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| Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85160 |
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| Author: | prionic1 [ Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
I've done a bit of reading and also some searching on here and the net and the question seems to go unanswered... Is there a better solution for the stock rack and pinion on a KJ? I'm running a '07 4wd 3.7 with a Frankenlift 2 and my rack and pinion just busted for the 2nd time this last week. The first one was when I was running it off road fairly often (at least compared to now) and the bracket on the passenger side that looks to be folded/shaped sheet metal welded to the main housing of the rack and pinion broke in half near the welds leaving the mount attached to the cradle and the passenger side of the rack and pinion flailing about unattached. This second time, it's been 2/3 years, VERY minimal off road (maybe just forest service roads) it's the exact same thing, broken in the exact same place, in the exact same manner. The bracket broke in half where it's welded to the the rack and pinion housing leaving the mount attached to the cradle and the steering rack floating on the passenger side. Is there a BETTER rack and pinion that has stronger mounting brackets that won't shear off? Aside from some custom cradle design work, the only solution I see is to just put another replacement in. Seeing as how many of us have a frankenlift on a KJ, isn't this something that we are all running into? Is it because I don't have enough weight on the front with a stock bumper and it's causing the front end to be just THAT MUCH MORE of an aggressive angle on the R&P tie rods causing undue stress on that bracket? There's gotta be someone making a super rack that has that housing machined out of a solid piece of steel or something I'd imagine... Thanks for your time in advance. |
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| Author: | jeepingpatton [ Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
What I did was weld the mount all up instead of having it tacked in place. So far its been good, and trust me, I probably running tires too big for that rack anyway. I also dont slow down at rail road tracks. So far thats the only solution I have found that lasted longer than 6 months |
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| Author: | prionic1 [ Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
Yeah my thought was to either, as you mentioned, weld the mount all around or to just install a new one and take the old one and grind/smooth out all of the old mount and machine a new one out of a block of steel and weld that on there... any other ideas floating about? edit: Has anyone seen a mod where the Rack and Pinion has been lowered to reduce the angle from the R&P to the steering knuckles? |
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| Author: | jeepingpatton [ Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
Be careful welding to the tube itself. But theres no way to lower the rack unless you do a cradle drop and thats ALOT of work. |
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| Author: | prionic1 [ Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
jeepingpatton wrote: Be careful welding to the tube itself. Yeah I had thought about that... I do have access to MIG welding equipment that would be better for welding to thinner tubing similar to how some bicycle frames are welded. There are probably some other options I haven't thought of yet. How do you guys think about designing a cradle specifically for this purpose. Custom cradle that drops the R&P but leaves everything else in the right spot? |
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| Author: | jeepingpatton [ Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
I TIG welded mine. And when you drop the cradle you have to drop EVERYTHING including the upper arms and the tranny mount, not a easy or cheap feat. The longer front cradle bolts alone are $28 each. |
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| Author: | prionic1 [ Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
jeepingpatton wrote: I TIG welded mine. Where did you weld it? I haven't looked yet, but I'm assuming the main tube housing of the R&P is probably pretty thin gauge metal. Also of note... the failure point, in both cases for me, is where the sheet metal that wraps around the R&P housing is welded in two spots on either side of the mount to the engine cradle that has the bushing in it. 
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| Author: | prionic1 [ Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
Also... what's a good replacement? Are all replacement rack and pinions equal or are some more equal than others? These are the ones I've found thus far aside from getting one from a dealership: JC Whitney: http://www.jcwhitney.com/rack-and-pinion/jeep-liberty/c11317d1195j1s21.jcwx Oreilly: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MPPB/1020219/02873.oap?year=2007&make=Jeep&model=Liberty&vi=1433761&ck=Search_02873_1433761_3698&pt=02873&ppt=C0031 Steering Super Store: http://west.steeringgearsuperstore.com/ShopByVehicle.epc?q=2007-JEEP-Liberty-V6--226ci--3.7l--F/i--Vin--K-&yearid=2007%40%402007&makeid=38%40%40JEEP%40%40T&modelid=15358%40%40LIBERTY&engineid=34556@@V6-226ci%203.7L%20F%2FI%20Vin%20K@@34556&subcatid=142@@Rack%20%26%20Pinion%2C%20Gear%20Bx%2C%20Pwr%20Cyl&mode=PA |
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| Author: | jeepingpatton [ Sat Aug 27, 2016 9:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
All of the racks are pretty much the same when it comes to that mount. But literally, i welded every place I could, both sides of the mount, top and bottom, both of mine busted right at that exact point that yours did. I didn't do the mount to the main tube. If the mount comes off you can actually wrap a ratchet strap around the cradle and the rack itself to keep it somewhat still. I had to drive almost 400 miles like that. |
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| Author: | prionic1 [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
jeepingpatton wrote: If the mount comes off you can actually wrap a ratchet strap around the cradle and the rack itself to keep it somewhat still. I had to drive almost 400 miles like that. That's good to know and a good idea. I was wondering how I was going to maneuver the jeep around to position it better to get worked on. I actually have an idea and am going to purchase two remanned R&Ps. One is going straight in the jeep, the other, I'm going to mill out some support plates and weld them in what looks like a critical support area on the mount that is missing. Not missing on a non lifted liberty, but once the angles on the tie rods changes when lifted, the stress on that mount changes direction... I'm going to see if my idea will compensate for that. |
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| Author: | prionic1 [ Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
 Rack and Pinion Replaced... definitely worth doing myself compared to the cost of the last one that broke... also while doing, I decided to get new upper ball joints and new tie rod ends. Just got aligned this morning and seems to be running well. Rack and Pinion Achievement Unlocked! Now I have an idea of how to POSSIBLY prevent this from happening again... I'm going to buy a another reman'ed rack and got to work trying to strengthen up the passenger side mount. I think it will work, but reality is a different matter. |
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| Author: | tjkj2002 [ Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
prionic1 wrote: :BANANA: Rack and Pinion Replaced... definitely worth doing myself compared to the cost of the last one that broke... also while doing, I decided to get new upper ball joints and new tie rod ends. Just got aligned this morning and seems to be running well. Rack and Pinion Achievement Unlocked! Now I have an idea of how to POSSIBLY prevent this from happening again... I'm going to buy a another reman'ed rack and got to work trying to strengthen up the passenger side mount. I think it will work, but reality is a different matter.  My solution to a weak rack & pinion steering gear. |
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| Author: | prionic1 [ Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
Nice TJ... BUuuuut... come one now... that's not fair... That solution is a LOT more than just your steering gear... I don't have the time or money right now to swap to a solid axle as much as I might think it might be a good idea... even though it's probably not, haha... at least for me. I'm trying to see if there is a simple relatively cost sensitive solution that anyone with some welding skills could do for the regular IFS lift... since that's where I'm at and probably will stay for the foreseeable future. |
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| Author: | Boss [ Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
prionic1 wrote: jeepingpatton wrote: I TIG welded mine. Where did you weld it? I haven't looked yet, but I'm assuming the main tube housing of the R&P is probably pretty thin gauge metal. Also of note... the failure point, in both cases for me, is where the sheet metal that wraps around the R&P housing is welded in two spots on either side of the mount to the engine cradle that has the bushing in it. I am losing faith in the Micky Mouse engineering done on our KJs. I've had so many things on the front end break I feel like I'm not enjoying driving my beautiful Jeep CRD anymore, just waiting for the next part to break. And now the rack and pinion unit breaks because it wasn't designed properly, arg. Mine is an Old Man Emu 1.5" lift, with R55s which I bought by accident, I meant to go with standard or R45s so this isn't totally Jeeps' fault, but seriously? The R & P is held on with a crappy little bracket like this? I've got to keep reading so I can decide if I want to do this myself. I've got a chain wrapped around the little piece of .. well it works, but it's killing my tire. I'd sure feel better if I could get at least one set of tires to make it a 1/4 of the way though the expected lifetime. |
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| Author: | sparky123321 [ Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
Haven't run into this yet, but it looks like the weak link is the mount that bolts into the body. There's very little "meat" on that stress point. I'm guessing no one has had the bracket break away from the main tube without the mounting side of the bracket breaking away first.. This then put additional up and down stress on the main tube weld on the unbroken portion of that bracket. I'd consider wrapping a piece of 1/8"-3/16" steel completely around the main tube and existing bracket then edge welding the two together. Pretty much doubling the thickness of the entire bracket. Once again, I haven't had this issue yet nor have I had a chance to take a close look at the components involved. Just my thoughts from the information I have at this time. |
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| Author: | Boss [ Thu Nov 24, 2016 6:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
sparky123321 wrote: Haven't run into this yet, but it looks like the weak link is the mount that bolts into the body. There's very little "meat" on that stress point. I'm guessing no one has had the bracket break away from the main tube without the mounting side of the bracket breaking away first.. This then put additional up and down stress on the main tube weld on the unbroken portion of that bracket. I'd consider wrapping a piece of 1/8"-3/16" steel completely around the main tube and existing bracket then edge welding the two together. Pretty much doubling the thickness of the entire bracket. Once again, I haven't had this issue yet nor have I had a chance to take a close look at the components involved. Just my thoughts from the information I have at this time. Thank you Sparky. I'm thinking along the same lines. I can't see up in there to form any real plan. I'll look at the FSM first and see what the R&R procedure is. I assume I'll need to lift the engine tranny up a bit to get at it. |
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| Author: | Boss [ Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Is there a better Rack and Pinion solution? |
I finally dove in and found to my delight that the issue was the grommet not the bracket. All better. Yippee
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