2' long ratchet from my dad. I'm hoping the dealer supplied crush sleeve crushes much easier than the Timken supplied one. Also, this was with the threads lubed with gear lube to minimize frictional losses.

My yoke had a decent amount of play, as the pinion nut had come loose after pulling a trailer across the state. The nut was finger tight, and the bearings were howling on decel. Bearings sound ok once I got it apart, I think it was only howling because the nut had backed off and allowed some slop in there.

airwerks · **Posted:** Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:25 pm

PS, my Jeep came to me with a failed open thermostat also, and overheated once on a long hill. (no inline installed when it did that)

I put a inline in it later, and haven't had an overheating issue since I did (20k+ miles ago). I don't think the inline t stat necessarily caused yours to overheat, I'm wondering if the OEM (typically) stuck open t.stat maybe stuck closed on both of us once? Dunno.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:05 pm

yup, puller for the bearings. I got one of those orange harbor freight presses to. Too bad I couldn't find a used one, I paid over $200 delivered since there isn't a store nearby. Oh well, it paid for itself just doing all the front bushings. I had to fab up a few things, but I got all the bushings in and out with the help of that press. And, all my bearings pressed on, pinion pressed out, and some other good stuff. I know what you're saying, it's the best tool ever :rockon:

Do those bearing knives get the bearing off without damaging them so you can use them as setup bearings?

$46! That's criminal. I would rather wait the few days for rockauto.
Hmm, yeah, so I won't know until tonight how the new crush sleeve feels. But, there isn't much preload until it starts to crush? And then I guess it crushes all of the sudden and bam, too much preload? I was making marks on my old one so I would know when I budged it, but I was only trying to get enough on there to know that the pinion was tight enough for measuring pattern. So it jumped from 20 to 40 all of the sudden? I don't think they really need to get smashed, just tighten until you get the right preload? Well, I'll report back after tonight when I know what I'm talking about :5SHOTS:

I think I got the ring gear bolts from summit, or partsgeek, but whichever one it was, the description was so bad I didn't think they were the right ones until I got them. I was sure they would snap when I put 80 foot pounds on them, but they held.

It took everything I had with my 3' breaker bar to loosen that nut (lucky I didn't hurt myself), and I sheared a 1/2" extension in the process. Yeah, sounds like yours is even worse than mine though. I got scared after reading about a guy who snapped his pinion while torqueing it. I guess the used bearings give the benefit of not having to torque it so tight (10in #'s).

About the thermostat. I've only had this Jeep a couple months, and I've torn just about the entire front end out adding OME struts and springs, UCA's and bushings, electric fan and a fabbed shroud, but on the list next is the thermostat. The guy I got it from said he removed the stock stat, so I don't think that's my problem, but he did one of the inlines that houses an old style stat in an aluminum housing. I'm putting in one of those failsafe ones that has the secondary stroke, and going to try to get it as close to the housing as possible and see how that goes. I think the newer hayden fan clutch he put on it recently failed also, so I'm not wanting to chance my engine to old viscous fan technology that sucks mpg down as well. But maybe use it for towing in hot weather.

Thanks for all the input both of you, I love this gear setting up stuff

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:12 pm

Opps, I forgot that I won't be able to report back on the crush sleeve until I get that new seal :banghead:

That's what I get for living an hour from any parts stores

Mountainman · **Posted:** Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:28 pm

Hey airwerks, would you mind telling me what bearing knife make and model you got?

airwerks · **Posted:** Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:27 pm

I've had good luck removing bearings with the knife..... no damage that I can see / feel when rotating them.

With the new crush sleeve in, the slack wasn't even taken out of the bearings with the impact stalled on the pinion nut. I'll snug it up with the impact this time and use the 2' ratchet I borrowed to dial it in closer.

The difference between my crushed old sleeve and the new one was a little over .070". Not much.

Neither of my bearing knives have markings on them, one came with the press and the other I don't remember where I got it from.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:19 pm

ok, thanks. I got my new seal and will be trying the crush sleeve tonight. Hopefully I have better luck than you. I'd like to hear how it goes on your second try. :rockon:

airwerks · **Posted:** Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:58 am

Second try went fine. The Mopar crush collar seemed to crush easier than the Timken one. I don't know if you have the correct tool for setting the carrier backlash / preload but I can get you a pic of the one I made with a nut, 3' length of pipe and some fittings to be able to torque them to the FSM specs.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:18 am

nice!

I worked so late last night I didn't get anything done but install the seal, which would have been really tough without a press!
Thanks for the offer on the tools, but I'm all good. I made a couple tools myself, and bought the rest.
Well, is that tool you're talking about for prying the carrier from side to side? Mine isnt quite as tight as I'd like, but it does require a little bit of prying to pop out, but so was the stock setup, and if it survived with all the slack there was in the pinion, I'm not too worried.
I think I have the Timkin sleeve so I'll report back if I had any luck with my 3' breaker bar. It's only 1/2" so hopefully it manages :grim:

airwerks · **Posted:** Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:11 pm

The tool I'm talking about goes in the axle tubes to thread the adjusting collars in to set the backlash. It's quite a drawn out process (from memory):

-remove slack from carrier bearings, leaving approx .010" backlash
-rotate pinion rapidly 1/2 turn back and forth 5-10 times
-back off pass side adjuster, tighten drivers side adjuster until .003-.004" backlash, with threaded collars torqued to 10 lbs. EVERY time adjusters moved repeat step 2
-torque carrier caps to 75 lb/ft
-torque pass adjuster to 75 lbs, keep rotating the pinion and torque ing this adjuster until it doesn't move any more at the 75lbs measurement
-check backlash, should be .006-.008 now
-torque drivers side threaded adjuster until 75 lbs, if it was far off repeat process

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:27 pm

So that's for the rear dif only? Or have I missed something. I'm putting the truetrac in the front right now since I had the whole front end pulled out, then rear when I have the cash

airwerks · **Posted:** Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:31 pm

Sorry, yes, rear diff. Would have caught you were doing the front had I read it better.

Mountainman · **Posted:** Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:41 pm

no worries. darn, and I thought I had everything I needed for the rear. I ordered all the stuff when I got the front dif parts, but I didn't read about those adjusting collars. Thanks for making me aware. I would definately like to see some pics of that tool. Maybe I can use that 1/2" extension I sheard off on the pinion nut for a new tool to reach in there :frankie:

Mountainman · **Posted:** Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:43 am

The adventure continues. The nut they sold me is slightly smaller than the OEM nut, and since I'm on the road without all of my tools. I managed to leave my 1 1/8 at home. So, I grabbed one from work, and won't be able to try it out until late this evening. But, what I'm wondering, is this 1 1/8" 12 point craftsman socket going to be able to handle 400+ foot pounds? I grabbed two just incase I pop one, and the other happens to be stronger...

streetglideok · **Posted:** Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:13 pm

Dunno about a 1/2" drive craftsman socket, but in a 3/4" drive with a reducer to 1/2", oh yeah 400ft/lbs and then some.

Factory gear pattern, True Trac install. Opinion please

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