Opinions on CRD as towing rig or replace

cgwarrant · **Posted:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:38 pm

Due to some changes, I have to now contemplate whether I want to keep my CRD, which I have only had since August, or upgrade to a diesel pickup. Reason is that I have a 22 ft travel trailer that we will be using this summer and my tow vehicle is gone. Question is, should I upgrade the CRD with TC and tune and try it pulling the 4200 lb dryweight camper this summer, or should I sell it/trade for the pickup? Is the CRD capable of relatively trouble free towing of a rig that close to the max capacity (plus people and gear) or should I save myself the white-knuckling and just go bigger? I still need the mileage for work but a diesel p/u only gets about 4 or 5 less mpg (specifically a second gen dodge). I have a chance at a good used p/u at a heck of a decent price and don't know if I should pull that trigger or give the Libby a shot. Heard it would tow, but worried about freeway sway and stopping. Have two young boys and don't want them in harms way. Thanks!

captaincrd · **Posted:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:29 pm

The CRD won't ever tow as well as the p/u. I have a 5000 lb boat (21' Four Winns) that I have been pulling with my CRD for 4 years with no problems. I usually have the boat loaded with gear and fuel and jeep full of people. I only tow it for 15-20 hours per summer, back and forth to the local lakes and ocean. My CRD is stock and I have never replace the torque converter. I usually keep the O/D off unless I am on the flat or a downhill grade. It pulls my boat fine stock for the most part. I usually drive around 60mph without a problem. When I hit a steep hill the revs are up and the speed is slow. You may have more wind resistance with a camper trailer. I have replaced my brakes rotors at 75,000 miles, towing may have contributed to the warped rotors. My boat trailer has surge brakes.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:31 pm

My CRD tows great, but I planned my modifications to make it happen since I don't have the driveway space to park a pickup. For me it was cheaper than paying for the extra insurance and license plates for a pick up.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:04 pm

The exact same vehicle that is in your driveway is rated to tow 7700 lbs in Europe, and can EASILY do that travel trailer with the right equipment and loading.

Your problem won't be the weight, it will be wind resistance. How large is the TT? Height? Sloped front end? Width? The more it pokes past the edges of your CRD, the more wind resistance it will give you.

I use my CRD to pull 70kw generators around. These things weigh in at 6800 lbs fully fueled, and are just about the same size as the CRD. The last one that I pulled also had 500 feet of "feeder" cable with it, 5 coils of 1-inch-diameter copper cable wrapped in heavy rubber. That cable weighs about 60 lbs per 100 foot, so there is another 300 lbs or so of weight I was dragging, plus my CRD was full of film equipment at the time too.

I wouldn't expect 30mpg when pulling like that, but I got about 18mpg with that heavy hauling. You will be VERY hard pressed to find a pickup that will do the same job and get even that much mileage while doing it.

The biggest thing I have pulled, both physical size and weight was my own 20' enclosed car-hauler trailer. This is a 7.5x20 Haulmark trailer, weighs in at 2000 empty, is 7.5' wide, stands about 8' tall from the ground... And when loaded behind the axles as much as I possibly could, STILL was putting down 1000 lbs of tongue weight onto my CRD. I don't like how the axles were placed on the design of that trailer, and I only pulled it with the CRD for a short distance loaded. It weighed 7k full. But the CRD handled it exactly the same as when I had bought the thing and pulled it on the highway empty - The wind resistance wouldn't let me go faster than 65.

Sway? The only time I have had sway issues was towing another vehicle, my Jeep Grand Cherokee with a tow bar. Without having ANY tongue weight, when you hit the brakes, the trailer (Jeep) would try and "push" through the ball, and would make the back wheels lighter than they should have been, causing some potential loss of control. This has been solved completely by intentionally using a drop hitch. Now the tow bar points down toward the CRD, and when stopping, exerts massive downward tongue weight to stabilize instead of de-stabilize.

So that is how you want to get your TT loaded - Not excessively ball-heavy, but just a few hundred lbs on the ball. Don't go for that generic "10%" garbage, load it smart so that the TT's frame and the frame of your CRD remain parallel to the ground. If you can see sagging at the ball, move more gear to behind the axle to lighten the ball some. "Weight distributing hitch" contraptions are just designed to try and force the frames back to parallel, they don't address the underlying problem of improper loading. I don't use any special towing equipment, just stronger tires (Load Range C) and I might consider heavier rear springs the next time I change the shocks. Your loading is the most important and controllable thing you can do to decide how you want the tow to feel.

Ultimately, the best thing to try would be take the trailer out for a drive as-is, and see how you like the performance. You won't hurt anything on your CRD by spending a day dragging the trailer around, you are WELL within the actual capabilities of the engine and transmission. Just don't beat on it and the torque converter will be fine.

fastring · **Posted:** Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:13 am

I would try it and see.
- Towing 2500lb trailer with my CRD twice recently. I was impressed with flat towing performance and road presence (no sway, suspension feels good even though CRD also had 3 big people and tons of camping gear/stuff on roof rack in addition to the trailer). I was also impressed with how big of a hit the rig had on hills (san diego going to the desert). This rig really bogs down on the hills.

- MPG: first gen cummins or not, its not going to get the mpg unloaded that the CRD is. This also assumes a 4x4 pickup. Towing, with the hills, the MPGs might be comparable. I go back and forth between taking my 2002 PowerStroke vs the CRD for towing the ATVs to the desert. The F350 goes as fast as I want to on the hills and seems to get the same MPG (~16) regardless. The liberty drops to 18 or maybe 20 mpg towing. Its almost a wash, for towing, but not for daily driving.

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:11 am

Are you towing on those hills in OD or do you have the button pushed? The ECO tune is a great investment, but if you don't have the full-torque version (I don't) then you might be missing out, especially with the collection of Man-sized hills you have out West. Losing some speed on a grade is perfectly normal when you are pulling under a load, just look at the speed loss that big 18 wheelers have. They are cranking out 1500 lb-ft of torque and 500 hp, and they can't pull a heavy grade at speed either. Its physics.

2mopar_diesels · **Posted:** Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:44 am

I've towed my Wrangler on a 16' car hauler (5500-6000lb.) several times even without trailer brakes, it never felt unsafe. I will be getting a brake controller and wiring the CRD for a 7pin to run the brakes though, if nothing more than sense of peace. If I were you, I'd upgrade the converter.....get bith the full tq eco or Hot tune from GDE and their tow tune on the TCM, then upgrade to stiffer OME springs all around (medium fronts HD rear) and run nothing taller than a 30" tire. After that, just make sure you have the Libby set to run trailer brakes with a good brake controller and you'll be all set.

DynoPax · **Posted:** Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:51 am

X2 on 2mopar_diesels recommendations, only makes sense IMO... I have the Hot and TCM tune, Euro-spec TC, installed Mopar trailer hitch wiring plus the Tekonshea 7-pins trailer brake system. I have no fear pulling anything within reasonable limits (weight, size, lenght), making best use of what available good judgement I possess :juggle:

ibedonc · **Joined:** Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:40 pm **Posts:** 236

my 05 has the GDE turbo and Suncoast TC it pulls a 21' 4k lb loaded amerlite RV @ 70 mph in the texas hill country no problems and I have pulled 7k with it on a car hauler trailer , you should at least upgrade the TC and get a GDE tune , you will be much happier

I also have a Ford 7.3l truck and my first choice when I wait to tow something is my liberty

since now the liberty only has 100 ftlb less torgue then my 7.3l ! , it is amazing what our little jeep can do

with the GDE turbo I get 400ftlb

naturist · **Posted:** Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:32 pm

I have a 21 foot TT that is a full 8 feet by 8 feet frontal surface, although at 3600 lbs dry weight it is lighter than your rig. Two years ago I dragged that TT from Virginia to Seattle, then to LA, and back. My 2005 CRD was box stock at the time, and did fine, although I did encounter some overheating issues heading west that were fixed by replacing the fan clutch. Last August/September I had applied the GDE ecotune, and took the trailer to Vegas, then a loop around the Grand Canyon, before heading home.

I cannot speak to the weight issue, although THAT has been no problem for me. My trailer fully loaded weighs in at just about 5,000 lbs; you'll be heavier. The frontal surface has been the issue for me. I fought a 50 mph headwind across Oklahoma last trip. I was able to keep it in the 55-60 mph range, into that wind, but it wasn't fun and it killed the mileage. Dragging my rig, I normally get around 14-15 mpg, but that wind yielded around 9, worst I've ever seen.

I would highly recommend replacing the fan clutch with the Hayden unit (search here for details). The stock clutch is junk, it kicks in too late, wears out quickly, and is expensive to boot. I would also suggest towing in AWD (full-time 4WD) for stability. The CRD is a shorter wheelbase than a pickup. My rig does have a WD hitch, but that hitch does not have any sort of sway control. I've not needed it towing AWD, but it has felt slightly less directionally stable in 2WD.

Wobbly · **Posted:** Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:17 pm

Our CRD tows a 20' travel trailer weighing 5100 pounds quite well, but we have a Hensley Arrow hitch.
Here's a post describing how I verified that vehicle ratings were not exceeded:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=55845

white69mach1 · **Joined:** Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:15 pm **Posts:** 29

I towed a 6x12 enclosed trailer, loaded the trailer was close to 5,000 lbs from the Mississippi Gulfcoast to Homer Alaska round trip, almost 10,000 miles of driving. I dont know if you know much about the ALCAN Highway, but there are some killer grades and the CRD was able to do 50 up them. I would have liked some more power, but I never felt unsafe. The brakes didnt like going to down the grades, but that's easy to fix, I just down shifted. We were able to average around 18mpg for the trip, the grades effected the mpg a good bit.

cgwarrant · **Posted:** Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:09 pm

Thanks to all for the info, especially the in-depth post from geordi...

Unless the guy with the Dodge pickup (yes, its a 4x4) comes through with a really good deal, I will probably stay with my Libby. Although, it will be with the upgraded TC, fan clutch, tune, springs and tires. I would probably loose at least that much in a trade anyway!

The TT is a Gray Wolf 22 BH. It's pretty tall- I would guess 9-10 ft, and a little wider than the Libby, so wind resistance would be a factor. I would definitely be employing a 7-pin connector and brakes, and was thinking about adding a sway bar to my weight distributing hitch for the passing semis. Most trips would be within 2 hrs, but if good on those then maybe longer. I have a pic of a guy pulling a 27 ft TT and it looks like a mini-semi, but he said it pulled great.

For the rest of my towing duties, the Libby would be fine. Occassionally a hot rod, my 1950 Ferguson 30T tractor, 19' boat, etc. All would be with trailer brakes. I love the vehicle but want to be safe and practical in my application. I guess all I can do is try and see, after the prescribed test tow, of course. Thanks again to all!

fastring · **Posted:** Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:09 am

I did tow with OD button disengaged but it seems that it cant find the right gear 25% of the time. A manual transmission or at least the ability to select "stay in" 5, 4, 3, 2 would be nice. I guess I was just surprised that I could feel the difference of no trailer vs trailer on those hills with that light of a trailer (2.5k). I'm not saying I wouldnt use it as a tow rig but as good as it was on the flat it was not impressive on the hills. The 4R100 is no genius for towing (coming from a 4l80 6.0 gas that was very good at holding a good towing gear) but it does better than the CRDs transmission.

I do have the stock TC (I'm guessing) and havent done the transmission tune or the transmission valve body kit or anything in the transmission. Good thread, I should look into some of the suggestions such as the fan clutch.

Opinions on CRD as towing rig or replace

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