Compass-going nowhere

pinevillekj · **Posted:** Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:56 am

I came across a compass at the mall last week. Being a jeep nerd, I got out and gave it a good walk around. A picture of the kj next to the compass is very telling. The walk around convinced me that the two units are different enough as to not rob sales from each other. I am afraid that the market for a small hatchback that gets crappy MPG might not be that strong. What vehicles mark the vehicles competition? My initial thought would be Matrix/vibe, perhaps the CRV, RAV4??

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:40 pm

The next off-road Liberty is probably going to be... the Wrangler Unlimited (4 door). I imagine the Libby being phased out by 2008-9. Unlimited = basically Libby front, Commander back, and soft-top and half-door options. My dealer (who I call once and a while to annoy about wanting a diesel Wrangler) told me that the Unlimited on his lot is almost longer than the Commander!

So, think about it from DC's production standpoint:
-They only build TWO off-road chassis and get 4 off-road Jeeps: The Wrangler (and the stretched Unlimited), and the Grand Cherokee (shared by the Commander)
-they build/borrow another (dodge) chassis and make two on-road cars that they CALL Jeeps: Compass and Patriot

3 chassis, 6 vehicles. The Compass and Patriot (cars) are a low-pricepoint risk that they are willing to take because they are already building the Dodge version of these things.

Sad, but true, I smell the writing on the wall for the Libby. But I'd take a Diesel Unlimited in a heartbeat....Soft-top with a fold down front window is the ULTIMATE beach-Jeep!!!!

NU ARTY BOY · **Posted:** Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:07 pm

Pablo wrote:

...This is the story with the new Caliber/Compass, and potentially the new Liberty/Nitro. They are the same thing with different panels and headlights and that lessens the desirablity in the premier product line. Premier being, in this case, Jeep. So soccer mommies are just going to buy the Nitro and skip the Liberty all-together. Anyone here want a Lincoln Zephyr (based on the Focus)? Or how about those new 4.0 Jaguars that look like Ford Taurus'es? Or how about the new Saab coupe that looks just like the Chevy Imapla it was based on? Or how about the LandRover FreeStyle that looks like the CR-V-- complete with crappy half-shaft driven rear wheels (In a LandRover, no less!)? My guess is not too many people want any of these....

Actually the Zephyr is based on the new Fusion. The Nitro doesn't have a low-range transfer case and has an air-ride suspension. The Nitro is also bigger than the KJ.

As far as the Compass, from what I understand Jeep was planning to enter it in limited SCCA rally events here in the states (don't know if that is still true) but the problem is that WRC rules limit the engine displacement to two liters or less. DC does not have an engine that can compete against Subaru, Mitsubishi, Ford (Europe), or Peugeot. The motor in the SRT Neons and Calibers are 2.4L and therefore too big. I think that Jeep fans would accept the Compass IF it was marketed this way and competed in WRC but it does not look like its gonna happen anymore. Hell I'd probably buy one if I could destroy all the WRX STi and Evos I see on the road.

As you can see I HATE import cars...

Marlon_JBT · **Posted:** Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:48 pm

That's not hard to do. The Caliber has all 3 world engines inside... all they have to do is build a 2.0L Compass like they build a 2.0L Caliber.

NU ARTY BOY · **Posted:** Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:30 pm

The 2.0L only puts out like 150 horse. DC has made their 2.4L as their performance 4-cylinder engine. Its not likely that they will be putting turbos on the 2.0L in the near future....but what do I know?

Dutchy · **Posted:** Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:49 am

http://www.topgear.com/content/news/sto ... /images/1/

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Isn't that the new 08 Liberty? :-)

Even if it is, think of the versatility and long life this new design offers. You drive it for 10 years until the chassis fallls apart. Then you remove the body and set it on blocks, add a wood stove and a smokestack and sell bbq for another 10 years. After that, you let sit in ruin for 3 or 4 years just to aggrevate your new neighbors, by adding a chicken or two, preferrably a large rooster that will wake everyone up at 5:00am. When even you can't stand it anymore, you then sell to a railroad caboose restoration company, who after searching far and wide for blueprints for 1800 era caboose cabins, have come up dry and is absolutely thrilled to have your Commander like caboose for their new restoration project - they are exceptionally delighted with the smokestack, now tar stained from years of wood burning and authentic looking.

And you thought you were just buying a 4X4...

BiodieselJeep.com · **Posted:** Tue Sep 26, 2006 1:22 pm

Heh Heh.

That link got me looking at that site, saw this:
http://www.topgear.com/content/news/stories/1137/
"One concession Jeep has made to Europe is a new diesel engine for the Wrangler. The 2.8-litre turbodiesel unit is said to be ideally suited for off-road work, but those who like hanging around petrol stations can still opt for the 3.8-litre petrol version. "

*SIGH* I would f-ing LOVE a 2.8TDI Wrangler.

Dutchy · **Posted:** Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:35 pm

Have you read what the say about the Compass,

-----------------------------------------
Jeep Compass points the way

Usually we have to wait a while before manufacturers or aftermarket companies start to offer dodgy bodykits for their cars, but not Jeep.

The US firm has dived straight in with its Compass Rallye, which looks like a contender for our Carbage pages before it's even gone on sale in the UK

http://www.topgear.com/content/news/sto ... /images/1/

------------------------------------------

Top Gear is the leading Car program in UK and Europe, these guys do not have any sponsors and therefore can realy say the truth about cars.

If they think a new model is crap they will tell you so.

Check them out at www.topgear.com

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

Usually, the english are masters of understatement, so "carbage" says it all

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

Not to beat the poor Compass to death, but Business Week (who knew they did car reviews???) really slammed the car in their review. They gave it a 1/2 star (yes, one half) out of five. Good Job Chrysler!

richardkf · **Joined:** Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:15 pm **Posts:** 167

My step dad and I always used to joke back and forth about the Pontiac Aztek ... does it look more like a garbage dumpster or a garbage truck???? The compass definetly most closely resembles a garbage truck. Throw a diesel in the Compass and you have a light duty version of a garbage truck.

ccattie · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:27 am

Actually, the Vibe has been quite successful. I cannot comment on the Matrix's figures though. The Vibe isn't nearly as angular or boy racer styled as the Matrix.
-c

vtdog wrote:

I saw a Jeep Compass on the road today for the first time. The sharp angular styling did not work for the toyota matrix, pontiac vibe (same car), or pontiac/buick aztec-rendezvous. Why does DCX think a vehicle with copycat styling of those vehicles will work for them?

Just my humble opinion, but if I were the exec in charge of Compass I would not expect much of a xmas bonus this year.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 12:18 pm

Well, I just don't think DC spent enuff time thinking out the first "Jeep Car". I don't think they had a clear "Mission Statement" in mind. They should have concentrated of a vehicle that helps with C.A.F.E. numbers first and then an upgraded model for performance. Instead they threw is a boring 2.4L with run of the mill horsepower and lackluster mpg figures. They really needed to think of two packages like Honda ect...an HFE ( HIGH FUEL EFFICIENT-Hondas HF ) model and a SRT ( Sports Rally Type-Hondas SI ) model.
Then they needed to get away from the humpback whale type car/van/suv and build a real "car". Make it something that current Jeep Owners would actually buy as a second vehicle for either mpg reasons or street performance reasons. Make a 4 door(HFE) and a 2 door version (SRT).

Now design something that is "pleasing" to the eye, sounds like music to the ears and delivers that "seat of the pants" feeling. If they were going to fashion it after a current Jeep Facia, I think the new Grand Cherokee front end would have been a better model for a "car" front end to work with...Dual Headlights of different diameters with built in signal ect. Make it look like a car instead of trying to make it look "Jeeplike"...it IS a car. The current Compass is neither "Cute" or "Scary" like the commercials for the Dodge Calibur try to imply. They both look more like a Platypus...with a bird beak, beaver tail, webbed feat, and a pouch for the eggs to hatch in. They should have picked a different creature of nature to mimic...like a Black Tipped Shark or a Fast Flying Hawk. Some light (and I mean very light), fast ( something that makes you remeber to fasten your seatbelt ) and deadly ( no that does not mean remove the airbags ).

I think they misssed a chance to attract the current Jeep owners and make them possible proud owners of a Jeep Car. The only time I want my "Head to Bobble" is when I am offroad. For the CRD Crowd...a Rally Turbo Diesel Version with AWD.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:16 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

Well, I just don't think DC spent enuff time thinking out the first "Jeep Car". I don't think they had a clear "Mission Statement" in mind. They should have concentrated of a vehicle that helps with C.A.F.E. numbers first and then an upgraded model for performance. Instead they threw is a boring 2.4L with run of the mill horsepower and lackluster mpg figures. They really needed to think of two packages like Honda ect...an HFE ( HIGH FUEL EFFICIENT-Hondas HF ) model and a SRT ( Sports Rally Type-Hondas SI ) model.
Then they needed to get away from the humpback whale type car/van/suv and build a real "car". Make it something that current Jeep Owners would actually buy as a second vehicle for either mpg reasons or street performance reasons. Make a 4 door(HFE) and a 2 door version (SRT).

Now design something that is "pleasing" to the eye, sounds like music to the ears and delivers that "seat of the pants" feeling. If they were going to fashion it after a current Jeep Facia, I think the new Grand Cherokee front end would have been a better model for a "car" front end to work with...Dual Headlights of different diameters with built in signal ect. Make it look like a car instead of trying to make it look "Jeeplike"...it IS a car. The current Compass is neither "Cute" or "Scary" like the commercials for the Dodge Calibur try to imply. They both look more like a Platypus...with a bird beak, beaver tail, webbed feat, and a pouch for the eggs to hatch in. They should have picked a different creature of nature to mimic...like a Black Tipped Shark or a Fast Flying Hawk. Some light (and I mean very light), fast ( something that makes you remeber to fasten your seatbelt ) and deadly ( no that does not mean remove the airbags ).

I think they misssed a chance to attract the current Jeep owners and make them possible proud owners of a Jeep Car. The only time I want my "Head to Bobble" is when I am offroad. For the CRD Crowd...a Rally Turbo Diesel Version with AWD.

I agree! The transition to car for Jeep should have been a two fold step. The first step I would have liked to have seen a "Subaru Like" wagon to give Subaru head to head competition. Then second the car transition should have been a hybrid powerplant, but with driver controlled adjustable height clearance to keep the Jeep edge to it.

huxrules · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:40 pm

Well if you guys want a jeep like car- thats kinda like a subaru but more jeep like then I suggest we go back to the AMC Ealge

http://washington.uwc.edu/depts/compsci ... 6/pa6.html

I remember really thinking these cars were sweet- as a 9 yr old.

As for the compass/patriot- it's not a jeep. People used to rag on the libby for diluting the jeep blood- but these two cars make the libby look like an old offroad hand.

no-blue-screen · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:03 pm

They should have put more focus on Diesel engines. My thing is this....some people want gobs of power and some people could care less about power and want more fuel economy. I think all auto makers should keep this in mind and bring more diesel offerings that have two options. You could have an economical I-4 Turbo Diesel that has less hp and torque...say something similar to 100-115 HP and 170-195 ft lbs of torque. This would be an economy engine and should yield very good fuel economy numbers while still affording acceptable performance. Then you could have something on the line of what we have in our CRD which I feel is a fair blend of power an economy. Not specifically for the jeep per se, but across the whole DC line.

One thing that frustrastes me about all these new sub-compact cars is that their fuel economy is not all that great...or at least nowhere near where it could be. For example, VW had the Lupo over in the UK and they put a 1.2L I-3 TDI engine in it. A 3cylinder and this was a very small sub-compact or city car. This car got 78 US mpg....I know there are a lot of people out there that would buy something like that for a daily driver. Now think also about the possibilities if you mated that little 3 cylinder turbo diesel to a hybrid powertrain....we are easily talking over 100mpg. I just don't feel car companies in the US are doing enough to give us consumers options to help reduce our dependance on foreign oil.

Rant over.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:03 pm

huxrules wrote:

Well if you guys want a jeep like car- thats kinda like a subaru but more jeep like then I suggest we go back to the AMC Ealge

http://washington.uwc.edu/depts/compsci ... 6/pa6.html

I remember really thinking these cars were sweet- as a 9 yr old.

As for the compass/patriot- it's not a jeep. People used to rag on the libby for diluting the jeep blood- but these two cars make the libby look like an old offroad hand.

Well the problem is car makers are required to have certain C.A.F.E. numbers...average fleet mpg numbers to meet the standards. Until Diesels get approved EPA wise and acceptable to the general public, they almost have to introduce "cars" that get good mileage to bump up the overall numbers. I was just saying that it looked like they threw together something that go OK mileage and had some Jeep resemblance. If they wanted to base a "Jeep Car" on another model in the Damlier Chrysler family, they should have gone to the Mercedes side of design maybe. I have said before that Jeep should have revived the Willys name for the "car" side of the equation.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:05 pm

huxrules wrote:

Well if you guys want a jeep like car- thats kinda like a subaru but more jeep like then I suggest we go back to the AMC Ealge

http://washington.uwc.edu/depts/compsci ... 6/pa6.html

I remember really thinking these cars were sweet- as a 9 yr old.

As for the compass/patriot- it's not a jeep. People used to rag on the libby for diluting the jeep blood- but these two cars make the libby look like an old offroad hand.

Now that's what I'm talking about, should have gone retro with the AMC Eagle. Heck even the old AMC Gremlin looks better than the Compass

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:06 pm

They already did...The Compass is a Pacer with squared corners...even the headlights look the same.

They should have based it on the Javelin. :idea:

Compass-going nowhere

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