Fully agree. There's also the possibility of a malfunctioning Flow Control Valve (FCV) - the butterfly valve in the intake manifold - indicated by the same or similar DTC's and/or CEL as a malfunctioning EGR valve. The original FCV's had plastic gears that tended to strip out if the valve became crudded up with soot and oil, making it nonfunctional.

First make sure the mechanicals are in good working order, THEN look at whatever remedy suits you for the EGR, be it the ORM, SEGR, or a GDE tune.

Besides, if the EGR is malfunctioning mechanically, then how can the GDE tune make use of it as a pop-off valve for controlling boost as they've advertised?

FWIW, when my EGR failed, it was stuck open. And an item that went hand-in-hand with this was the eventual failure of one or more glow plugs thereafter - overworked trying to compensate for the stuck open EGR. As good as GDE's tune may be, I sincerely doubt that it would fix a burned out glow plug.

IMHO, claiming that software in the ECM can cure a failed mechanical part elsewhere in the engine is akin to a TV evangelist claiming he can cure cancer by laying on hands.

_________________
Mitchell Oates
'87 MB 300D Diamond Blue Metallic
'87 MB 300D - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Sport CRD Stone White
Provent CCV Filter/AT2525 Muffler
Stanadyne 30 u/Cat 2 u Fuel Filters
Fumoto Drain/Fleetguard LF3487 Oil filter
V6 Airbox/Amsoil EAA Air Filter
Suncoast TC/Shift Kit/Aux Cooler
Kennedy Lift Pump/Return Fuel Cooler

Having retired from computer field service I have seen many hardware problems fixed with a software solution
And that's what we're talking about here

_________________
Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)

Joe, I respectfully disagree. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about GDE being identified in an attempt to sell product with capabilities it doesn't have. When called on the deception, they generate a convenient fact, entirely unsubstantiated. That fact appears to support their earlier attempt to sell software specifically as an alternative means to repair an already malfunctioning egr device. As Retmil46 pointed out, it doesn't wash even then because it goes against their own advice, not to use their tune with an egr valve which won't flow exhaust gas. It also disables their turbo-blowoff feature, another fact they fail to mention.

If the egr valve is intermittently sticking, using the GDE tune in place of an egr repair is just as likely to result in a stuck open valve as leaving the vehicle unrepaired. Then the hapless user who buys a tune for that reason will get to shell out $550 for the tune, plus the $700 GDE quoted for the egr repair. How's that for the truth?

What GDE just did is called violation of truth in advertising, intentional or not.

I don't see other vendors who support this site and play by the rules, exhibiting this kind of behavior.

Several of us have also noticed GDE's willingness to violate forum rules for unregistered vendor advertisements, both here and elsewhere. A similar style of incident, where a GDE customer is repeatedly suggesting a GDE software tune as solution to a sticking egr valve just finished playing out on jeepforum. It culminated on September 18th with the moderator removing GDEs advertisement, citing the same unregistered vendor rule violation. Did GDE forget about the rules on that forum as well, months after they pulled the same move on LOST?

What was the end result? The same "customer" who has virally posted on jeepforum about GDE, responded to the GDE advertisement removal with an acknowledgment of the rules and, drum roll, another spam, unsolicited testimonial, for the GDE tune. Bump the spam to the top of the page. Mission accomplished.

One hour after LOST is back up, GDE is posting again, starting out with helpful tips, followed up by advertisement, again out of the vendor area of the forums, again in violation of LOST forum rules. The end result was the same sales pitch for their software to remedy a sticky egr valve, this time by GDE. What a coincidence. Do we see a sleezy trend emerging? I have to ask, what is the incentive for a few GDE customers to keep up this pattern of spam? (Joe, I'm not referring to you) Is quid pro quo involved?

In contrast, I've seen several reviews by longtime LOST members of the GDE tune, respected members, that were well written, very informative and certainly nothing like those I just described. Bugnout's comes to mind, but there were others as well who also provided valuable information, which was appreciated.

Then there are the other kind, the spammers, the "friendly bumps," when a spam message from or about GDE is about to age out and the constant bombardment of mindless posts about GDE tunes starts all over again. It happens on this and several other forums. You've seen them. They never stop, they keep offering the same scripted responses, with minor variations and very little real data.

Where have I seen this before? I remember! I worked in an Internet fraud division of a company for many years and these techniques are well tested by sleezy advertisers. They're all designed to do one thing - keep the product you're selling at the top of the web page by any means possible. That is the single distinguishing factor between genuine customer reviews and and spam. Apologize if caught, but keep on posting. Back off and build up slowly to the same infomercials. If banned, use another alias, then rinse and repeat.

For comparison, research any diesel forum for the frequency of customers posting about the same tune, over and over and over again, day after day, week after week. On average, it's not happening. The compare how many times a few of GDE's customers constantly post about theirs with mindless dribble. The only consistent reason for the post appears to be is the original spam is moving down the web page and out of sight.

I'm not liking the behavior I see emerging with GDE as a vendor. If it's a good product, and it appears to be, why not let the product speak for itself? Does it really need false advertising to sell? If their business is off, this isn't going to help. This wave of viral spam posting for GDE isn't helping their credibility either.

_________________
2005 LTD CRD RB1 NAV/Htd Leather seats/Amsoil EA filters
SunCoast Mega Trans & Billet TC/PML pan/Aux cooler
Fuel cooler/Lift Pump/10um Pri/Racor R490 2um Sec Fuel Filters
IronMan Lift/Shocks/Provent/Moog ball joints/ V6 Airbox/Fan/Hayden
Cobalt Boost/EGT/Oil/Trans/Volt gauges/Aeroturbine 2525
Yeti Hot Tune/Odessey 65/Samco's/Michelin Defenders

First issue. I had the fuel filter problem you speak of and I had no luck with the dealership repairing other than the fact the were willing to order the part (I went through Mopar parts america) and I replaced it myself as I live in So Cal and the dealer told me that CRDs were "Illegal" in this state. http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... highlight=[url]it is a very easy repair and I can provide more info if you need it. Second problem I did the MAF for a while for the EGR and bought a cheap scan tool to clear the code. When my wife started driving the jeep i did not trust her with checking the scan tool regularly so I plugged the MAF back in and got egr codes about 4 month later which led to the purchase of the GDE tune and have not had anymore problems so those are 2 options for you.[/url]

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2005 Liberty CRD, 245/75R16, OME CRD Springs front, OME HD rear

Joe I don't work with computers predominately (luckily), but other electronics applications. And many times in the past, it does take software changes to fix some hardware issues. Sometimes multiple changes as issues continue to develope. I'm sure it will continue to be so. I do agree with that whole hartedly. I only wish I was retired - instead of just tired.

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05 KJ - Lt Khaki CRD Sport - w/GDE Eco, Franky II, Al's 4.5 Arms, JK Rubi Moabs, Silent Armors, Spidertrax Adapters, Rola Basket
05 TJ - Silver RME Auto with some Stuff

Well all I can say is:

I am confused!

I have some what problem forking our $500 for a software solution, that I have not heard of. I have heard of the SEGR solution with many people being happy with it. I too had the fuel filter lose and thats why she died! never the less we still have the EGR problem issue. I can tell that sometimes the Libby seem to run a bit rough especially after hard accelerations, back to smooth normal driving. The motor seem to run on 3 cylinders or a some spark plugs aren't firing right (I know no plugs, thats what it feels like).

I am very grateful for the info provided here in re: of the priming, which helped!

I too see the GDE as advertisement, rather than a real help in determining how to solve our EGR problem. I agree, that if the GDE tune would be so good, most of the 11.000 CRD's sold would want to have and have one.
I don't mind, if a vender gives help and states, that he is a vendor, but the problem as Ranger1 writes. I agree, that now I am more confused than before and still have my EGR issues.

Lastly I want to thank all the people that do and did help us.

_________________
06' Liberty 4x4 CRD
Mopar Skids, CB, Recaro child seat

As you posted, you're still under Chrysler warranty. This limits your warranty options to whatever your available dealerships can diagnose and are willing to replace. For the immediate term, it might be best to prioritize your efforts and have your CRD repaired, then work on a longer term plan without the stress of a non running vehicle.

You have mentioned air in your fuel head causing a no start issue. This is a common failure on the CRD with the original factory fuel head. There is information on this site listing a new Chrysler fuel head that reportedly solves this problem. Locate that TSB (you'll have to search this site for it) and show it to your dealer. If the problem persists after that, you can add a lift pump, or as some advocate, trace down every possible source of minute air leaks and repair them so that you can run a pristine factory configuration. Your choice. Both are options.

EGR issues - if you're having them you'll have to defer to the dealership while you're under warranty. For now, that should clear the confusion by limiting your choices. There are other options available, not many, but they are available once your vehicle is out of warranty. Just don't be misled by Internet charlatans if they try to offer snake oil software fixes for a jammed open egr valve, if that's what your egr problem is.

Use your common sense filter when you read testimonials from CRD owners who think a software patch repaired failed hardware. It can't. If you want to know why, don't take my word for it, call a university and arrange to talk with any professor/teacher teaching software programming. Be informed for yourself rather than make a decision from Internet based advice alone. Those computer and "electronic application" software patches they speak of almost always fix software bugs which among other things, caused working hardware to operate incorrectly, or not at all, or they bypassed the disabled hardware when possible. It may look like magic but it isn't.

I spent several years in college learning to write software and not one time did I ever take a single course or hear one professor making a claim that software can fix broken or damaged hardware once it fails. As always, it's buyer beware. As Retmil46 posted, if you want a tune, then buy one of your choice for the right reasons, but not to fix broken or jammed egr hardware. Buying a tune for a CRD with hardware failures is asking for more problems down the road.

If you buy any tune that disables emissions related codes even when there are problems, you won't know if a problem occurs until large black clouds of smoke show up at your tailpipe, your engine starts misfiring, fuel economy drops and your engine oil is diluted by excess fuel from poor combustion problems. This isn't a desirable solution.

Longer term, if you have the skills to perform repairs and upgrades yourself, information is available in the CRD tech section that may help you. You'll have to research them for yourself rather than endure the illogical advice being offered in this thread. If you don't have the skills but want to learn them, locate some other Jeep or diesel enthusiasts in your area and start with the basics. Just don't start too fast and be sure you have someone to help you as you learn. This will take time and effort and it won't happen overnight.

If your interests aren't in that direction and in preparation for you warranty expiration, you may want to start research now for a reputable diesel mechanic in your area, who is competent and ethical. This will take some time, but will be worth the effort. A mechanic with Sprinter or Dodge diesel experience would be a good starting point, but only a starting point. Unless you are one of the fortunate ones with an excellent Jeep dealership.

Good luck.

_________________
2005 LTD CRD RB1 NAV/Htd Leather seats/Amsoil EA filters
SunCoast Mega Trans & Billet TC/PML pan/Aux cooler
Fuel cooler/Lift Pump/10um Pri/Racor R490 2um Sec Fuel Filters
IronMan Lift/Shocks/Provent/Moog ball joints/ V6 Airbox/Fan/Hayden
Cobalt Boost/EGT/Oil/Trans/Volt gauges/Aeroturbine 2525
Yeti Hot Tune/Odessey 65/Samco's/Michelin Defenders

Well, first you need to figure out what is going on. Sounds like you have two issues:

1. air in fuel
2. EGR issues of some sort.

You need to solve both. Priming the fuel filter head all the time is not really solving it. If the head is loosing prime, you have to fix it for the vehicle to run right. You may have to break down and get a real mechanic to fix your EGR valve (it is the valve or the flow control valve or both). Chrysler does not have any real diesel mechanics, so I would plan on taking it to a real shop after they fail. Of course, if you are under warranty-- take it in and let them throw parts at it. They may get lucky and fix it. If not, you got new parts (if they don't break anything else in the process).

If I were out of warranty, I would take that EGR apart and clean it-- it usually jams when it gets gummed up. Then disable it (SEGR or GDE tune). The GDE tune is worth the money for the fuel savings and performance increase, I have the SEGR installed and now the GDE tune. Both of them may, or may not, work around your EGR problem. They will not fix the defective/ jammed part, however.

BTW, If the EGR was stuck open-- you would know it. You would have a plume of black smoke coming out the rear and no power. Don't have both of those? Probably stuck closed.

And one more thing...

I have been here awhile.. I remember when the SEGR came out. Lots of naysayers then, but their was more respect for the people developing and supplying the SEGR. On a few of the SEGR threads from way back, someone talked about curing a EGR stuck closed by just installing the SEGR. Several people involved with the SEGR said that it could be done and would work-- provided the EGR was stuck closed and stayed that way. No one jumped them about it, no one had a cow over it. No one cried foul.

Here, someone offered help, and made the same statement for a tune that shuts off the EGR-- as was made for the SEGR. They did not say anything that was untruthful. If the EGR is stuck closed (and most of them stick that way) then a tune or SEGR will let you continue to operate the vehicle without a CEL. No big woopdie doo. The only unsubstantiated accusations I see here are ones that are not being made by GDE, but by detractors with some sort of an axe to grind.

There are only a hand full of these orphaned vehicles and anyone who chooses to develop a quality product to support them is not going to get rich doing it. Accusing them of trying to rob you out of your money for making a quality with no real proof and just innuendo and wording semantics is pretty cowardly.

If someone has bought the product and is not satisfied with it, then I am should we would be interested in knowing why or in knowing if you were treated ill by GDE. I have not heard from any real customers complaining about them, only "internet charlatans" who are very quick to make accusations.

X2.
As I read through this thread, I can't find a SINGLE post where GDE has claimed that their tune can fix the EGR valve. What they do claim, is that the CEL will be eliminated with their tune, which is fine, good and true. They provided diagnostic instructions to determine if the OP's EGR was stuck open or closed, and offered to provide a valve cleaning writeup for cutezangel if his EGR valve was indeed stuck open. Only when specifically asked for a solution by the OP, did they offer their opinion of their own product, and encouraged the OP to research their product with other CRD owners before simply taking their word that their product is the best.

GED has made some possibly unintentionally inaccurate claims in other threads, but their product is the best out there, and they certainly don't use unethical tactics or bent the rules to make a few sales to us poor schmucks, who everyone else has forgotten.

_________________
Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

When SEGR came out I waited until after end of stock DC warranty - installed at 37K miles- Being frugal as one should be I went the build it yourself route- it did not work - Talked to UFO and got a prebuilt purchased- no problems ever since. Almost 50K miles on SEGR---
I try to keep $$$ at a min on this Jeep $$ draining hobby - and the only thing that is holding me up from a GDE purchase is the cost.
GDE's reputation and reputability and honesty is intact and good in my mind-- its just the expense of it all!


Roland

_________________
2006 CRD LTD 2.8L VM Motori turbo,CAC, 100K-new timing belt
ORM-SEGR, Trans cooler, CLIII hitch front/rear, Journey HD controller
Mopar skids,"Stone Soup" rails, KK clevis fork 1" mild lift w/Daystar stops
215x85 LRD BFG Commercial A/T's, Rola Rack, V6 airbox, Fumoto valve
10K winch, B5 Biodiesel (ULSD CP3 lube)
Its a Diesel baby!

Disabling the EGR valve is essential to avoid the excruciating cost of intake manifold cleaning. The SEGR is a great product which I bought, preassembled, over a year ago. However, had I not encountered a true auto electrical wizard (Bruce at Webb Auto in Danvers Mass.) who had just installed one on his '06 CRD, I would have never installed it due to complexity that is beyond most mere mortals.

What nobody seems to mention is the cost. It ran almost $400 to get the SEGR built and installed and Bruce charged me half his normal shop rate because of my being a LOST member. I went with this and an InMotion stage II tune because IM claimed the EGR could not be disabled by ECU tuning. I was skeptical about that, but there were no other known options at the time. IM improved power (see my dyno test posts) by a lot, fuel mileage by a little and created a "shudder" problem. IM charged $100 to "clone" a spare ECU to my OEM ECU and $350 for the tune.

Then GDE came along. They eliminated the need for SEGR, made a huge improvement in fuel mileage and can "clone" an ECU for you for no charge with just your VIN and injector codes. (You don't have to send them two ECUs, if you want, as I do, to retain your OEM in an unmodified state.) I put the OEM ECU in whenever the Jeep goes in for warranty work and I lose 8-9 MPG over the GDE. The GDE "eco" has significantly less power than IM (10HP and 25 lb/ft torque) but more than stock and no shudder with a stock TC. As soon as they have optimised their "hot" tune for the new heavier duty "euro" TC, I'll put one in, head back to the dyno and update you all with the latest results.

I'm not on any particular "side" here in terms of individual decisions, but there is no question about the facts. The least expensive way to address the EGR issue, improve power, economy and eliminate "shudder" with a stock TC is the GDE "eco" tune.

BTW, I am running the bypass plug in my SEGR.

DOC

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2005 KJ CRD Ltd Detroit TrueTrac Bilsteins G2 GDE "HOT" ECU GDE TCM "Tow Tune" "euro" TC SEGR Weeks Elbow New HG at 130K ARPs Clean CAT aFe Filter Magnaflow Exhaust EHM Cumminos In-Tank Lift Pump Hayden Fan Clutch Nylon Fan VH Enabled with GDE lower shutoff point Recalibrated Temp Gauge Tekonsha Prodigy Sears P-1 ZDDP