Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????

flman · **Posted:** Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:44 pm

stoutdog wrote:

flman,

I'll play into your stereotype... 23 and a doctoral student in the university system. :SOMBRERO:

But I'm no scientific genius! I just know lots of folks, of all ages, who are :jester:

Stoutdog, you are OK in my book. :google:

(when are they going to put a real thumbs up on this site?)

boilermaker2 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:24 pm

I wish they would have left the "panties in a wad section" so that I could find threads like this more easily... :ROTFL:

Now I have to pour through all the threads to find gems like this one. :dizzy:

Its a conspiracy.

And according to this thread, I'm too young to give a :furious:

Boilermaker2

flman · **Posted:** Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:38 pm

Guys don't take age personal, you are lucky to have your youth, us older guys have experienced more and have our wisdom. To some old guys I may still be a kid, to younger guys I may be an old dude. But I always like to hear the wisdom of an older guy.

Pawn Stars, my favorite character the Old Man, I love the way he explains things in such a simple manner. Sort of like Rick going to the Dr. for stress (and I thought only women did that) Old Man says, "We never sat around and squeezed our balls talking about stress, we would just go have a glass of scotch, and our stress was gone." He is still an old man to me, and I appreciate his wisdom. Wisdom is not a scientific theory, or something from google, it comes with real life experiences.

Another one was an old farmer, he said the best way to set up a cold storage cooler for apple storage, is a bucket of water with a skim of ice on the top is perfect. He used wisdom, not a fancy scientific instrument.

He also said we never had so many problems until people went to college and got educated :ROTFL:

stoutdog · **Posted:** Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:47 pm

flman wrote:

reka12 wrote:

49. I am with chrismc

"If you under 40 and a conservative, you have no heart. If you are over 40 and a liberal, you have no brains."

Winston Churchill

:ROTFL:

I don't know what side you are on, but usually the greenies like the liberal politicians. I just had to throw that one in :goink:

That's actually a commonly misattributed quote, I believe... but that's for another thread :goink:

flman · **Posted:** Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:41 pm

More proof, scientists say what the government tells them to say.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101006/ap_ ... _oil_spill

dkenny · **Posted:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:23 am

old enough to think that recovering freon is a good idea..even without a gov't mandate..why??I relate it to dumping oil/gas on the ground..its just bad for the environment. and no not because of the Ozone scare..it just doesn't belong in the air..so why not recovery it..and reuse?

for dates on products...hum..does it smell good..then forget the date..My mom and her mom used to 'can' vegetables..what date code? I remember my grandma count the number of lids the snapped while they cooled to make sure all was sealed and safe.

and yes I used to drink from a garden hose..but no I don't buy bottled water either..tap is just fine.
now I just remove the hose first..

-dkenny

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:15 am

dkenny wrote:

old enough to think that recovering freon is a good idea..even without a gov't mandate..why??-dkenny

I hope all the bacteria in the soil that used to dine on freon found some other food to eat and survive.
Besides we need them around to eat up all the other nasty stuff like waste products from illegal drug manufacturers that are dumped on the ground and not properly disposed of.

Soil bacteria ate up the Di-oxen at Times Beach, MO and the grass finished up by using their crap as fertilizer.
Ocean bacteria ate up a lot of the oil spilled by the New Horizon rig this year, all they needed to do the job is have some nitrogen and phosphorus that came from lawn fertilizer.
Bio-remediation is a big word that most tree huggers can't pronounce or understand.

flman: Please let us know when they require you to blast the charge/recovery fittings with UV to prevent any freon/refrigerant eating bacteria from eating up your recovered freon/refrigerant in the storage tanks. :ROTFL:

Cleaning the dirt off the fittings (that has indigenous freon munching bacteria in it) is a good idea that is practiced by your industry with out any stupid regulations.
Correct? :ROTFL:

chrismc · **Posted:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:05 am

warp2diesel wrote:

Soil bacteria ate up the Di-oxen at Times Beach, MO and the grass finished up by using their crap as fertilizer.

I have no idea where you get your [mis-]information from, but that is flat-out wrong. Times Beach was a Superfund cleanup site. They built an on-site incinerator and incinerated over 260,000 tons of soil and building materials that were contaminated with dioxin and PCB's. The entire town was deemed uninhabitable and is now set aside as a state park.

flman · **Posted:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:37 pm

dkenny wrote:

old enough to think that recovering freon is a good idea..even without a gov't mandate..why??I relate it to dumping oil/gas on the ground..its just bad for the environment. and no not because of the Ozone scare..it just doesn't belong in the air..so why not recovery it..and reuse?
-dkenny

That is the biggest joke, most of the freon leaks out any ways, the small percentage that actually gets recovered and makes you feel all warm and cozy inside is insignificant. One day I was recovering freon at a guys home who owns an appliance store NYC. He laughed so hard at us for actually doing this, he said, "No one in the city actually does this." He said one guy put a fitting on the side of a tool box and wrote "Recovery Machine" on it. All those old refrigerators are put on a barge and shipped out. Besides we don't even reuse it, we put it in a cylinder and return it to the supply house, don't know what happens then, it is like Soylent Green? Maybe it is shipped to Dupont and they vent it into the atmosphere?

You guys are dreaming if you think these laws has lowered the release of refrigerants. Just like all your other dreams that big brother is going to save us from our selves.

flman · **Posted:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:40 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

flman: Please let us know when they require you to blast the charge/recovery fittings with UV to prevent any freon/refrigerant eating bacteria from eating up your recovered freon/refrigerant in the storage tanks. :ROTFL:

Cleaning the dirt off the fittings (that has indigenous freon munching bacteria in it) is a good idea that is practiced by your industry with out any stupid regulations.
Correct? :ROTFL:

Oh Sheet, there goes the price of refrigeration & HVAC through the roof again. Cha Ching :2cents:

flman · **Posted:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:42 pm

chrismc wrote:

I have no idea where you get your [mis-]information from, but that is flat-out wrong. Times Beach was a Superfund cleanup site. They built an on-site incinerator and incinerated over 260,000 tons of soil and building materials that were contaminated with dioxin and PCB's. The entire town was deemed uninhabitable and is now set aside as a state park.

Chris, you said we should back up our statements with links, I put at least a half a dozen up so far, you have not responded to one yet?

chrismc · **Posted:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 4:54 pm

flman wrote:

chrismc wrote:

I have no idea where you get your [mis-]information from, but that is flat-out wrong. Times Beach was a Superfund cleanup site. They built an on-site incinerator and incinerated over 260,000 tons of soil and building materials that were contaminated with dioxin and PCB's. The entire town was deemed uninhabitable and is now set aside as a state park.

Chris, you said we should back up our statements with links, I put at least a half a dozen up so far, you have not responded to one yet?

I didn't think it was necessary in this case, as anyone who is familiar with Times Beach knows all about the incinerator. Using on-site incineration as remediation for this site was a HUGE deal to people living in the St Louis area (such as myself), since we are directly downwind from Times Beach. The stuff they were incinerating was really nasty stuff, with toxins up to 100x stronger than those in Agent Orange.

Since you asked, here's this year's EPA site report, outlining the remediation steps that took place: http://www.epa.gov/region7/cleanup/npl_ ... 685226.pdf
Here is a more detailed report on the process: http://www.clu-in.org/download/remed/incpdf/times.pdf

flman · **Posted:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:05 pm

chrismc wrote:

flman wrote:

Chris, you said we should back up our statements with links, I put at least a half a dozen up so far, you have not responded to one yet?

I didn't think it was necessary in this case, as anyone who is familiar with Times Beach knows all about the incinerator. Using on-site incineration as remediation for this site was a HUGE deal to people living in the St Louis area (such as myself), since we are directly downwind from Times Beach. The stuff they were incinerating was really nasty stuff, with toxins up to 100x stronger than those in Agent Orange.

Since you asked, here's this year's EPA site report, outlining the remediation steps that took place: http://www.epa.gov/region7/cleanup/npl_ ... 685226.pdf
Here is a more detailed report on the process: http://www.clu-in.org/download/remed/incpdf/times.pdf

I already told you I don't trust scientists that are playing god. I gave you a bunch of links on fraudulent scientists, and a link on the government telling scientists to shut up about the oil spill. In light of all the lies and fraud, why should I believe any thing from the EPA?

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:50 pm

EPA is covering their butt with Male Bovine Excrement, they do it all the time. Unlike any un-named desk Jockeys, I get to see it and be around it all the time.
Investigate beyond the EPA Male Bovine Excrement, the bacteria munched up and digested the remaining Time Beach, MO Dioxin before they fed what they did to the incinerator in an attempt to burn it up. At the end the contractor was hauling clean dirt and played the game with the EPA all the way to the last teaspoon full to get the Super Fund Money Pork. But again, the EPA buries their incompetence and screw ups in Male Bovine Excrement all the time.
Again Bio-Remediation is a big word many do not understand.
Another "SUPER FUND SITE" I was at, was in Springfield, Vermont. They ran the landfill leachate into a stainless steel aeration tank with plastic media balls. When the bacteria finished up the pre-treatment job, the effluent was discharged into the City Sewer Plant to finish up the treatment. Cost at the time was $1,400 every six months to replace the balls that got overly coated by the ancestors of the bacteria and could no longer function. When I went to school $1,400 every six months was cheaper than millions of dollars, I guess a Bio-Remediation Engineer steeped in and did the job before the EPA could screw it up.
Again Bio-Remediation is a big word many do not understand.

Not All the EPA employees are idiots, but if and when the Government has to do like industry does, I hope they hire an outside HR contractor to lay off the right idiots. One way to sort them out would be to turn them loose in a woods with Black Locust trees and let them hug the trees. :lol:

boilermaker2 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 6:53 pm

Since after-action reports won't work, why don't we ratchet it back to just pictures (please don't give me the PhotoShop BS line). I realize that some scientists have stopped the search for knowledge and replaced it with a misguided pushing of their personal or holistic agenda but that is certainly not all of them.

Remember, that the cream rises to the top and hope floats (like a t*rd). Unfortunately, a lot of damage can be done between now and then...

Some real nicely engineered machinery precluded by our expanding scientific body of knowledge through experimentation:

http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/view/98f6a52de8aa7800437d7a2223f6626d/mps/Times-Beach/

:5SHOTS:

Boilermaker2

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 7:24 pm

Let me stick up for the Contractors (Including Time Beach, MO), they have to do what is in the contract, right or wrong as long as it is legal. Hauling dirt especially when it is clean is a gravy job they don't want to walk away from. With our wonderful Government trying to change anything mid stream costs lots more than finishing it up.
People like flman, contractors, operators, Engineer's, & technician's get to see what really happens out in the real world.
We all resent accusations of miss-information from those who act and appear to be nothing more than Government Contract PR Trolls, or Google clickers.

boilermaker2 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 08, 2010 3:36 pm

warp2diesel wrote:

...We all resent accusations of miss-information from those who act and appear to be nothing more than Government Contract PR Trolls, or Google clickers.

Warp I hope you're not talking about anyone on this site. The mystical people you are referencing, which I do know a few, would not buy this vehicle, certainly wouldn't keep this vehicle and I am quite certain would not bother learning about this vehicle via this site. If anything, they would build a case file against us.

I am not sure if "Google clicker" is a derogatory name or not. After all, you did just use a reality show using tourist truck drivers in the Himalayas on the History Channel as validation for not buying a Mahindra, right?

The fact is that good people have good things that happen to them and accidents do occur and the environment can be affected. We've had a field turn to (figuratively speaking) glass due to a pipeline break in the late 80's in Henry County, I had to help a guy with IDEM when he misapplied a herbecide on his shared pond and floated fish, there is a section of ground within 10 miles of my home where nothing has grown for 20+ years, Times Beach occurred (last I knew it had the highest dear population in MO). I've been directly involved with some of these happenings but cannot divulge, and no, I wasn't shilling for the government.

Take care Warp. I hope you were just having a bad day.

Boilermaker2

flman · **Posted:** Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:09 pm

boilermaker2 wrote:

I am not sure if "Google clicker" is a derogatory name or not. After all, you did just use a reality show using tourist truck drivers in the Himalayas on the History Channel as validation for not buying a Mahindra, right?

Actually, I am the one that said I would not buy a Mahindra, and it goes beyond a reality show, but that helped to seal the deal for me seeing the crap they have for cars and trucks. I personally know Google clickers in real life, I describe them as people with no life skills, but they act like know it all because Google is like a crutch to them in life. Makes me glad I grew up with out a computer and the internet, I learned in the school of hard knocks.

boilermaker2 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 08, 2010 4:19 pm

OK, I'm clear. I actually get paid undoing some of the messes Google clickers create so I guess my nerve was stepped on a little.

Not caring who invented the internet (sorry, Al) or ARPANET (or DARPARNET); I grew up right as DOS was being rolled out. Knowing how and why things work behind the Windows veneer comes in handy occaisionally.

Panties unwadded :ROTFL:

Boilermaker2

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:30 pm

flman wrote:

I know, and a scientist would never make up a BS story, not that I am doubting what you posted on the Stratosphere, we had to learn that bunk to be EPA certified to handle freon. Learning it, did not make me recover freon any different, nor did it convince me it was any thing more then another scam.

Scammer: Jan Hendrik Schon http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch%C3%B6n_scandal

Non Scammer: Charles F Kettering http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_F._Kettering

When I offered up the Schon link it was to an example of: When one lies about the data, it will eventually be found out.

It wasn't intended to be: See, this guy lied and therefore all scientists are likely to lie.

The Schon episode occurred while I was a student in graduate school. It was held up as an example of why one needs to have scientific integrity. When it comes to government regulations, there is so much political reasoning that gets mixed in that the results or meaning of the data gets lost and simply becomes the bickering one reads about on this board.

Data from experiments is just what it is: data. Interpretation and if needed, required actions are sometimes obvious. Sometimes the interpretation isn't obvious. Interpretations from two upstanding scientists can be pretty different. This usually leads to more experimentation to determine "who is right."

As a scientist in a corporate environment, it does me no service to lie about data I've collected or purposely misinterpret the results to further some agenda. I can lose my job. It also betrays the trust of my colleagues and the overall scientific establishment. Getting employed again gets difficult. And if you guys knew any personally, you would find that most scientific types just want to learn.

The ban on Freon-12 stopped it's use in things outside of air conditioning systems. It used to be used as a propellant in aerosol cans and also used in dry cleaning. This is one of the most cited "government-corporate conspiracies."

...sometimes Google-clicking can lead to less ignorance...though it can feed it as well: http://www.imcool.com/articles/aircondi ... istory.htm

For the uniformed, patent coverage, for a specific patent, lasts for a maximum of 20 years for the date it is filed.

It not like I get excited and yearn for more regulations. I understand why some are put in place. I don't understand why some are so stringent. Many of these things are written for urbran areas and don't apply to rural areas. The one thing I was in favor of is raising the CAFE numbers while back. Now the proposal to get them to ~50 mpg by 2020...not so sure that is reasonably possible and I hope a reasonable goal comes out of it.

Latest from BBC we need more Sulfur Dioxide??????

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