surge at take offs

boilermaker2 · **Posted:** Mon May 16, 2011 9:22 am

Here is what I can do to successfully recreate this.

1.Drive for 20-30 minutes.
2.Park for 2-3 hours (or lunch)
3.BGack out of parking spot immediate after start-up & immediately drop in drive
4.Jeep takes off like rubber bad acceleration
5.Idle up to stop sign at end of parking lot (~200 ft)
6.Hit breaks and Jeep surges ahead, it'll even stall if not bumped into nuetral

I can also reacreate this in the morning. If you start and idle for a few moments, you will here a noticeable change in clatter as the pumps primes (I guess) and it will revert back to normal clatter. Pull the vehicle out of the garage and get out of the vehicle and you will see what I mean. It will do this especially after being driven at highway speeds with delayed tranny engagement.

This is most likely the front pump option of which FLMan has created a solution for on the CRD Tech-only forum pages. I am going to have the transmission gone through at 150k and solve it the old fashion way of part swapping the pump upgrade the TC.

Good luck, its part of the Jeep's "allure" or "personality" :mrgreen:

until you throw time, money or both at it to fix the problem. Unlike other issues, I would not consider it life-threatening (to you or the Jeep) unless it lunges into oncomming traffic because the operator cannot handle the situation :dizzy:

. Start-up, boot-up is the cure. Yet another reason why the Mrs. is not allowed to drive the Jeep.
:5SHOTS:

B2

camo · **Posted:** Mon May 16, 2011 4:14 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

camo wrote:

well, a week ago took it to riveroaks jeep and they did a tranny service (flush, filter, oil) and they said it all looked ok. however, I just chek the tanny oil today and before starting the crd (cold) the fuild showed at the highest hot mark dot of the tranny dipstick, then i started it and drove it about 3 miles and recheck, this time the oil was a bit lower than the lower hot mark dot of the the tranny dipstik. Does that mean something out of the ordinary? could it be whats causing the issues?
thnx

Your jumping all over the place with your "surge" :furious:

Stop and take a deep breath. Then check your fluid properly. Start the jeep after letting it sit overnight and move the shifter between all the gears and with it running check the fluid level. It should be at the COLD level. Then drive it long enough to get it totally warmed up, maybe 5 miles or so. Then check the level. It should be in the HOT level.

Have you read Sir Sam's noob guide and downloaded the FSM :?:

Now reading one of your posts you said:

"I get to a stop sign, brake gradually until dead stop, wait 3 sec then release the brake and before I even hit the gas again I fell the surge as if someone bump my rear"

What your discribing in that situation sounds like the slip joint in the rear driveshaft binding on the splines of the transmission. It's a simple fix of removing the drive shaft and putting some grease on the splines shaft :BANANA:

It happens because when your stopping the rear end of the jeep raises up and the drive shaft moves outward from the transmssion. Then when you let off the brakes the rear settles back to normal and the drive shaft then needs to slide back into the transmission. It is at this time the driveshaft binds and you get what is best discribed as a "feeling" that something is amiss. I've owned 3 automatic XJ's (cherokees) and they have all done this untill I lubed the slip joint. This sensation can vary from being just noticable to good thump. My CRD has recently started doing it too, I suspect the proper grease or any grease was not used when the TC was replaced, and I've choosen to ignore for now :JEEPIN:

Ok, That explains the "surge" or "feeling" but if it is only mechanical like in your explanation shouldn't it all ways do it under the same circumstances? another thing is that it only happens at normal operating temp. any way, your fix sounds straight forward and your explanation makes a lot of sense. can you recomend a good grease to put on the splines?
Also, I see you are quite familiar with these lil vehicles, would you tell me if there is a way to know if the f37 TSB was ever perform? or how do I know what TC am I using? any help is appreciated. thnx :mrgreen:

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon May 16, 2011 5:17 pm

I'll let Joe follow up on the surge issues. With respect to the F-37 you can check with any Jeep dealer on what recalls apply to your CRD and which ones have been done and I think you can do the same on the "for owners" portion of the Jeep web site. If I recall early year build 2006s were included but late build ones came from the factory with it already done and I think the 2nd gen TC. Either way the F-37 was 2 parts: 1) a check of the TC "sound" and replacement if deemed necessary likely with the 2nd gen TC (not to be confused with the Euro TC which came along later) and I don't know of any way to tell if your vehicle had F-37 done at a dealer whether or not that service included a new TC without asking at that time and 2) a reflash of the TCM which changed shift points (applies to F-37 at dealer or at factory). In the latter case the easy way to tell is get the vehicle up to operating temp; get out on the highway; run it up to 55mph; gradually increase speed from there; if your last shift point is a 58mph you don't have the flash but if it's ca. 62mph you have the flash.

NOTE - there are a number of folks, myself included, who have a vehicle that had the F-37 done at a dealer but either they forgot to do the flash or didn't, at customer request, do the flash. The GDE TCM returns the final shift point to 58mph and does other nice things to TC lockup in lower gears. Seems to work fine with any stock TC as long as you don't push things too hard.

camo · **Posted:** Mon May 16, 2011 8:49 pm

thnx papaindigo for alerting me about checking the service records at jeep. I did find a bunch of stuff and I have two questions. on 7/27/07 the dealer replace the stock TC for TC part# CECAF370, which I believe to to the same as the stock one, can you confirm? and then on 10/27/07 the same dealer replace the stock transmission pump for pump # 68009879AB, I believe that is the new style pump, would you confirm on that too plz?
I just couldn't find nothing about the flash thing, I'll do some frwy testing tomorrow to see if i can pick on those details about the TC lock up.
thnx again, you info its been of much help.
:pepper:

racertracer · **Posted:** Mon May 16, 2011 9:04 pm

I believe that you may have the old converter, the new euro style converter wasn't available till late 2009, and if your ECU has not been flashed with the F37 update, I would count my blessings and leave that alone.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue May 17, 2011 8:04 am

camo wrote:

Ok, That explains the "surge" or "feeling" but if it is only mechanical like in your explanation shouldn't it all ways do it under the same circumstances? another thing is that it only happens at normal operating temp. any way, your fix sounds straight forward and your explanation makes a lot of sense. can you recomend a good grease to put on the splines?
Also, I see you are quite familiar with these lil vehicles, would you tell me if there is a way to know if the f37 TSB was ever perform? or how do I know what TC am I using? any help is appreciated. thnx :mrgreen:

Updates: Others have given the same info so I'll edit this post.

There were at least three pre F37 TCM programs :dizzy:

My original Jan 27, 2006 production came with Ai and the used one I have is AF so there's two between what I have and what it came with.
F37 is AJ :grim:

Some better code scanners, like my VAG-COM (for VW's) will read the part numbers from the program inside the TCM and ECM and the last two positions will be alpha charecters and that indicates the flash level.

F37'ed ECM's can have a couple of different levels because there has been a update or two for them after F37. You can't go by what's on the stickers as many only have the original ones on them.

Slip joint grease. I read on another mostly Cherokee forum years ago that GM had a special, very expensive, slip joint grease. Regular grease lasts about a year. I used anti seeze on a 1996 XJ with good results. As for when it occures it does not seem to be real consistant and I'm not sure why.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue May 17, 2011 8:24 am

CECAF370 apparently refers to the F-37 "package", see viewtopic.php?f=5&t=60152&p=668040&hilit=CECAF370#p668040, which as I understand it included a new TC if deemed necessary. Sounds to me like you did get a new TC as part of the F-37 package and that would have been the 2nd gen TC that was used on the late year build 2006 CRDs but definitely NOT the Euro TC.

68009879AB appears to be the new style tranny pump.

camo · **Posted:** Wed May 18, 2011 8:57 am

I was looking at the ECM yesterday while installing a provent and I saw that the ECM has a sticker that reads "authorized software update P56044562C sequence#524720" does it means my ECM was flash already? or is it just another sticker besides the main sticker?
I have a pic, plz let me know how I load pics here :lol:

thnx

camo · **Posted:** Wed May 18, 2011 5:10 pm

papaindigo wrote:

I'll let Joe follow up on the surge issues. With respect to the F-37 you can check with any Jeep dealer on what recalls apply to your CRD and which ones have been done and I think you can do the same on the "for owners" portion of the Jeep web site. If I recall early year build 2006s were included but late build ones came from the factory with it already done and I think the 2nd gen TC. Either way the F-37 was 2 parts: 1) a check of the TC "sound" and replacement if deemed necessary likely with the 2nd gen TC (not to be confused with the Euro TC which came along later) and I don't know of any way to tell if your vehicle had F-37 done at a dealer whether or not that service included a new TC without asking at that time and 2) a reflash of the TCM which changed shift points (applies to F-37 at dealer or at factory). In the latter case the easy way to tell is get the vehicle up to operating temp; get out on the highway; run it up to 55mph; gradually increase speed from there; if your last shift point is a 58mph you don't have the flash but if it's ca. 62mph you have the flash.

NOTE - there are a number of folks, myself included, who have a vehicle that had the F-37 done at a dealer but either they forgot to do the flash or didn't, at customer request, do the flash. The GDE TCM returns the final shift point to 58mph and does other nice things to TC lockup in lower gears. Seems to work fine with any stock TC as long as you don't push things too hard.

ok, I try this and my final shift is more in between 58 and 60, do you thing it is still with the stock programming or wait flash?

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed May 18, 2011 5:48 pm

camo wrote:

ok, I try this and my final shift is more in between 58 and 60, do you thing it is still with the stock programming or wait flash?

So that's 59 mph just like my Ai version TCM and yours excaped the dull knife of the "flasher" :grim:

It would be interesting to know what level of flashes that are in your ECM and TCM :idea:

Ther were a number of ECM flashes before and after the F37 for various things so a update sticker dosen't mean a whole lot :JEEPIN:

camo · **Posted:** Wed May 18, 2011 7:40 pm

ok... thnx for that tip. is there a way to know the kind of I have? flash, also, I grease the driveshft spline and it improve a liltle but that makes me wonder if there is anything missing down there. is there anything else you thing I should check? thnx :POPCORN:

surge at take offs

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