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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:34 pm 
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Here is a couple EPA charts on Particulate Emissions.
Now you have made some calculations that will be submitted to Congress for possible legislation.
If CARB had any DATA input used to compile the chart, and based upon them getting caught committing fraud, would you stick your neck out Under Penalty of Perjury and trust the data??
Image

Does anyone not understand why data can not be just cooked up?
Note, Road Dust is the big one.

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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 10:59 pm 
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What is your specific charge of fraud against CARB? That it over-estimated the amount of construction-related pollution because of flawed calculation methods? That those who devised the flawed methods did so knowingly and for their personal gain? If so, what proof do you have?


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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 6:25 am 
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Here you go, Kill CARB.org has compiled the information and is helping expose CARB and their arrogant narcissists for what they are, an out of control agency with corrupting power.

http://killcarb.org/2010101305-attack.html

CARB used false data, lied and does not defend themselves. Hein Tran has a Fake PHD, yet he is still on the staff, he should be rotting in prison. Mary Nichols and her cronies covered up the false data. They make the Chicago Political Machine look like Boy Scouts. I guess there is one philosophy that is shared by Terrorists and so called Environmental Activists, the end justifies the means.
The methods used for measuring compounds such as Particulates and NOX are well established and accepted. Those who do the measurements are expected to follow the procedure and factually report the data, weather they like the outcome or not. Political agendas and Egos need to be set aside, when they are not the data is corrupt.
Let me use the analogy: Someone kills another with a well documented premeditated motive and does not want it called murder to avoid the death penalty. Like CARB the murderer does not deny or provide any evidence he/she killed the other person. Looks like the offender is Guilty.

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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:13 pm 
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Who is funding the anonymous KillCARB website?
http://www.cioma.com/public/info/contactus.html

So why hasn't anyone been charged with fraud by prosecutors? They prosecutors must certainly be in collusion with UCLA and CARB since they are all bureaucrats and pinheads.


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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:19 pm 
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Wobbly wrote:
Who is funding the anonymous KillCARB website?
http://www.cioma.com/public/info/contactus.html

how did you make that connection?


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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 12:50 pm 
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If you go to this page:
http://www.cioma.com/govrel.html

At the bottom is a link to:
http://drivecleanca.org/

But no visible connections to KillCARB.

Having grown up in SoCal, I appreciate what CARB did throughout the 80's and 90's to improve
air quality. But as a long time hot-rodder and performance-modder, CARB made my ambitions
difficult to acheive.

Which is another reason I like Florida. :SOMBRERO:

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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:11 pm 
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Quote:
On what criteria do you base your allegation of hypocrisy?
Please be specific



How about this:
If CARB laws applied to the entire US, you wouldn't own a CRD. They were not allowed to sell new CRD's in Cal,NY and any other state that follows CARB's rules. They didn't meet CARB emission laws.
Hypocrisy= you defending CARB and their laws while driving the very vehicle they deemed too damaging to the environment to sell.

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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:09 pm 
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A recent article in CarCraft shows how http://www.semasan.com has done a great job of
working with state legislatures in keeping classic car owners, hot-rodders, and weekend racers happy.

Unfortuantly, diesel owners are not well represented.

Diesels fall into the category of industry and big (and small) buisness.

And while truckers are being hit pretty hard with these new emissions regulations, somehow
the 2-stroke 4300 HP diesels depicted here are found to be acceptable.
http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/sd70ace.jsp
http://www.emdiesels.com/emdweb/products/powerproducts/pp_index.html

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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:09 pm 
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onthehunt wrote:
Quote:
On what criteria do you base your allegation of hypocrisy?
Please be specific



How about this:
If CARB laws applied to the entire US, you wouldn't own a CRD. They were not allowed to sell new CRD's in Cal,NY and any other state that follows CARB's rules. They didn't meet CARB emission laws.
Hypocrisy= you defending CARB and their laws while driving the very vehicle they deemed too damaging to the environment to sell.


X2, and those pecker heads caused me to buy my new 06 CRD out of NY state, and register it in CT. for a year. What a bunch of Douche bags those CARB people and their supporters are. :furious:

I wonder how much revenue the CARB states of CA and NY have lost due to diesel car sales made out of state? :juggle:

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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:50 pm 
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dieseldoesit wrote:
Wobbly wrote:
Who is funding the anonymous KillCARB website?
http://www.cioma.com/public/info/contactus.html

how did you make that connection?


There is a connection, but since Killcarb.org is completely secret my allegation of funding source is merely a guess, and I retract it. Here's some information on the link between Killcarb and CIAMO:

"If you google CARB Awareness Group you find the origin site killcarb.org (Don't confuse it with killcarb.com which is diet site} You find this http://killcarb.org/2010010601-adhocgroup2carb.html
This also has no contact or management information and is" Dedicated to Putting an End to a Rogue State Agency"

However if you google the contact information (CIAMO) from the open letter they ask people to sign and send in you go to this http://www.cioma.com/public/info/contactus.html which is the lobby site for the California Independent Oil Marketers Association, an oil industry lobby group.

There's nothing illegal about what they are doing but I think you should know that you are using that information as a fact resource that is compiled and distributed by professional oil industry lobbyists. It makes me wonder why they don't include that information on the newsletter that you promoted on you're site. They really don't have anything to hide by saying "This information was compiled by oil industry researchers and paid for by our members" At least we'd know the source of the information."
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/re ... d25caa970b


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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 4:59 pm 
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flman wrote:
What a bunch of Douche bags those CARB people and their supporters are.


Apparently the list rules about abusive language don't apply to you.


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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:18 pm 
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onthehunt wrote:
Quote:
On what criteria do you base your allegation of hypocrisy?
Please be specific



How about this:
If CARB laws applied to the entire US, you wouldn't own a CRD. They were not allowed to sell new CRD's in Cal,NY and any other state that follows CARB's rules. They didn't meet CARB emission laws.
Hypocrisy= you defending CARB and their laws while driving the very vehicle they deemed too damaging to the environment to sell.




CARB deemed some diesels to be damaging to the CALIFORNIA environment based on factors such as population density and air basin geography. The state in which I live did not not make the same determination. CARB did not force other states to follow its regulations. They are free to choose either CARB's or the EPA's regulations.

Since I'm not advocating that CARB standards be applied in my state, (because the demographic and geographic factors are different) where is the hypocrisy?


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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:28 pm 
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Wobbly wrote:
flman wrote:
What a bunch of Douche bags those CARB people and their supporters are.


Apparently the list rules about abusive language don't apply to you.


I never knew people with a common cause to own a diesel in a so called free country would care about CARB and their supporters. I can bet Old Navy does not care for CARB. He is the founder of the forum. We all like diesels and hate CARB here right? Other wise, why would we be here unless the CARB supporters are just trolls? You don't support CARB now do you?

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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:33 pm 
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flman wrote:
Wobbly wrote:
flman wrote:
What a bunch of Douche bags those CARB people and their supporters are.


Apparently the list rules about abusive language don't apply to you.


I never knew people with a common cause to own a diesel in a so called free country would care about CARB and their supporters. I can bet Old Navy does not care for CARB. He is the founder of the forum. We all like diesels and hate CARB here right? Other wise, why would we be here unless the CARB supporters are just trolls? You don't support CARB now do you?


If you don't like the air pollution standards of NY, why don't you do something about them, instead of whining about CARB. What CARB does in California effects the health of Californians. It's the height of egocentricity to think that the health decisions of Californians should be based on whether you can buy a diesel in NY or not.


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 Post subject: Troll Spray
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 7:03 am 
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Troll Spray, I just dumped 2 of the planeteers into the troll box. The captain has been quiet, so I spared him. 1 Click on the trolls profile, 2 click add foe 3 No more troll posts :BANANA:

And if enough users block these trolls, they wont even be able to ask for help with CRD problems, maybe they will just go away and buy a Prius since that is a better suited vehicle to Communists any ways.

Bye bye trolls.

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 Post subject: Re: Troll Spray
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:16 am 
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flman wrote:
Troll Spray, I just dumped 2 of the planeteers into the troll box. The captain has been quiet, so I spared him. 1 Click on the trolls profile, 2 click add foe 3 No more troll posts :BANANA:

And if enough users block these trolls, they wont even be able to ask for help with CRD problems, maybe they will just go away and buy a Prius since that is a better suited vehicle to Communists any ways.

Bye bye trolls.


Anyone who doesn't join in the right-wing circle jerk must be a Commie. California's air pollution standards should be determined by the anonymous financial interests behind the KillCARB propaganda campaign. Because of their ideological wisdom, non-residents like FLMAN and Warped are better qualified to set the air pollution levels for Californians than are the scientists and bureaucrats who live in 'fruits and nuts' land.

It is comforting to know that modern day Herbert Philbricks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Led_Three_Lives can now easily bust the Commie cells by merely tailing Prius drivers to their nefarious rendezvous in deserted warehouses.


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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:56 am 
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CARB deemed some diesels to be damaging to the CALIFORNIA environment based on factors such as population density and air basin geography.


Following your logic it would be safe to assume that the chemicals I use here at work that are labled" This product contains a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer" are safe for me to use because I live in Wisconsin?

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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:10 am 
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onthehunt wrote:
Quote:
CARB deemed some diesels to be damaging to the CALIFORNIA environment based on factors such as population density and air basin geography.


Following your logic it would be safe to assume that the chemicals I use here at work that are labled" This product contains a chemical known to the state of California to cause cancer" are safe for me to use because I live in Wisconsin?


I think the problem is worse in California because in parts where there are air basins or mountain ranges, the air is not exchanged as fast as say, flat Illinois. Most large metropolitan areas that have mountains close by have these problems. The stagnant and polluted air does not move east and disperse (dilution is the solution..). I think Mexico City, LA, and SLC have these problems.
I guess it would be similar to an inversion? Where it is colder and cloudy down in the valley's but warm and sunny up in the mountains? I think that during inversions, the air is not as clean in the valleys as it normally is.

Some thoughts to consider.

From Salt Lake City Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salt_Lake_City

Quote:
During mid-winter, strong areas of high pressure often situate themselves over the Great Basin, leading to strong temperature inversions. This causes air stagnation and thick smog in the valley for several days to weeks at a time and can result in the worst air-pollution levels in the U.S., reducing air quality to unhealthy levels.[43][44]


From Los Angeles Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles#Environmental_issues

Quote:
The name given by the Chumash tribe of Native Americans for the area now known as Los Angeles translates to "the valley of smoke"[47] because of the smog from native campfires. Owing to geography, heavy reliance on automobiles, and the Los Angeles/Long Beach port complex, Los Angeles suffers from air pollution in the form of smog. The Los Angeles Basin and the San Fernando Valley are susceptible to atmospheric inversion, which holds in the exhausts from road vehicles, airplanes, locomotives, shipping, manufacturing, and other sources.[48] Unlike other large cities that rely on rain to clear smog, Los Angeles gets only 15 inches (381.00 mm) of rain each year: pollution accumulates over many consecutive days. Issues of air quality in Los Angeles and other major cities led to the passage of early national environmental legislation, including the Clean Air Act. More recently, the state of California has led the nation in working to limit pollution by mandating low emission vehicles. Smog levels are only high during summers because it is dry and warm. In the winter, storms help to clear the smog and it is not as much of a problem. Smog should continue to drop in the coming years due to aggressive steps to reduce it, electric and hybrid cars, improvements in mass transit, and other pollution reducing measures.[49]

As a result, pollution levels have dropped in recent decades. The number of Stage 1 smog alerts has declined from over 100 per year in the 1970s to almost zero in the new millennium. Despite improvement, the 2006 and 2007 annual reports of the American Lung Association ranked the city as the most polluted in the country with short-term particle pollution and year-round particle pollution.[50][51] In 2008, the city was ranked the second most polluted and again had the highest year-round particulate pollution.[52] In addition, the groundwater is increasingly threatened by MTBE from gas stations and perchlorate from rocket fuel. With pollution still a significant problem, the city continues to take aggressive steps to improve air and water conditions.[53][54]


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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:19 am 
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The fact is the CRD pollutes more than your average car. No matter what state you live in.
I'm done with this thread. A pm enlightened me. Made me see red.

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 Post subject: Re: CARB busted
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:30 am 
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What is the problem?
This is just another government agency to make up numbers to be able to make this a better world that they control. There are thousands and thousands of them, all working to gain control to make this a better place to live.
Bureaucracies crave control, when they have control the society collapses. Been this way since Egyptian, Greek, Central American civilizations, well, since we have evidence.
This USA is just entering the collapse, so hey, enjoy it, we have a long way to go down, it is going to be fun.
Don't worry, be happy, go to the Pot dispensary and maybe they will have Soma in by now. It is a Brave New World.

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