So...What is the argument about?

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Acceleration is about torque AT THE WHEEL. Therefore engine HP is KING and proper gearing is the guy in the sky (stoopid word checking system)

http://www.vettenet.org/torquehp.html

http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/torq ... epower.htm

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L.O.S.T forever!
Silver 2002 Skoda Fabia TDI, 235,000km
Former car: Jeep KJ 2003 CRD

DIESEL - saving millions of liters of petrol every day!

This thread has gotten ridiculous. Pablo, tjkj2002, thank you for your level-headedness. The CRD wouldn't let me drive at 9/10ths on the twisty mountain roads around here, and my M3 wouldn't tow my trailer. Gassers don't lend themselves to turbocharging, wtf? Turbocharged gassers can be truly spectacular to drive. (Come drive my restored 1986 Shelby Omni GLHS and you'll be a believer.) Being an enthusiast in some area doesn't automatically mean that all other alternatives suck.

- Chris

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Used to own:
2006 CRD Sport
Suncoast TC, Transgo shift kit, Inmotion, ORM, EHM, Magnaflow SS exhaust, Fumoto valve, EVIC added, Hensley TruControl brake controller, Pirelli Scorpion ATR LR-D in spring/summer/fall, FIA winter front and Blizzaks in winter

Agreed. ...and I'd love to have an M3. ...got a CRD for trailer towing. ...and gosh, these guys like their diesels.

As far as turbocharging gassers...it's just a little more complicated than for diesels. Diesels are easier because the amount of boost and compression ratios don't have to be controlled as precisely because we want the fuel to detonate. For a gasser, more design is required because the goal is to ignite fuel/air by spark. The boost has to be controlled more precisely due not wanting the compression ratio to get too so high as to detonate the fuel. It's not that it doesn't work well, it just takes more effort to get it to that point. ...and I'm a little jealous, I learned to drive in a '87 Dodge Omni...loved that dinky car...sadly, the "Om-bomb" wasn't a turbo like yours.

I didn't mean to give the impression that gasoline engines can't be turbocharged, just that they do not lend themselves to it as well a diesels do. The process becomes much more complicated with a spark ignition engine, but on some prototype gas direct injection stratified charge engines, the results are truly impressive when combined with heavy boosting pressures.

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Here is what we do for fun on our turbo’ed off road cars.
We pump the compression up on the engine to about 10:1, and then push about 25 PSI of boost through it. To keep it from detonating (as gas won’t allow for this compression ratio and boost level), the computer switches over to another set of injectors.
The second set of injectors is on methanol. The advantages here are methanol engines like higher compression and detonation is gone.
The best part is the fun ratio goes through the roof!

Off topic, the GLHS is undergoing restoration. Check out pictures here:

shell
misc. parts
engine

It's not a very aggressive engine build, as I wanted to replicate the character of the original car as much as possible. He's figuring on about 325hp, 350ft-lb out of the intercooled 2.2L SOHC old-school Dodge motor. Stock, it sounded winded and unhappy at 5000rpm. It'll be interesting to see how it drives with some mods.

nursecosmo, I definitely agree that more care must be taken in turbocharging gassers, since the pistons and blocks really don't like running beyond design spec. Sorry for misunderstanding your post at first. Despite more stringent requirements needed in the control system, I do feel that a turbocharged gasser can deliver an amazing driving experience. I test-drove a BMW 335 once. Man, state of the art twin-turbo system on an inherently-balanced inline 6... it was just beautiful to experience. It was like the turbocharged sound of ripping silk.

Audi's work with diesel at Le Mans, and the BMW 335d make me wonder if there is room for diesel sports cars? Check out the following video and turn up the speakers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E97w5rn0H0Y

- Chris

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Used to own:
2006 CRD Sport
Suncoast TC, Transgo shift kit, Inmotion, ORM, EHM, Magnaflow SS exhaust, Fumoto valve, EVIC added, Hensley TruControl brake controller, Pirelli Scorpion ATR LR-D in spring/summer/fall, FIA winter front and Blizzaks in winter

Gas engines can reach higher rpms which allow the use of lower transmission gears at highway speeds. (My Hemi Durango would kick down into 2nd prime (1.50:1) at 80 mph and take off like a scalded cat.) Being in 2nd gear with high rpms means that gas engined vehicle will generate more axle torque than a diesel engined vehicle in 3rd or 4th. Hence it will accelerate faster at higher speeds.

A 2.8 KJ CRD will generate far more low end torque than a 3.7L, since most drag races start in first gear, the CRD will then generate more torque at the tires and pull away initally. But then it has to shift to 2nd just as the 3.7L is coming into it's own in first. After that, the 3.7L should (all things being equal) catch up and surpass the CRD eventually.

I bought a Jeep, which most people don't equate with drag racing. If I wanted that I'd have kept my 96 Camaro SS. It could drag fairly well, and turn 27 mpg on the highway without effort also. IMO, the CRD is far more useful.

I used to go off roading with guys who would have to trailer their Jeeps to the ORV park. I called them trailer queens and offered to tow them so they wouldn't have to take their pretty pickups and leave them in the parking lot. The Camaro couldn't have performed either the towing or the ORV. I've also had a 2002 3.7L KJ and can say from experience, in stock form, it didn't tow or trail nearly as well as the CRD.

Next time anyone with a gas KJ wants to race, I'll agree. 0 to 400 miles - no fill ups! Winner gets to laugh his @$$ off...

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2005 CRD Limited Flame Red w/ Renegade rock rails & light bar, AirLift 1000. 225/75R16 MT/R's on cheap black steel wheels, dual MOPAR subwoofers, Ipod kit & seat covers, Samco hoses - totaled and gone. 2008 WK Laredo 3.0L diesel - AirLift 1000, wife won't let me mess with it much. 2013 JK Sahara on order.

Sorry to drag up an old thread but reading this was quite funny I understand diesel aren't big in America but its pretty well known car manufacturers are gettin simillar performance out of diesel these days.
some examples over the quater mile the 3.0l crd grand cherokee is quicker than the 4.7l and not much slower than the 5.4l
The VW golf the TDI is heaps quicker than the standard petrol and a little bit slower than the turbo petrol.

Setting the cars up identical isnt creating a level playing field because the diesel need higher gearing to use the extra torque and petrols use higher gearing to use the extra power.

But then again compare the motors the CRD is a 16v, twin cam, varible vain turbo, alloy head, common rail injection,
the petrol is a cast iron, push rod, dinosaur from the 1940's the diesel is the lattest in technologies the petrol isn't
time for chrysler to wake up

Bump for my friend TonyCRD.

Proof's in the pudding.

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Bub
06 Inop Edition CRD Silver
06 Inop Edition CRD Green

Not bragging or promoting street racing or anything like that but I got a chance to race 2 other fellow LOST KJ owners one being a manual 6speed and one an auto.

Gave the auto a car length and a half and the 6 speed was only one car length.

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Horse Power: How fast you hit a wall.
Torque: How much of the wall you take with you.

06 CRD
OME HD w/clevis top plate
JBA 4.5 UCAs
245/75/16r Goodyear Duratrax
Fumoto Valve, V6 ABM
Rock Lizard Super Skinks
Cobra 75 WX ST
ECO GDE tune, 2.5 straight piped
ProVent, Samcoed
Non F37ed TCM
DieHard P1

You all are hillarious...gas...diesel...

Diesels are for towing, economy and low end power.
Gassers are for racing and cheaper reliable transportation.

True that diesels CAN race, and gassers CAN tow (not as efficiently I should add), but the designs and differences are are created for a reason.

I have to say when I did mount blanca trail up to 10,000ft (I did not go the whole way) I was cherishing my 4low with torque where and when I want it (down low) and loved the compression for the down hill crawling over ft tall bolders. I was also cherishing the 3 in lift, long travel shocks, and the flex w/o the rear swaybar. Gas CAN do it, Diesel can be graceful while doing it effortlessly. Gas can be more graceful if they are geared for it, but have NO hwy economy left when geared for rock crawling.

Ok, heres the BIG one -

I averaged 23 mpg with 2 hr drive there (cruise set to 80 most of the way), 4 hrs of 4-low, and a 2 hr drive back...now THAT is something a gasser couldn't do!

- Mark

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

I cant understand why you are all competing for the speed of a Jeep, it is supposed to be a slow moving off road utility vehicle. I say put 2 identical Libbys on the trail though various terrain, only difference, one a gasser, and one a CRD, then we will see who the true winner is. Which one will be able to pull hills with less wheel spinning, and less pedal to the metal?

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20 year owner of Libby CRD!
2006 LTD Bright Silver loaded with all the needed mods, CCV intact.
Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.

Okay want to run a trail? Got the perfect one in mind,and yes a IFS KJ can make it as my KJ made it through many times with IFS.

http://www.traildamage.com/trails/index.php?id=1

So what was your top speed when you did this, because you like to knock the speed of the CRD, would the CRD do the trail too slow? Or would it do it with more finesse?

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20 year owner of Libby CRD!
2006 LTD Bright Silver loaded with all the needed mods, CCV intact.
Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.

Thanks Bub, but I give up. People hate diesels over there because everybody says they should.

No matter how I debate or argue or get mad, no one will listen.

And why should we keep on bothering trying to convince others small diesel's are worth it while you cannot even buy one in the US. (American build)

Funny enough everybody drewls over the JEEP J8, shouting how bad they want one.

It has a 2.8CRD.....so I think they are all full of sawdust. To say something nice.

And this makes me giggle on how 'good' the 3.7 is:

JEEP:
3.7 L PowerTech V6
•Displacement:226.0 CID (3,701 cc)
•Power: 210 hp
•Torque: 235 ft·lbf

Nissan 370Z:

Q37VHR Variable Valve Timing NA V6
Displacement cu in (cc): 3.7 liters
Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 332 bhp
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 270 lb-ft.
....>>26 mpg

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Cherokee 2,5 CRD: sold - Wrangler TJ 2.5: gone - Touareg V10 TDI: new toy

Solo Liberty en Español: Jeepliberty.es

Notice nothing puts out as much power as diesel fuel per gallon.

http://www.mopar1973man.com//isx97/Othe ... %20BTU.jpg

http://forum.mopar1973man.com/showthrea ... #post16735

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20 year owner of Libby CRD!
2006 LTD Bright Silver loaded with all the needed mods, CCV intact.
Equipped with HDS thermostat, plenty of heat, faster warm-ups, increased fuel mileage.

My wife and I have owned 3.7 and CRD KJs both.. and I'm just sitting back and watching this thread. It's pretty funny.


Maintenance is a little cheaper and a little easier on the 3.7. The 3.7 also has a lighter "feel" to it...if you drive the 3.7 and then jump into the CRD you will instantly notice the difference in steering feel. No doubt about it this makes the 3.7 a little more nimble.

In EVERY other way, the CRD TROUNCES the 3.7. I could go on all day about how everything else about the CRD is better and more enjoyable to drive and more efficient and powerful and... well...everything.

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2005 Stone White KJ Limited CRD 4x4
Off-Road Pkg
Trac-Lok
Emu 790s/948s
Skyjacker H7088s rear/Bilsteins front
15x7 Black Rock Lobos/31x10.50 Firestones
GDE HOT Tune + TCM Tune
Euro TC
CB radio
Thrush Turbo muffler
AEM DryFlow filter

More costly to operate,more down time due to part avaibility,not reliable(IE breaks down more).Need I continue?

I had no idea the 3.7 had part availability issues.

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'05 Liberty CRD B100, SEGR - SOLD

'01 Beetle TDi B100, EGR delete
'83 Mercedes 240D B100, no EGR

--- SEGR Builder ---