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Need a better amp.....and instruction...a little help?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=19062
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Author:  FL RENNY [ Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Need a better amp.....and instruction...a little help?

Right now I have a 12" Quantum Sub with a 340 watt Jensen Amp. And it sounds great, but I guess I have been bitten by the bug and I want more BOOM. THe guy at the local SoundWaves said that my 340w Jensen Amp is not true wattage (he said more like 150-200 watts?) , and that with the sub being max power at 800w and 400w RMS I could afford to put a larger amp on it. I recently created an E-Bay and Pay Pal account and am looking at some new amps. He said that the Rockford Fosgate Amps are really REALLY good and are pretty true to the watts they state they push. But I don't know what kind of amp I am looking for with just 1 12" subwoofer? 1 channel? 2 Channel? Mono? I HAVE NO IDEA! Can anyone steer me in the right direction? I have included a link to the subwoofer that I have in the Renny........thanks a lot.

http://www.quantumaudio.net/qseries_subs.htm

Author:  warholamo [ Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:06 pm ]
Post subject: 

Get an MTX class D Mono, Tons of them on eBay. Hardest hitting amps I've heard.

Author:  unixxx [ Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:43 pm ]
Post subject: 

The Jensen amp probably has a 340W peak power rating, but the lower RMS rating is the actual sustained power output.

Typically, you'll want to use a 1-channel mono amp for subs, but you can also tie two channels of a 2-channel stereo amp together.

Author:  JL Rockies [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 2:09 am ]
Post subject: 

The industry adopted a 14.4V input voltage standard for measuring power output. The problem is, a vehicle's electical system is 12.5V not 14.4V. So basically, most amplifers (yours and what was recommended) will not produce the rated power once installed into your Jeep. For every 2 Volts change in input voltage there is a 30% change in output power. Your amplifier is producing about 240 Watts RMS if that 360W is an RMS rating and if its a "Peak" rating (completely useless) its producing about 120 Watts RMS in your Jeep.

That being said, you have to consider your goals and how to get there.

Physics is a biznatch-goddess: it takes alot to get a little.
When listening to music it takes a minimum +/- 3dB change to dectect the difference. This means if the change was +/- 2.5 dB you would not notice the change.
If you want to increase output by +3dB you need to DOUBLE the power you currently have. To get to the next noticable increase (another 3dB) you need to double power again (From 120 Watts to 240 Watts to 480 Watts). Can your woofer handle that? Remember, the music is only 3dB (one click of the volume knob) louder but the voice coil is not getting twice as hot.
Physics is a biznatch-goddess: it takes alot to get a little.

Now that we are getting our minimal 3dB gain and the voice coil is getting hotter a new scenario creeps in: Thermal Compression. As the voice coil gets hotter, its impedance (frequency dependant resistance) increases. As impedance rises, it's harder for the amplifier to produce full power anymore and the output goes down. So you just bought a new amp and your only getting 1 or 2dB increase which you can't hear because the woofer is getting too hot.
Physics is a biznatch-goddess: it takes alot to get a little.

Now you try to get your money's worth in output. So you keep turning it up more and more. The impedance of the driver rises higher and higher and the voice coil gets hotter and hotter so the amp produces less and less. Eventually, the woofer is destroyed.
Physics is a biznatch-goddess: it takes alot to get a little.

There are two ways to increase output: increase power and/or displacement. Since there's no replacement for displacement, I recommend starting there. By doubling displacement you can gain 3dB as well. Add another 12" woofer and you'll get another 3dB without changing the amp. If you take advantage of the fact that you power handling has now doubled and add another 120 Watt amp, you now have +6dB of output potential. This would be a very good increase as well as being safe for the woofers. If you were to go from two 12" subwoofers in a sealed enclosure to two 12" subwoofers in a ported enclosure, you'll also get another 3dB. Do all of this and the potential is a 9dB boost.

A deciBel is 1/10th of a Bel. A Bel (+/- 10dB) is a measure of twice of half as loud. If you do all the above stuff, you will not have much cargo area left, but you are going to be nearly twice as loud.

I tried to find specs for Quantum subwoofers but there was nothing useful on their website.

If you are in the market for a new amp look to companies who are being honest about their numbers. As I wrote earlier, the 14.V numbers (CEA 2006 standard) are not honest at all for use in a 12.5 Volt system. There are few campanies who still rated power at 12.5V input, I can tell you that JL Audio is one of them.

As you go out into the world seeking to add displacement to get more output people (in forums and professionals) will tell you that you can destroy the woofer if you "underpower" them. This is BS and it's a myth that has been around for a long time. If this were true, you would have to play you system at full volume all the time so the woofers would not blow up. How many people do you know blew their woofers by turning the volume down (under powered)? :?:

Good luck in your quest for morre boom.

Author:  struggle07 [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 6:16 pm ]
Post subject: 

is your sub the single or dual voice coil version?

Author:  struggle07 [ Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:25 pm ]
Post subject: 

If your sub is single 4 ohm voice coil and you do NOT plan on getting another sub, then go with a two channel. If you have dual 4 ohm coils, or if you plan to add a second single 4 ohm coil sub, then go with a mono (one channel).

I have always liked MTX amps and had been running the same two amps for 4-5 years (now they are just sitting in my garage.) I also liked the Audiobahn product even though I have never actually owned one, but I have installed many. My brother runs a Kicker that is really nice too. As long as the rating is CEA-2006 compliant you know what you are getting.

One other thing to keep in mind is that adding a more powerful amp may require you to upgrade you amplifier wiring. Hope this helps.

Author:  JL Rockies [ Fri Mar 30, 2007 2:03 am ]
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For the reasons stated above, CEA 2006 compliant numbers only reflect what you'll get in a vehicle with a 14.4V electrical system. No registered car owner has such a system however. CEA 2006 (written by the companies who use it) is a way for companies who have always lied to legitimize their fantastic numbers. For example: to be compliant the CEA numbers must be on the packaging somewhere (as small as you like). You can however still put whatever numbers you want on the product itself. Case in point: Head units still say "4 x 50 Watts" on the face yet are still compliant. If you want to use the CEA 2006 numbers to determine what you'll actually get, simply take the number and multiply by .7 (14.4V numbers are inflated 30% for real world applications). Or you can take a honest company's numbers (who use 12.5V) and multiply that number by 1.3 to compare apples to apples.

For the reasons stated above, simply changing the brand of amplifier and/or voice coil set up will not get him to his goal.
The universe is ruled by the laws of physics not by car audio manufacturers.

Buyer beware.

Author:  struggle07 [ Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:00 am ]
Post subject: 

JL, go start your vehicle, put a volt meter across the battery, and see what is says....not 12.5V.

What I said about voice coils, has to do with matching the rated power of the amp with the correct rated impedance. It doesn't make much sense to run a single 4 ohm sub on a mono amp since most monos are rated for max power at 2 ohm. This is a perfect example of how a voice coil set up will help you reach your goal...by doubling output power (regardless of voltage.)

Author:  Pablo [ Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:24 am ]
Post subject: 

struggle07 wrote:
JL, go start your vehicle, put a volt meter across the battery, and see what is says....not 12.5V.

What I said about voice coils, has to do with matching the rated power of the amp with the correct rated impedance. It doesn't make much sense to run a single 4 ohm sub on a mono amp since most monos are rated for max power at 2 ohm. This is a perfect example of how a voice coil set up will help you reach your goal...by doubling output power (regardless of voltage.)


Interestingly enough, my voltmeter said it put out 14.4 and so does the ODBII computer.... :twisted:

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