Newly Purchased Flame Red CRD Engine Trouble Already

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:40 am

Good! Glad you lawyered up. I usually don't like lawyers, but on this case it is necessary. You have an open shut case as far as I can tell. I totally agree with his advice also, which is, leave the jeep where it is. Do not pick it up, do not pay for it, don't do anything. The selling dealer is completely responsible for this. Good luck! And keep us posted...

profdlp · **Posted:** Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:02 am

mrwaibel wrote:

Alright I have now had it with the crooked sales manager, my Jeep has been done since last Thursday and I can't get it until the bill has been paid and so far they have not payed anything on it and he has decided to go on a 2 week vaccation. Early this week I consulted a lawyer that is willing to look into my case and let me know what my legal options are. This was a very hard step to take as I have never had to use a lawyers services before.

You have been very reasonable about all of this. The truth is, reasonable people are generally hesitant to use a lawyer - they are used to being able to work things out through fair negotiation. It's not your fault that the other party was unwilling to do the same.

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Hes a local small town guy and fairly new to his practice and isnt afraid of doing small claims work to gain experience. He definitely feels like I am in the right on this and he already knows how rare the CRD Liberty is. As of now I have been advised to do nothing until he gets back with me on Monday.

A young guy (or gal) looking to make his mark is often a lot better than an old pro who figures he'll make a few bucks off of you, no matter the outcome. Some old-timers feel like if they win, fine. If they don't, it's at least a few more bucks in the bank.

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My ultimate goal here is to use my lawyer go right over the sales manager and get the dealership to pay the bill in full, after all the warranty papers say the dealership shall pay 100% of the parts and 100% of the labor within 30 day or 1,000 miles which ever comes first.

A lot of times, as soon as the other side opens a letter with a legal letterhead at the top they suddenly become remarkably willing to talk turkey. The fact that you have a lawyer doesn't necessarily mean that courts, etc., will be involved. It does show them that you mean business, though.

Quote:

They mention nothing about it being tied to how much commission they made on the sale or anything even close. After all the sales manager doesn't own the dealership so its not his money anyway.

So what if it was his money? You have been very fair. Had this problem occurred on Day 31 or at 1,001 miles you probably would have taken a deep breath and accepted your bad luck like a man. Let them do the same - even if it takes a little legal persuasion to get them to see it that way. A deal is a deal, and I'll bet they've had a few customers come back six weeks after they bought a car with a lot of problems and just waved the terms of the warranty in their face and told them tough luck. You are only insisting on getting what you paid for - nothing more.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:38 am

Well said, profdlp.

mrwaibel · **Joined:** Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:50 pm **Posts:** 43

Ok here is the latest, I talked with my lawyer today, he has reviewed the warranty thoroughly and said that I am definately in the right on this however I should try to settle on my own first before taking it through the legal system. He told me that if it were in my home county and local that we would have an easy case and would most likely win, however the county that I bought the vehicle from is Marion County Indiana which is the Capital of the state and he said that they would probably charge me possibly $500 court cost to take it to small claims court and it would take the better part of the day just to drive down there and back which is 105 miles each way. Also I would have a lesser chance of winning the case if the defendant had a good lawyer and claimed that they sold me a perfectly good running vehicle and that I was just complaining and trying to get them to pay for normal wear. I will let you know what he advised me to do as an alternative in a later post which will limit my loss and keep what I have to pay less than the legal fees would be and keep out of the legal system altogether, I just don't know for sure if its going to work yet.

profdlp · **Posted:** Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:13 pm

How much "normal wear" can take place in two short weeks? :wink:

"Normal wear" is when you take your tennis shoes back to the store after wearing them for three years and pointing out that the soles are worn. Or that your tires are nearly bald after 75,000 miles. "Normal wear" is not driving a car barely off the lot and having it go kaboom on you.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:29 am

profdlp wrote:

How much "normal wear" can take place in two short weeks? :wink:

"Normal wear" is when you take your tennis shoes back to the store after wearing them for three years and pointing out that the soles are worn. Or that your tires are nearly bald after 75,000 miles. "Normal wear" is not driving a car barely off the lot and having it go kaboom on you.

Exactly. This whole situation is not making a lot of sense. Bottom line. You are no liable or responsible. They know it. The lawyer knows it. You know it.

mrwaibel · **Joined:** Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:50 pm **Posts:** 43

here is what Iam currently up against the dealer that sold me the jeep is willing to pay 2/3 of the bill or $1,200 however you look at it, as he claims its all he has in the vehicle profit margin. He also claims that he didnot give the ok to order the expensive parts that he just authorized them to take it apart to see whats wrong for $800. On the other hand the dealer thats been contracted to do the service work that I was told to take it to has knocked several hundreds off of the bill that he calls shop profit, and parts commission which brings it down to $1,900 from the origional $2,300-$2,400 that it would have origionally been. Now this leaves a $700 gap that they both say that I am responsible for paying which is where my lawyer comes in handy. He suggests rather than me paying a bunch of money and going to court and trying to fight the dealerships big defense lawyers that I try a sneaky alternative that would most likely cost me very little to none when its all said and done. He suggests that I go ahead and send the dealer that done the work on my Jeep a check for $450 and pick the vehicle up as soon as the check clears. Now this leaves $250 of the $700 shortfall that the warranty is refusing to pay. My lawyer told me that the remaining $250 isnt worth them comming back after me to get and since the service dealer regularly services used cars for the dealer that sold me the jeep they can slowly get it back out of them by adding lets say $10 to their bill everytime until its eventually payed back to them. Now as for that $450 that Iam loosing my lawyer told me that I should write the total bill off as a loss since that Iam self employed and that it would most likely wash most of itself away in saving me taxes. By the way my lawyer isnt charging me anything to look into the case and he said that if we have to pursue litigation it may take as long as December or January before I could get it settled and have my vehicle so I just want this to be overwith.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:18 am

This still sounds like total BS! A warranty is a warranty period. Regardless of who is making what and how much it costs! Bottom line is this, you should not have to pay anything. Zero. Not one cent! I don't care if it's a wash if it's a small amount of money or anything, the bottom line is that you bought a vehicle with a warranty and the dealer is refusing to pay the entire warranty. If there was a deductible I would understand. You shouldn't have to resort to sneaky tricks or any other lawyer trickery to get this done. This whole thing is total crap! Do what you got to do, but if it were me, I sure as hell would not let this go. It's a matter of principle. With my business, I hear this crap all the time. People are always getting screwed by other people and they are left to pick up the pieces. That's simply not fair and not the way it should be.

Hexus · **Posted:** Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:00 am

I would tell them to fix the vehicle or give me back all of my money, period.

No negotiating, no deals, no payments, honor the warranty or buy it back for EXACTLY what I paid into it.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:37 am

I agree with Hexus.

arengant · **Posted:** Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:43 am

I have been following this...

I personally would eat the $450 and chalk it up to lesson learned, don't trust/buy from used dealers. In a few months you will forget about the chunk of change and have a nice Jeep you are enjoying.

Or you can have NO jeep in a few months and pay over $450 in legal fees with just a chance (a good chance, but still a chance) that the dealer could win this case and you would be out a lot.

Life is not fair, but like Racetracer pointed out... drawing out the process is not worth the money to some people.

I feel for your situation, and I hope this doesn't leave a bitter taste in your mouth for the CRD itself! Good luck!

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:58 am

If you do decide to pay anything... Don't forget the Vasolinr along with your checkbook...

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:33 pm

Pay with a credit card, then charge it back to the dealer. Use the warranty contract (You DO have one, right?) as your justification, send that to Visa so they can present it and fight it for you.

You will get your CRD back, and Visa will get your money back by taking it directly from the dealer's account. If they want to fight it, it will be against Visa who has all the money in the world for lawyers. Visa also takes the stand that the CUSTOMER is actually always right... Unlike what happens if you use cash, checks, or a pin number. ALWAYS SIGN AND RUN IT AS A CREDIT TRANSACTION.

No matter who issues your credit card (even if it is a check card from a bank) if it has the Visa or Mastercard logo on it... You have these purchase protections, and they will take the default position that YOU are in the right. The burden of proof is on the dealerships, and it normally is a fairly high bar for them to cross. With your warranty paperwork, I believe it will become insurmountable for them to prove to Visa that you should actually owe anything.

You will get your money back (provisionally) in about 36 hours after the transaction is finalized and you file the chargeback. After they rule in your favor, the provisional credit becomes permanent. In the unlikely event that they rule against you, you are still only out the same dollar amount. They cannot charge legal fees, penalties, we-don't-like-you fees... None of that. This is a risk free option, so why not go for it?

The amount (even the 450) is small enough that they probably won't bother anyway. I stuck the bad dealer in Jacksonville with over a $500 chargeback to get my CRD back after their "diagnostics" told me that the transmission was burnt up and the transfer case was just fine... When I TOLD THEM that the transmission had almost been actively ON FIRE. The invoice from another mechanic was all Visa needed to rule in my favor, but they told me that the dealership never even responded.

arengant · **Posted:** Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:06 pm

Interesting idea geordi, good plan IMHO!

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:31 pm

Geordi: That is the best idea I have heard yet. I forgot about that as an option. Had to do something similar myself years ago. Worked fine. The unfortunate part is that the dealer that did the work does not sound like the dealer that sold, and warrantied the vehicle. Not sure how that will work unless all proof and documentation is in place. Either way, The only one that is responsible and that HAS to LEGALLY pay ANYTHING is the selling dealer that warrantied the vehicle. I am beginning to sound like a broken record. I surely hope there is some Vasoline or KY available, as someone is going to need it in the end... and hopefully that is the selling dealer.

geordi · **Posted:** Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:33 pm

MRausch82 wrote:

Geordi: That is the best idea I have heard yet. I forgot about that as an option. Had to do something similar myself years ago. Worked fine. The unfortunate part is that the dealer that did the work does not sound like the dealer that sold, and warrantied the vehicle. Not sure how that will work unless all proof and documentation is in place. Either way, The only one that is responsible and that HAS to LEGALLY pay ANYTHING is the selling dealer that warrantied the vehicle. I am beginning to sound like a broken record. I surely hope there is some Vasoline or KY available, as someone is going to need it in the end... and hopefully that is the selling dealer.

I agree with your concerns, but here is the thing: when Visa staples the warranty contract to the repair dealer's bill (as they recover the cash)... The repair dealer now has both the legal evidence and the financial incentive to shove that contract up the selling dealer's arse.

Right now, they have a car to hold hostage as incentive to be paid. When you take that away from them, AND stick them with the bill too... They will suddenly be a lot more interested in getting the FULL amount from the selling dealer, profit lines included. If the selling dealer doesn't want to play ball... Well, they have more options than you do: they can refuse to service any of the selling dealer's vehicles. They can file small claims or full-on lawsuits...

None of which is your problem. You have the legal high ground, but they both view you as the small-and-insignificant individual. Unless you make them hurt financially AND have nothing further to hold over you (the lack of the car you paid for) then they will never care about your problems.

Better to make it entirely their problem.

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thermorex · **Posted:** Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:08 pm

Geordi, that's a great advice! All I see here as a problem is a little morality, you screw up the dealer that fixed the car and not the selling dealer. But at the end, they have more money and options than people like us... Again, great tip!

mrwaibel · **Joined:** Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:50 pm **Posts:** 43

I don't see the service dealer going after the selling dealer in court or anything like that. At best they will screw them little by little over time to make up for it and they would never notice. The service dealer has already told me twice that they do alot of service work for the selling dealer and have a good relationship with them so Iam sure they wouldn't want to mess that up over one bad experience. As for me right now I feel like Iam just a fly in their vasoline jar and when I buzz at them they just take their middle finger and push in the deep enough where they think I can't crawl back to the surface on my own. By the way I called Tom Obrien Chrysler again Friday and the service manager told me that he forgot all about my vehicle still being their after almost 2 weeks being done Iam not suprised at all. They sent a copy of the final bill to the selling dealers used car sales manager over a week ago when he was on vaccation and I didn't even have a copy of it yet so they emailed one to me Saturday and to my suprise they put the bill all in my name and I was the last one to see it.

MRausch82 · **Posted:** Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:42 pm

mrwaibel wrote:

I don't see the service dealer going after the selling dealer in court or anything like that. At best they will screw them little by little over time to make up for it and they would never notice. The service dealer has already told me twice that they do alot of service work for the selling dealer and have a good relationship with them so Iam sure they wouldn't want to mess that up over one bad experience. As for me right now I feel like Iam just a fly in their vasoline jar and when I buzz at them they just take their middle finger and push in the deep enough where they think I can't crawl back to the surface on my own. By the way I called Tom Obrien Chrysler again Friday and the service manager told me that he forgot all about my vehicle still being their after almost 2 weeks being done Iam not suprised at all. They sent a copy of the final bill to the selling dealers used car sales manager over a week ago when he was on vaccation and I didn't even have a copy of it yet so they emailed one to me Saturday and to my suprise they put the bill all in my name and I was the last one to see it.

This sounds like they are both trying to screw you...

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:29 am

How "nice" of them to put it entirely in your name, absolving the selling dealer of any responsibility.

Time to let the credit card fight it for you, using the warranty contract as the bludgeon to batter them with. I trust you don't plan to visit either of these dealers again anytime in the near future?

Newly Purchased Flame Red CRD Engine Trouble Already

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