Geordi's threads VS others?

flman · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:00 pm

Not to mention, our little 2.8 is a lot more cold blooded than a fuel wasting hemi, and I am sure the hemi has a much larger volume of coolant flowing through it than a peanut CRD engine. Did any one ever compare the size of the rad hoses on a hemi vs a 2.8?

Ceearedeedriver · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2016 8:44 pm **Posts:** 177

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:

Firstly, how are you measuring the valves, by the size of the port or by the size of the port the valve sits in or my the size of the valve discs themselves?

For the main valve I compared the seat diameters, I believe this is what you refer to as port. For the bypass I compared the disc. The OE housing seat is sized to this disc and given the disc is the exact same size on the Hemi I'm not sure what opportunity you would have to increase it in your design.

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:

Secondly, you trying to measure the stroke of a valve by placing them both in hot water together and observing the stoke visually is a false measurement, for three reasons...

1) You must have removed the valve from the O.E. assembly in order to properly measure it, and then to observe it stroke out in the hot water. Stroke of any thermostat valve that is spring-loaded into an assembly - where the housing acts as a frame for the valve - can only be accurately measured in that spring loaded condition. This does not apply to the Hemi valve because it has it's own frame.

Correct, but the upper half of the housing is the frame. With the OE thermostat element still installed in this frame you have the exact same setup as the Hemi thermostat and can make a direct one to one comparison. The housing doesn't need to be closed to do this.

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:

2) The valve you took out of the O.E. housing was likely a failed unit, and you are likely comparing it to a new Hemi valve. There are inaccuracies here as well.

3) The O.E. valve and the Hemi valve have two different opening temperatures. More inaccuracies.

Correct again but I don't think state of functionality or different operating temperature are relevant when measuring the extent of travel. We are simply measuring the physical bounds and the Hemi is physically more bounded than the OE thermostat, period. And because it's more bounded you must leave less clearance, or opening, on the bypass than the OE thermostat has. Because of this physical restriction your design is unable to provide any more clearance than a Hemi thermostat correctly positioned in the OE housing using any other implementation. At the end of the day you can make the bypass cavity and port out of the housing the size of a cathedral but you're still restricted by the valve seat diameter and how far it can open.

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:

One - 1 - Hemi thermostat valve is universally used in all versions and years of the Hemi V-8 gasoline engines, from 2003 to the present day. This valve controls temperature of an engine that produces anywhere from 375 horsepower to 707 horsepower, with similar figures for torque. With that kind of power comes serious heat, and serious demands on the cooling system. Do you REALLY think that a diesel engine producing less than 200 horsepower and less than 300 ft-lbs of torque uses a thermostat valve that is the same size, and flows a similar amount of coolant?!? Give your head a shake, Ceearedeedriver.

You keep repeating this but don't put any numbers on what our engine requires, what the OE housing can support or what your housing can support. Your whole argument is based around your speculation that the OE housing is too small. Sure, it might be but you provide zero evidence to support this. And sure you can throw around HP and torque numbers but it's pretty meaningless when comparing two very different systems and in the total absence of any understanding about the differences in these two systems e.g. efficiency or actual flow or actual cooling requirements.

No I don't think our engine requires the same cooling that the Hemi does but I never suggested it did. You are just twisting my words as usual. Just because the thermostat in the OE housing is capable of flowing more than the Hemi doesn't mean that it ever does under normal operating conditions. It is you that keeps telling us that our cooling system requires a larger thermostat housing because the OE one is too restrictive. But the fact that a broken OE thermostat does not allow the engine to reach design operating temperature confirms that the OE housing is indeed capable of providing more than enough coolant flow.

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:

I DID NOT SPEAK TO A SALES REPRESENTATIVE AT STANT CORPORATION, I CONSULTED WITH ONE OF THEIR ENGINEERS. You wonder why I am angry with members such as yourself; stop trying to change the story here.

So did you actually consult with him in a professional capacity, i.e. one where he takes payment for his services and ultimately signs off on your design or was this simply an off the record discussion? Hint - there is no way a professional engineer would provide a design or stamp your design without fully understanding the requirements of the system that it is going to be used in. Neither you or he are privy to this information.

TURBO-DIESEL-FREAK wrote:

I did not need to measure the cylinder head coolant flow, it is understood in engine design the you do not make the pinch point for coolant flow in either the block or the cylinder head.

So why did you ask it of NapaBavarian then?

BTW, I'm still waiting for you to provide a quote where I said that Sarge's mod is as good as your housing. You could at least have the decency to admit that I never said this.

jrsavoie · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:27 pm

lacabrera wrote:

I fully agree to locking the posts, it will and probably has already put others of from joining LJ. I know its not my place to get involved but I do feel that gordi has been profiteering on this forum for a considerable time. Not that I personally have an issue with that, but I would imagine some members would. In return he has contributed to the forum considerably, not necessarily correctly every time but than we are all human.

Yep, Geordi provides a valuable service to all he deals with. He is definitely an asset to the community. I only come here to look for info.

The whole site is a wealth of info and needs to be kept going. People need to spend less time bickering about nothing and more time helping each other out.

taroo · **Joined:** Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:14 pm **Posts:** 292

jrsavoie wrote:

lacabrera wrote:

I fully agree to locking the posts, it will and probably has already put others of from joining LJ. I know its not my place to get involved but I do feel that gordi has been profiteering on this forum for a considerable time. Not that I personally have an issue with that, but I would imagine some members would. In return he has contributed to the forum considerably, not necessarily correctly every time but than we are all human.

Yep, Geordi provides a valuable service to all he deals with. He is definitely an asset to the community. I only come here to look for info.

The whole site is a wealth of info and needs to be kept going. People need to spend less time bickering about nothing and more time helping each other out.

It is not like me to weigh in but I will....

Geordi has been a HUGE asset to this board and does excellent work for a fair price when he works for a fee. We all have opinions and should all be smart enough to read the spectrum of inputs and make our own decision as to how we want to proceed with our CRDs. No one is forcing anyone to listen or take the input of one person over another.

When I have a problem I come to the board and many times Geordi is a huge contributing source to my answer. I, again, read what all parties say and make my own path forward.

I love this board...let's stay on topic of making our CRDs run as well as possible for as long as possible!!!!

cevans · **Joined:** Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:48 pm **Posts:** 278

olypopper wrote:

Why do I see moderators locking up threads about Geordi's dealings with other customers? Why is Hot Diesel Solutions no longer a vendor?.........why didn't moderators lock up threads about Jeff Bauer's products when they were attacked by people that don't own the product?

Since the mods on this site seem to run interference for Geordi I have to wonder why? Any mods want to comment and defend your position(s)?

This is a ridiculous thread that is being spearheaded by people that have some axe to grind with Geordi, including yourself olypopper. I'm sorry if your feelings got hurt at some point, but this is just immature.

There is a difference between discussing and attacking, and if you don't know the difference than I can't help you. Posting a negative review and giving a timeline of what went wrong is one thing, that helps the group protect themselves in the future. Posting a factually questionable, emotionally driven attack on someone is something else entirely. Attacking and blaming someone for your OWN problems is not helpful to this group. Hiring Geordi is different than bringing your car to a shop - you knew this going in, don't complain about it after the fact. Nobody is forcing you you to hire Geordi to do your belt job.

Questions that were asked of Jeff's thermostat and Hot Diesel Solutions were often legitimate, actual questions. If vendors cannot survive questions, they shouldn't be in this business. I'm attacked and questioned daily, but that is part of being in business. You need to learn to not take things personally, and spend way less time defending yourself on Facebook to anyone who ever said anything critical of you. I've spoken with Jeff for hours, he's a great guy, but I'll be the first to tell him he is overly sensitive.

As for Geordi - does he get special treatment? Yes, he does, and he has earned it. No one else has done a fraction of the belt jobs he has done. I don't care if you like him or not, he knows more than you about this motor because he has done more with it. Geordi gets paid for the work he does, but he doesn't get paid for the time he spends answering questions on the forum. People need to be paid for their work, and paid fairly, but no one is forcing Geordi to give his own time and help forum members with questions.

I don't see the value of the head bolt thread, and I haven't seen the same valve issues as he has. Nevertheless, Geordi hasn't attacked me for disagreeing with his logic on those threads. That shows maturity, unlike others who do attack when people ask questions.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:02 pm

cevans wrote:

As for Geordi - does he get special treatment? Yes, he does, and he has earned it. No one else has done a fraction of the belt jobs he has done. I don't care if you like him or not, he knows more than you about this motor because he has done more with it. Geordi gets paid for the work he does, but he doesn't get paid for the time he spends answering questions on the forum. People need to be paid for their work, and paid fairly, but no one is forcing Geordi to give his own time and help forum members with questions.

Why again?

Oh because he's personally trashed more CRD's then most of you will ever own in your lifetime?

Sorry but with his track record with vehicles in general I wouldn't let him within 1000 miles of a lawn mower let alone one of my vehicles.He also refuses to read the owners manual and flat out said 5 of us lied that when flat towing a 4wd KJ with a auto trans the trans need to be in "P" and t-case in "N" after he melted a trans/t-case in his even after flat out saying he knows how to tow and what the owners manual and us stated was wrong and it was a defect with all Chrysler vehicles.

I'm also pretty sure he's trashed 3 or 4 engines of his own.

Sorry no one deserves anything with that track record.

And let him post I'm a troll again,it will come.

blk05liberty · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:33 pm

I like my OEM thermostat! Works great!!

flman · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:48 pm

blk05liberty wrote:

I like my OEM thermostat! Works great!!

You must be the only one, because the consensus for over 10 years was the CRD tstat sucks. :roll:

PZKW108 · **Joined:** Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:23 pm **Posts:** 461

As for Geordi - does he get special treatment? Yes, he does, and he has earned it. No one else has done a fraction of the belt jobs he has done. I don't care if you like him or not, he knows more than you about this motor because he has done more with it. Geordi gets paid for the work he does, but he doesn't get paid for the time he spends answering questions on the forum. People need to be paid for their work, and paid fairly, but no one is forcing Geordi to give his own time and help forum members with questions.

Geordi does get paid for the time he spends answering question on the forum, that's advetisment for he's business of course he pay a vendor fee ( maybe........) but he would never get any other way to bring him jobs like this forum.

thermorex · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:29 pm

Jeff's thermostat is a masterpiece. I will say it again and again! Lots of options for adding temperature probes and different thermostats for different temperatures. Great is not enough said. I like when people think things through. It shows creativity and practicability. It's expensive, but if you want the Rolls Royce of the thermostats, you pay the money. I wish Jeff would have one for the v6 3.0 vm crd, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

Geordie seems to be a very skilled individual and a fast learner. His opinions, most of them, have been very useful from an informational point of view for the whole forum. I don't believe he really understands the fine details of engineering (neither do I to be honest because I am a software guy and not an engineer) and maybe some work he has done not so well was because of the "comfort zone" caused by the routine. Overall, I appreciate positively his forum contribution.

My conclusion is that bashing publicly on a forum is not ok. If Geordie did anything wrong that cannot be resolved amicably, that should be taken to a court and let a judge sort it out, not the forum.

WWDiesel · **Posted:** Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:20 pm

I have purposely stayed out of this discussion, trying to stick to the high ground if possible, but I will add a short thought for consideration after days of reading this back and forth between some posters!
No one forces anyone to purchase one of Jeff's thermostats nor to hire Geordi to do a timing belt or any other job; life it about choices, try and make the best ones and move on....
We all learn from our choices, be it good or bad!!!
Beating each other up on this forum serves no one any worthwhile purpose and really makes the forum look somewhat foolish!!!
nuf said! :2cents:

olypopper · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:28 am

cevans wrote:

olypopper wrote:

Why do I see moderators locking up threads about Geordi's dealings with other customers? Why is Hot Diesel Solutions no longer a vendor?.........why didn't moderators lock up threads about Jeff Bauer's products when they were attacked by people that don't own the product?

Since the mods on this site seem to run interference for Geordi I have to wonder why? Any mods want to comment and defend your position(s)?

This is a ridiculous thread that is being spearheaded by people that have some axe to grind with Geordi, including yourself olypopper. I'm sorry if your feelings got hurt at some point, but this is just immature.

There is a difference between discussing and attacking, and if you don't know the difference than I can't help you. Posting a negative review and giving a timeline of what went wrong is one thing, that helps the group protect themselves in the future. Posting a factually questionable, emotionally driven attack on someone is something else entirely. Attacking and blaming someone for your OWN problems is not helpful to this group. Hiring Geordi is different than bringing your car to a shop - you knew this going in, don't complain about it after the fact. Nobody is forcing you you to hire Geordi to do your belt job.

Questions that were asked of Jeff's thermostat and Hot Diesel Solutions were often legitimate, actual questions. If vendors cannot survive questions, they shouldn't be in this business. I'm attacked and questioned daily, but that is part of being in business. You need to learn to not take things personally, and spend way less time defending yourself on Facebook to anyone who ever said anything critical of you. I've spoken with Jeff for hours, he's a great guy, but I'll be the first to tell him he is overly sensitive.

As for Geordi - does he get special treatment? Yes, he does, and he has earned it. No one else has done a fraction of the belt jobs he has done. I don't care if you like him or not, he knows more than you about this motor because he has done more with it. Geordi gets paid for the work he does, but he doesn't get paid for the time he spends answering questions on the forum. People need to be paid for their work, and paid fairly, but no one is forcing Geordi to give his own time and help forum members with questions.

I don't see the value of the head bolt thread, and I haven't seen the same valve issues as he has. Nevertheless, Geordi hasn't attacked me for disagreeing with his logic on those threads. That shows maturity, unlike others who do attack when people ask questions.

Like I said before, I've had no business dealings with Geordi as I'm a competent wrench and dont need his services. My point of this thread is to show how chicken-$hlt the moderators are and that they are simply playing favorites. No doubt Geordi devotes a lot of free help on this forum but that's not in question. I see absolute favoritism here and it's BS.

I still thinks it's funny that the only people bashing Jeffs thermostat are cheap skates anyway.

Cevans, am I reading correctly that you are a sales rep at IDparts.com? What's your reasoning for such vitriol hatred for Jeffs product and the love for Geordi?

flman · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:20 am

olypopper wrote:

Cevans, am I reading correctly that you are a sales rep at IDparts.com? What's your reasoning for such vitriol hatred for Jeffs product and the love for Geordi?

I agree, threads like these are the no zone for vendors, I am surprised cevans put any input here as well?

Ceearedeedriver · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2016 8:44 pm **Posts:** 177

flman wrote:

olypopper wrote:

Cevans, am I reading correctly that you are a sales rep at IDparts.com? What's your reasoning for such vitriol hatred for Jeffs product and the love for Geordi?

I agree, threads like these are the no zone for vendors, I am surprised cevans put any input here as well?

Yeah, I was totally taken aback by that response from Corey.

....but really olypopper :roll:

I had to go back and read Corey's posting carefully again and at no place does he even come close to suggesting that he has a hate, or even mild dislike, for Jeff's product. Heck, he doesn't even mention Jeff's product so I don't know where you managed to spin that one from. He did, however, say "I've spoken with Jeff for hours, he's a great guy".

olypopper, this is exactly the sort of twisting that Jeff himself does to others' responses to make out that they've said something that they haven't in order to support his own agenda. You've clearly learned from the master :ROTFL:

.

olypopper · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:28 pm

Ceearedeedriver wrote:

flman wrote:

olypopper wrote:

Cevans, am I reading correctly that you are a sales rep at IDparts.com? What's your reasoning for such vitriol hatred for Jeffs product and the love for Geordi?

I agree, threads like these are the no zone for vendors, I am surprised cevans put any input here as well?

Yeah, I was totally taken aback by that response from Corey.

....but really olypopper :roll:

I had to go back and read Corey's posting carefully again and at no place does he even come close to suggesting that he has a hate, or even mild dislike, for Jeff's product. Heck, he doesn't even mention Jeff's product so I don't know where you managed to spin that one from. He did, however, say "I've spoken with Jeff for hours, he's a great guy".

olypopper, this is exactly the sort of twisting that Jeff himself does to others' responses to make out that they've said something that they haven't in order to support his own agenda. You've clearly learned from the master :ROTFL:

.

Learned from the master, huh? I've purchased his product and probably have a total of 15 minutes of communication with the man. If that's learning from the master, so be it. Do you not find it odd that now even vendors are attacking Jeff's product? Maybe they are afraid of losing OEM tstat sales (a real money maker for the repeat business but that's for another thread).

I still do not understand the lack of response from moderators (this thread was directed at them and not intended to take the turn it did) about running interference for one vendor and not for another. Doesn't make sense.

blk05liberty · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:35 pm

flman wrote:

blk05liberty wrote:

I like my OEM thermostat! Works great!!

You must be the only one, because the consensus for over 10 years was the CRD tstat sucks. :roll:

Yep! Guess I'm lucky! Well worth it lol :lol:

cevans · **Joined:** Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:48 pm **Posts:** 278

tjkj2002 wrote:

Oh because he's personally trashed more CRD's then most of you will ever own in your lifetime?

I am not aware of a line of trashed engines, but I am aware of literally hundreds of timing belt jobs he has done successfully. I'm also keenly aware of the condition most CRDs are in before Geordi gets to them. That being said, I think it is totally fair to point out when anyone is wrong. That towing thing was obviously incorrect.

cevans · **Joined:** Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:48 pm **Posts:** 278

olypopper wrote:

Learned from the master, huh? I've purchased his product and probably have a total of 15 minutes of communication with the man. If that's learning from the master, so be it. Do you not find it odd that now even vendors are attacking Jeff's product? Maybe they are afraid of losing OEM tstat sales (a real money maker for the repeat business but that's for another thread).

olypopper - I STRONGLY invite you to READ, and read slowly, what people are saying. You are all over the place, and you are seeing ghosts.

I have talked with Jeff countless times. He calls me, we talk, I ask him how things are going, I've offered advice whenever I could. Good conversations. I recommend customers to his product. His product is nothing less than a work of art. However, as I said above, he his overly-sensitive to criticism - especially over price. IMO his product speaks for itself and doesn't need defending, but, Jeff gets into forum and Facebook arguments all the time. I think a lot of those are people baiting him at this point.

Quote:

I still do not understand the lack of response from moderators (this thread was directed at them and not intended to take the turn it did) about running interference for one vendor and not for another. Doesn't make sense.

It does make sense. You are not being honest to the community or the moderators. You did not open this thread with the genuine intention of improving the conversation. You have a cross to burn and you are trying to bait the moderators into a conflict with you. This isn't productive.

If I were to make a suggestion, we could start a "Geordi Feedback Thread" - I see these all over the internet. This would give a space for people to post their feedback, both positive and negative.

cevans · **Joined:** Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:48 pm **Posts:** 278

flman wrote:

I agree, threads like these are the no zone for vendors, I am surprised cevans put any input here as well?

Yeah, I wasn't comfortable doing it. I've seen a *LOT* of tight enthusiast communities be split apart by these types of things. The CRD community is so small we can't afford to have a schism. These arguments always come down to egos and past history and the community suffers. I want to be a good resource for the group - and I spend most of the day on the phone with CRD owners, which keeps me away from the forum most of the time - and in this instance I thought my usefulness would be to come to the defense of a valuable member of the community.

Ceearedeedriver · **Joined:** Fri May 06, 2016 8:44 pm **Posts:** 177

olypopper wrote:

Do you not find it odd that now even vendors are attacking Jeff's product? Maybe they are afraid of losing OEM tstat sales (a real money maker for the repeat business but that's for another thread).

Geordi and Jeff have not seen eye to eye for a long time, possibly never, but I completely fail to see where any other vendors are attacking Jeff's product. Maybe you can point this out to us. You specifically made the statement that Corey has a "vitriol hatred for Jeffs product" a few posts back. Please show us where you got this from.

blk05liberty wrote:

flman wrote:

blk05liberty wrote:

I like my OEM thermostat! Works great!!

You must be the only one, because the consensus for over 10 years was the CRD tstat sucks. :roll:

Yep! Guess I'm lucky! Well worth it lol :lol:

Nah, I wouldn't consider it luck. Admittedly, the life expectancy of the OE thermostat is somewhat disappointing but when working properly it does, without exception, maintain the engine temperature at the level determined by the engineers at VM and Chrysler to be the correct operating temperature for this engine.

Consider this, how many replacement thermostats are sold worldwide. How many are Mopar originals?, how many Crown?, how many are HDS and how many others e.g. DIY mods and inline. My guess would be that Jeffs percentage is in the low single digits and Mopar up in the 60's-80's. Now, that tells us where the consensus really is.

Geordi's threads VS others?

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