Jeep Liberty, need some advice from you Gurus!

MedicPatriot · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:21 pm

I have been looking at this listing for a Liberty CRD 2005. 76k miles and he is selling it for 10k. Its a decent price when I can't find any of these, except one at carmax which was 15k and it had more miles...

After reading so many bad reviews about the EGR problems with this model I am a bit apprehensive, as well as for other issues as well. I'm scared of buying this thing and having to shell out more money for expensive repairs. I've repaired my old Cherokee numerous times but usually it was an easy (well...maybe not easy) fix that I did myself, or a hard fix that was maybe $300 at the shop.

The guy said in email:
"the car is in good condition and runs well. The EGR valve is clogged at the moment, but it does not affect drivability or anything. The EGR sent a low flow code (or something similar) to the computer/check engine light. Then I disconnected a sensor to close the EGR vavle. It's a workaround, but, yes, the check engine light is on because of the sensor being unplugged.
There's a couple of solutions for this issue that I can talk to you about."

This is the only thing that concerns me. At first I was worried that it would fail emissions test. I'm not so smart with cars so forgive me on not knowing the name, but I know they use a computer to check for codes on newer cars. This would obviously show up. However I am pretty sure that diesel cars are exempt from emissions test in my state of Maryland. I have to find out for sure, but if they are...then I could care less about the Check Engine Light being on.

I have read that bypassing the EGR is not that hard and it actually is not bad for the car, but will leave the Check Engine Light.

What do you guys think? I guess I'm looking for sure reassurance before dropping 10k on something I know little about.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:45 pm

Welcome to the forum which is the go to place to keep your CRD running. Suggest you look "up" on the main page for Sir Sam's NOOB guide and read thru that. Other than the usual used vehicle things to look for/consider 1) this will need a new timing belt at 100K miles cost ranges from $75 for a DIY of just the belt to ca. $1200-1500 for a shop to do a complete belt, pulleys, water pump job; 2) best figure on replacing the antifreeze (HOAT only - such as Zerex G-05), transmission fluid (ATF +4 only), and possibly the differential and transfer case fluids soon as it is very common for incorrect fluids to be used which can cause long term problems.

I would not buy it without running by some place like AutoZone that can pull the code for you and then check back with the forum on what the code really means not what you have been told it means. That said I suspect the seller is at least partially right and that he has disconnected the MAF sensor (on the outflow from the air filter box if I recall correctly) to kill the code. If that's the case, I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong, then again if I remember correctly a GDE EcoTune for $450 will do lots of wonderful things for you including shutting off this code.

MedicPatriot · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:14 pm

If I do get it checked out and it is the EGR valve, is it really that big of a deal?

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:42 pm

Hopefully someone who knows a bit more about the EGR valve than I will weigh in but I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Like I said I think the GDE tune takes care of the issue and does lots of other very good things. In addition there are a couple of posts on how to remove and unclog the EGR valve as opposed to the typical dealer solution of let's just throw a new part on there instead of fixing the existing part.

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:45 pm

Welcome to the board!

I would definitely get the vehicle scanned at an AutoZone or similar parts hut that can give you the number... They will also try to give you a description, but that is (in most cases) the wrong code definition. Just reply back here with the Pxxx number they give you, and we can tell you exactly what it means.

Now, about the EGR: If a CRD has one of these that isn't disabled by the SEGR device (He would know if he had one), pulling the MAF sensor plug (On the airbox hose like PapaIndigo said), or from a GDE tune... It WILL need to have the EGR replaced if you (for some silly reason) wanted to have the thing functioning.

And after you spend $800 or so to have it replaced... in about 15k miles, you get to do it again! Yay Chrysler designs!

The EGR device is an answer to a problem that doesn't really exist on our engines, doesn't fix anything broken, and WITHOUT FAIL, dies constantly by plugging up. It cannot be reliably "cleaned" because if it has plugged up, the electric motor that some genius designed it with, will have burnt out anyway. Its junk.

Buy the GDE Eco-Tune instead. $450, once, happiness for the rest of your CRD's driving life. As an added bonus, the GDE tune will increase the mileage of the CRD (if you can keep your foot out of the increased power), and turn off all of the nanny-systems that are checking for full EGR flow. If they check the computer in Maryland's emission tests, you will pass with flying colors. If they check the tailpipe and for some random reason your CRD didn't pass... Fill the tank with biodiesel and flog it on the highway, then go back - it will pass.

One more thing on emission tests - NO ROLLER TEST! This is a 4WD vehicle, if they try (and they will) to put it on a 2wd roller, it will drive the computer BONKERS. The answer is to sit in the passenger seat, and the instant the idiot lights start going off, reach over and turn the key off.

MedicPatriot · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:04 pm

Ah, I have heard so many bad reviews about this vehicle being unreliable that I'm TERRIFIED to make the purchase and have to shell out thousands in repairs.

Am I wrong? I hope so, because I really like this thing. If I'm wrong though, I may as well get something else. I don't have a backup car...

Hydraulic Jack · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:18 pm

I got mine new in 2005.....I like it as much now or more than I did when I got it , after getting the Hot tune and having the torque converter replaced with a suncoast....HJ

jeepdan · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:33 pm

MedicPatriot wrote:

Ah, I have heard so many bad reviews about this vehicle being unreliable that I'm TERRIFIED to make the purchase and have to shell out thousands in repairs.

Am I wrong? I hope so, because I really like this thing. If I'm wrong though, I may as well get something else. I don't have a backup car...

From my own personal experience, I have a had 80,000 miles of almost trouble free driving with CRD#1

, especially after adding the GDE tune to fix a failing EGR. Heck, I loved it enough that I bought a clone to it.
That said, repairs and upkeep can be expensive

and, I would not recommend a CRD as your only vehicle do to parts availability. If you are the type of consumer that needs a dealer for service, don't buy it.

MedicPatriot · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 11:38 pm

I'm just hoping that my car won't be falling apart and failing on me as often as these reviews make it seem! Really, the reviews make it seem like you will be driving the most unreliable POS in the world that is bound to stop running at any minute.

camo · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:58 am

SELF FULL FILLING PROPHECY. If you feel like that about the CRD just pass on it. It is an awesome little mule but the attitude wont help. And like a guy mention above, if you are a the person that depends on the dealer to get things done.......... then just stay away from it.

MedicPatriot · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:14 am

camo wrote:

SELF FULL FILLING PROPHECY. If you feel like that about the CRD just pass on it. It is an awesome little mule but the attitude wont help. And like a guy mention above, if you are a the person that depends on the dealer to get things done.......... then just stay away from it.

I really like it, I've just HEARD a lot of stuff that makes it SEEM unreliable. Just looking for info from you guys who actually have them to see the truth about it.

captaincrd · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:04 am

Get a good mechanic to look at it and if it checks out BUY IT!. I bought my 2006 in 2007 with about 20,000 miles, I did the SEGR to disable the EGR and the Elephant hose mod to stop the crud from entering the intake and I have had virtually no problems. I have 80,000 miles now and have replaced one hub, did the brakes, and replaced a $100 sensor. I have done maintenance and most of the the work myself. When I was first looking at buying a CRD I was totally paranoid that I was buying POS that would be nothing but problems but I have had the exact opposite experience.

DieselJeepLuvr · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:53 am

If your trying to compare the Cherokee with the Liberty CRD for reliability you will be greatly disappointed. I've owned several Cherokees and they are absolute tanks! Cheap to repair and darn near bullet proof for 300K miles or more. All they need is gas, oil and a serpentine belt every 60K. BUT the liberty gets almost twice the fuel economy, more power, has better visibility, more interior room just about everywhere and probably other stuff I can't remember right now.

Don't worry about the EGR valve not working. The current owner probably has the Mass Airflow Sensor unplugged to bypass it's senseless operation anyways.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:32 am

MedicPatriot wrote:

I'm just hoping that my car won't be falling apart and failing on me as often as these reviews make it seem! Really, the reviews make it seem like you will be driving the most unreliable POS in the world that is bound to stop running at any minute.

I hope you don't take this as an insult but to me a lightly used Prius is the car for you :SOMBRERO:

You definetly do not sound like a good candadate for a Liberty CRD diesel owner to me.
As mentioned a GDE Echo tune will cure the check engine light if it is a EGR related problem.
EGR problems are not just a Liberty CRD problem they are a problem for all EGR equiped diesel vehicles. VW TDi's since 1999.5 model year have had intake manifold clogging from EGR gasses. At about 60k miles and again at 120k the manifold on my past jetta was half clogged.

WolverineFW · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:29 pm

MedicPatriot wrote:

I'm just hoping that my car won't be falling apart and failing on me as often as these reviews make it seem! Really, the reviews make it seem like you will be driving the most unreliable POS in the world that is bound to stop running at any minute.

You may notice that a lot of the problems posted on this board are from people who recently joined and have 5 posts or less. They come here looking for help because they have a problem. They never came here before hand when they didn't have a problem. So how many more are out there that have had no issues and no reason to post. I'll bet a lot.

That being said it is a great vehicle if you are willing to put some time and effort into maintaining it and correcting Chrysler's design deficiencies or have some that can help you out with wrenching on it. If you are going to rely on dealer mechanics to work on it, you will have headaches.

truckbouy2 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:33 pm

These Jeeps are fine. They're built by Chrysler. I've never owned a Chrysler product that didn't have quirks and strange issues. Nature of the company. Joe might be right, if your nervous and questioning things now, you just might not have what it takes. Besides, things crap out, these boys here know more about these Jeeps than Chrysler does. They'll save you.

Tree Catcher · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:23 pm

Like you I was very apprehensive about purchasing the little tractor that could and will. I bought mine with 48k on the odo about a year ago, since then I have had almost 20k miles of fun with it. I still have to get the Ecotune from GDE but I have done everything else in the newbie post but the EHM. I regularly take it offroad on the local fireroads to get to my fishing spots and it's never let me down. If I had to do it all again, I would without hesitating. I do my own oil changes and the rest of the work only from the horror stories I have heard on the many boards that I lurk at. If you can do your own work then go for it, if you are paying a dealership to learn on your dime then its probably not the best for you. That being said the 4x4 capability of this tractor keeps amazing me.

Sean

Hoosier CRD · **Posted:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:07 am

First off, welcome to the forum. I hope that you find the people here helpful and informative; I know that I have.

Now, to your concern about your CRD-a couple of questions: 1) Do you typically work on your cars or does someone else? 2) If the answer to the above questions is "Yes", then are you willing to start working on your CRD after you buy it?

I, and many others on this forum DO work on their CRD to some degree or another. I was also nervous about this purchase. I even had a Jeep dealer Service Manager tell me to RUN !! as far and as fast as I could away from this Jeep (CRDs in general). I work in the diesel industry and would use my CRD everyday for the job (a main reason for buying it). I was nervous too because most everyone I talked to--in the diesel industry--knew little to nothing about these Jeeps. Talk about nervous, I epitomized it.

BUT, I began to read and read and read this forum. The day I test-drove it, I knew some about what to look for. I night I picked it up, I had a check list of things to do before I even cranked it to drive off for home. I am willing to continue to learn about these cars and to work on it at any point in time.

If you are willing to learn about your car and work on it to some degree or another, then you will enjoy your ownership. If, on the otherhand, you aren't mechanically inclined, and you don't have a curiosity to peruse a service manual or parts fiche for an answer, then perhaps you should pass on it.

The key here is being honest with yourself. Hope this helps.

FWIW,

Hoosier CRD

dirtmover · **Posted:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:47 am

MedicPatriot wrote:

After reading so many bad reviews about the EGR problems with this model I am a bit apprehensive, as well as for other issues as well. I'm scared of buying this thing and having to shell out more money for expensive repairs.

You and me both

. I'm stuck with mine but based on this statement alone maybe this isn't the vehicle for you.

Sounds like you're drawn to what looks like a cheap vehicle but, beware, these things have a low market value for a reason.

Don't get me wrong, it performs admirably and is unrivaled in its niche but if you don't require a comparatively small vehicle with exceptional towing ability for it's size, good fuel economy for it's weight, off road capable and you can take arse deep in water there are probably better options that are almost as much fun while being easier and cheaper to maintain with less $$$$ failure possibilities.

turbobike · **Posted:** Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:07 am

bought my '05 with 80,000 miles on it. Have replaced rear diff abs sensor, right front abs sensor, egr valve, intercooler hoses, and did the timing belt service, including water pump & thermostat.
These services could apply to any used car and are not considered excessive repairs.
So don't be scared off by a used Liberty CRD !

Jeep Liberty, need some advice from you Gurus!

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