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I have a shuddering tranny and the dealer can't repro...
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10299		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Vox Fatalis [ Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  I have a shuddering tranny and the dealer can't repro...
So... you guys who've dealt with the shuddery transmissions while cruising at speeds over 50MPH... what's the best way to help these folks get a solid repro?

I'm not getting CEL over it, but I am getting the shudder pretty badly. Extra pronounced to the point of maddening when the Predator is installed. I tend to be able to repro it (with or without the Predator) by simply accelerating a bit agressively and then maintaining speed at 55-75 MPH.

Can anyone offer up another way to solidly reproduce this issue? It happens to me all the time, so I'm not sure why they claim it's not happening.

And my brakes howl. They claim they can't repro that either. WTF? They were so NICE when I took it to them the first time. What's up with the sudden incompetence, I wonder... :roll:

Oh yeah, and I hear a rapping noise that has nothing to do with it being a diesel when I'm in gear with the brakes on under the Jeep, which was the final straw for me to take it in.

Any suggestions for the dealer are much appreciated!
Author:  Ranger1 [ Mon Jul 10, 2006 7:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Can anyone offer up another way to solidly reproduce this issue? It happens to me all the time, so I'm not sure why they claim it's not happening.


If you can convince them to ride with you while you make it happen, it might help. I suspect they don't want their techs losing money by identifying an issue without a TSB or RRT that is a known fix. While its under warranty, they get paid from DCX, so you might have to wait for them to resolve it. Or you can do what some on this forum have done and install a Transgo shift kit - from what I've read here that seems to fix the shuddering issue.
Author:  gd5092 [ Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Try this,

From a stop give it close to max power, then slow as you get to 50-55 and stay at 55, see if it will shudder for 15/20 seconds.

-G
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Have you had both transmission TSB's done? I have and seldom get the shudder.
Author:  Vox Fatalis [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Cowcatcher wrote:
Have you had both transmission TSB's done? I have and seldom get the shudder.


At this point, they are refusing to do anything about it. I need to prove the issue repros.
Author:  Vox Fatalis [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:29 am ]
Post subject: 
Ranger1 wrote:
Quote:
Can anyone offer up another way to solidly reproduce this issue? It happens to me all the time, so I'm not sure why they claim it's not happening.


If you can convince them to ride with you while you make it happen, it might help. I suspect they don't want their techs losing money by identifying an issue without a TSB or RRT that is a known fix. While its under warranty, they get paid from DCX, so you might have to wait for them to resolve it. Or you can do what some on this forum have done and install a Transgo shift kit - from what I've read here that seems to fix the shuddering issue.


I'll have to check that shift kit out, thanks. Only concern is that will void my warranty.
Author:  Vox Fatalis [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:30 am ]
Post subject: 
gd5092 wrote:
Try this,

From a stop give it close to max power, then slow as you get to 50-55 and stay at 55, see if it will shudder for 15/20 seconds.

-G


Thanks, I'll try that. That's pretty much what I told them to do anyway. Accelerate hard then taper off to a cruising speed.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:20 am ]
Post subject: 
Vox Fatalis wrote:
Cowcatcher wrote:
Have you had both transmission TSB's done? I have and seldom get the shudder.


At this point, they are refusing to do anything about it. I need to prove the issue repros.


If you are planning a trip east I will introduce you to my dealer.
Author:  chrismc [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
That's odd. It only takes them a couple minutes to do a "QuickLearn" on the transmission. I took mine in for the shudder problem, and they drove it, found that the transmission was screwy (they also found a "hard 3-4 shift"), and reprogrammed it in about 30 minutes total. I checked my build date and tranny serial number against all known TSB's, and it didn't match any (too new). I had the problem and they fixed it, however. The shudder is gone, but now the 4-5 shift is much more pronounced (I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to call it "hard", but its *almost* bothersome).
Author:  RFCRD [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
chrismc wrote:
That's odd. It only takes them a couple minutes to do a "QuickLearn" on the transmission. I took mine in for the shudder problem, and they drove it, found that the transmission was screwy (they also found a "hard 3-4 shift"), and reprogrammed it in about 30 minutes total. I checked my build date and tranny serial number against all known TSB's, and it didn't match any (too new). I had the problem and they fixed it, however. The shudder is gone, but now the 4-5 shift is much more pronounced (I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to call it "hard", but its *almost* bothersome).

What you describe as a hard shift is actually a lock-up and is a software issue. The DC tech support rep I met with a few weeks ago said they are very aware of the problem and have a new software release coming soon to address the issue. The problem is embedded in the software logic in TSB 18-009-06 or 18-008-06 (whichever applies to your model year) that controls the torque converter lock-up clutch. This could happen in 3rd, 4th, or 5th gear depending on when you stop accelerating. Mine is most noticable in 3rd (35 mph) but also get a hard thump in 5th at times. They are trying to achieve an "early" torque converter lock-up to maximize fuel economy and durability of the clutch. They asked for paitence, a fix is coming.
Author:  onthehunt [ Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
I had the same shudder issue. They replaced the pcm and it was gone. The trans shifted better, my mpg went up slightly,but it still has that hard 35mph shift unless your on it.
Author:  Vox Fatalis [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:34 am ]
Post subject: 
onthehunt wrote:
I had the same shudder issue. They replaced the pcm and it was gone. The trans shifted better, my mpg went up slightly,but it still has that hard 35mph shift unless your on it.


I did a drive with a tech today and explained the the situation. The Jeep shifted really hard a time or two, and did one shudder, but didn't do it as bad as it does on occasion with my commute. But it was enough for the tech to agree the TSB was necessary. So back to the dealership tomorrow... yay... NOT. At least the work will finally get done. :: knock on wood ::
Author:  RFCRD [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:26 am ]
Post subject: 
Vox Fatalis wrote:
onthehunt wrote:
I had the same shudder issue. They replaced the pcm and it was gone. The trans shifted better, my mpg went up slightly,but it still has that hard 35mph shift unless your on it.


I did a drive with a tech today and explained the the situation. The Jeep shifted really hard a time or two, and did one shudder, but didn't do it as bad as it does on occasion with my commute. But it was enough for the tech to agree the TSB was necessary. So back to the dealership tomorrow... yay... NOT. At least the work will finally get done. :: knock on wood ::

What TSB are you trying to get done? The software update is not their choice (18-009-06 or 18-009-06), filter TSB (21-007-06) involves delayed engagement into reverse after prolonged parking, and 21-009-06 only applies if the torque converter comes apart.
Author:  alljeep [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:46 am ]
Post subject: 
I get the occassional shudder... It's always at 53mph. I've had the reflash TSB for '05s for "improved glow plug and torque converter durability."

My dealer can not reproduce it. Of course, when they came for a ride along, it would not happen. The instant they were out, it was back. I've parked mine for now to try and get back in line with my 7yr/70k power train warranty just in case. I put almost 14k miles on it in 9 months.
Author:  chrismc [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
RFCRD wrote:
What you describe as a hard shift is actually a lock-up and is a software issue. The DC tech support rep I met with a few weeks ago said they are very aware of the problem and have a new software release coming soon to address the issue. The problem is embedded in the software logic in TSB 18-009-06 or 18-008-06 (whichever applies to your model year) that controls the torque converter lock-up clutch. This could happen in 3rd, 4th, or 5th gear depending on when you stop accelerating. Mine is most noticable in 3rd (35 mph) but also get a hard thump in 5th at times. They are trying to achieve an "early" torque converter lock-up to maximize fuel economy and durability of the clutch. They asked for paitence, a fix is coming.


Cool, thanks for the info. Be sure to post if you hear that the new software has been released. My dealer is pretty customer-friendly and I don't expect any problems getting it done if I call them up. I lucked out in finding a Dodge/Jeep dealer in a rural area (read "lots of experience on Cummins diesels").
Author:  bbertram [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
Got my delayed shift into reverse TSB done and one other for the ECM module on the motor or something. My shudder has gone down to none or very little. I also have gained some power I think, it pulls better down low in town, less turbo lag I think.
Author:  Tom_with_a_Dream [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Vox -

I am dropping my Jeep off for a barrage of maintenance to have them replace my EGR (number 3) and asked about the TransGo shift kit. I ordered the deep trans pan and wanted them to install both while they had the Jeep. I was told that the pan was a non-warranty issue, no problem, but installing the shift kit would void the balance of my trans portion of the PowerTrain warranty.

Doesn't bother me, I am over 25K and only had it in possession for under six mojnths. I will be at 70K before the kids are out of school next year, maybe even before the last snow....
Author:  Vox Fatalis [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
RFCRD wrote:
What TSB are you trying to get done? The software update is not their choice (18-009-06 or 18-009-06), filter TSB (21-007-06) involves delayed engagement into reverse after prolonged parking, and 21-009-06 only applies if the torque converter comes apart.


I'm thinking it's 21-009-06 because two the three symptoms occur... the shuddering as the tranny doesn't figure out what's going on, and the rapping noise at idle.
Author:  RFCRD [ Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
Vox Fatalis wrote:
RFCRD wrote:
What TSB are you trying to get done? The software update is not their choice (18-009-06 or 18-009-06), filter TSB (21-007-06) involves delayed engagement into reverse after prolonged parking, and 21-009-06 only applies if the torque converter comes apart.


I'm thinking it's 21-009-06 because two the three symptoms occur... the shuddering as the tranny doesn't figure out what's going on, and the rapping noise at idle.

Now I know why they want to argue, it's the big $$$ one. I got a blank stare from my service manager when I first mentioned the TSB's for this Jeep. Have a feeling they confuse 18-009-06 with 21-009-06, part of the reluctance to do the TSB's.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Anyone's clunk going into park?
Do those with the shuddery transmission also get a "clunk" type sound when you put it in park :?: It feels like the transmission has torque applied to it. Kind of like pulling it out of park when your on a hill :cry: This is a all the time type problem and I may take it in because they can reproduce it. As far as a fix goes I think we can only establish a history of our problems before the warranty expires and wait for them to "get it right" :shock: I'm affraid they're going to try and fix it with a flash but I think it's going to require a different/better torque converter :( Only thing I think a flash will do is to prolong the failures till they're out of warranty :(
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