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EGR SNAFU
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Author:  dog_party [ Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  EGR SNAFU
Well, the bug bit me too. 15,500 miles on the clock. Just before 15k I started noticing a hard shut-off...like the motor wanted to keep running when I turned the key off (can I blame it? I want to keep running it too!!).

Had the 15k service done and, 500 miles later, I got the CEL. Took it in on Monday and the "service" advisor gave me a hassle about getting a rental vehicle. He finally decided that I had "one more left." So I got a rental for one day. He called me that afternoon and said it was fixed. I picked it up in a hurry. When I asked him what happened, he said, "It just threw a code. That can happen when it gets really hot." I looked at him incredulously and should have left it there and MADE them call Star techs, but I was in a hurry. So I took the truck and left.

Stopped at the grocery on the way home and, when I shut it off...shock surprise...hard shut-down.

CEL popped again before I made it home. I called him back and told him and he said, "You're out of free rentals." and I asked him if he really thought resetting the CEL on Monday was Hall's (the dealership name) concept of "fixing" a vehicle. He went to his manager and they okayed me for one more rental since I had just left.

So I dropped it off this morning and I got another rental. When I dropped it off I told him, "Okay, to restate the issue I noticed before the first CEL...the truck shuts off rough. I think this might be the EGR, so please check that."

He called me a couple hours later and said, "We figured out what's wrong! It's the EGR. I have one coming in from New Jersey. It won't be here until tomorrow." I told him that was fine, as long as it got fixed.

Then he went on to tell me that the rental was only good for one day...








(...yea, I paused for a moment too...)







I think I said something like, "Are you serious?" He, unfortunately, stated that he was, indeed, serious. "So I have to pay for a rental vehicle because you can't get a part to fix the truck that you sold to me less than a year ago? He, unfortunately, stated that I was, indeed, correct.

To his credit, he did give me a number at DC to call. 800.922.1997. After being on hold for a long time, I talked to Chris, who was a very nice guy. He gave me an address to send my rental receipt to to get reimbursed and asked me a lot about how I liked the CRD and what mileage I was getting. Cool, but what a pain in the butt. This should be a non-issue.

I love this truck. The first model year of anything this leading-edge has growing pains. I don't mind AT ALL going through those growing pains (especially for a truck that's as great as this one), but I DO EXPECT Daimler Chrysler to stand behind me as I alpha test their product. I explained this to Chris and he agreed with me completely. He was really amazed that the dealership was "not taking care of their customer's vehicles."

So my truck now has a corporate DC file number. Maybe things will get taken care of now....... :?: :?: :?:

We'll see.
Author:  alljeep [ Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
I was hoping you would be one of the few lucky ones. Especially since yours was made the same month as mine in '05. So much for that mental security blanket... :(
Author:  cerich [ Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
alljeep wrote:
I was hoping you would be one of the few lucky ones. Especially since yours was made the same month as mine in '05. So much for that mental security blanket... :(


yeah me too with a june 05 crd...
Author:  Ugg [ Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Don't let Hall jerk you around. I've gotten a rental(s) for more than one day because of my EGR. Anyway, Hall replaced two EGR valves and then they had to replace my EGR Air Control Flow Valve. I'm thinking that you are in for a couple of valves......
Author:  RFCRD [ Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
alljeep wrote:
I was hoping you would be one of the few lucky ones. Especially since yours was made the same month as mine in '05. So much for that mental security blanket... :(

I heard that the Khaki ones don't have as much EGR problems. With all the issues I've seen with mine, never had a CEL with almost 16K miles. I think I have the same build date (6/20).
Author:  alljeep [ Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:18 am ]
Post subject: 
RFCRD wrote:
alljeep wrote:
I was hoping you would be one of the few lucky ones. Especially since yours was made the same month as mine in '05. So much for that mental security blanket... :(

I heard that the Khaki ones don't have as much EGR problems. With all the issues I've seen with mine, never had a CEL with almost 16K miles. I think I have the same build date (6/20).


I'll beileve that! I need to believe in something! At least when the EGR goes we can drive it to the shop for repair. The one I'm worried about is the apparent high level of torque converters going bad - broken down on the road is one thing I'm not very good at.

What bugs me is I had the ORIGINAL tranny filter TSB done, the one when they ONLY replaced the oil return filter. Two weeks later, they issue a new one stating to replace both, and NEVER just one - I can't get a dealer to do the newer one because I had the first one done...
Author:  RFCRD [ Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:42 am ]
Post subject: 
alljeep wrote:
What bugs me is I had the ORIGINAL tranny filter TSB done, the one when they ONLY replaced the oil return filter. Two weeks later, they issue a new one stating to replace both, and NEVER just one - I can't get a dealer to do the newer one because I had the first one done...

Did they show you the inside of the pan when they did the filter TSB? Mine was completely clean @ 15.5K. There is a small magnet in the corner of the pan that by the 30K service will be covered with cuttings and will need cleaning. From what the tech told me the spin-on filter is the defective one. They got a batch with defective check valves in the filters (similiar design to the check valve in the oil filter). The larger flat filter with the pick-up tube may have a second issue that has to do with careless install possibly damaging a seal. They told me I would have known it by now if that had happened.
Author:  alljeep [ Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:55 am ]
Post subject: 
RFCRD wrote:
The larger flat filter with the pick-up tube may have a second issue that has to do with careless install possibly damaging a seal. They told me I would have known it by now if that had happened.


That is very good to hear. Thanks. It's been 6k miles since I had it done. One weird thing is I have a delayed shift into reverse AFTER I've been driving for awhile and everything is all warmed up and still running. Like going to the store, then put into reverse to back into a parking space and it can take 3-4 seconds. But, no delayed shift into reverse after being parked all night...

(Yeah, this is not EGR talk, but I still have 2k miles before I catch up with dog_party and have to follow him into the shop for an EGR - maybe I can have the transmission addressed - if it's abnormal).

Speaking of which - hey dog_party, you may want to review the alphabet soup EGR sticky. Sounds like your EGR Air Flow Control Valve is bad. Also sounds like your dealer has a history of replacing the EGR, and not necessarily the Air Flow Control Valve. Maybe they are mis-diagnosing as someone else mentioned they had 2 EGR valves done at the same dealer already before they finally replaced the Air Flow Control Valve. Sounds suspect... (it was Ugg just a few posts above)
Author:  RFCRD [ Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:04 am ]
Post subject: 
alljeep wrote:
One weird thing is I have a delayed shift into reverse AFTER I've been driving for awhile and everything is all warmed up and still running. Like going to the store, then put into reverse to back into a parking space and it can take 3-4 seconds. But, no delayed shift into reverse after being parked all night...

Mine was doing this too before the TSB was done. Was very noticable if I had to do a 3-point turn in a parking lot. Took several seconds between a forward gear and reverse and back to forward. The dealer told me it was normal and showed me in the description in the owners manual. Since the TSB, it's gone.
Author:  pierce1979 [ Fri Jul 14, 2006 9:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Mine is in right now for the 2nd replacement EGR valve, this time I have close to 25K, I made an appt so that way I knew I could get a car, the dealership gave me no hassle about getting a loaner, they have gave me 06 Sport Liberty to drive until my CRD is finished, they said he it would be a few days for the part to come in and just keep the other liberty until then. Not happy about having to replace the EGR valve again but the service at the dealership has been good. (Rochester Hills Chrysler Jeep)
Author:  kjfishman [ Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  national back order
pierce1979 wrote:
Mine is in right now for the 2nd replacement EGR valve, this time I have close to 25K, I made an appt so that way I knew I could get a car, the dealership gave me no hassle about getting a loaner, they have gave me 06 Sport Liberty to drive until my CRD is finished, they said he it would be a few days for the part to come in and just keep the other liberty until then. Not happy about having to replace the EGR valve again but the service at the dealership has been good. (Rochester Hills Chrysler Jeep)


EGR related failure number 2 for me. I am at 24k and have been waiting for an EGR Air Control Flow Valve for 2 weeks now, They say it is on national back order. No estimate of when the part will be available. I sent Jeff Bell a letter exoressing my concerns about the EGR issue but no responce to yet. I haven't gotten to the stage I regret purchasing the CRD and hope they come up with answers before then. Now my wife she isn't so pleased with the purchase. If it were her dailly ride I suspect it would be gone.
Author:  Ugg [ Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Whoops, my bad. I didn't have two EGR valves replaced. It was the EGR Valve, followed by the EGR Air Control Flow Valve followed by the PCM (Program Control Module). After everything was done and over, it was like a whole new CRD. :D
Author:  Vox Fatalis [ Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:48 am ]
Post subject: 
You guys are making me nervous about EGR stuff now... :) My CRD was born 3/05.

I'm a little over 9k miles on it now (yeah sadly over 3k/month) and no EGR issues.
Author:  Saber [ Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:18 am ]
Post subject: 
Wow :!: when my dealer did my EGR it took them 4 hours, and I had a gas Libby to drive for the day off the used car lot.
Author:  dog_party [ Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
I got the CRD back yesterday and they didn't charge me for the rental. I really hate that they're making me jump through these freakin' hoops.

When I got the truck back I jumped in and shut the motor off and.......rough shut-down. :cry: I shut it off and started it a bunch of times to see if I could make the CEL pop again, but it didn't, so I came home. I have a feeling it won't be long before it pops again and I have to go in and get the valve done too. Pathetic. Next time I go in I'm going directly to my service advisor's boss.
Author:  RFCRD [ Sat Jul 15, 2006 12:36 pm ]
Post subject: 
dog_party wrote:
I got the CRD back yesterday and they didn't charge me for the rental. I really hate that they're making me jump through these freakin' hoops.

When I got the truck back I jumped in and shut the motor off and.......rough shut-down. :cry: I shut it off and started it a bunch of times to see if I could make the CEL pop again, but it didn't, so I came home. I have a feeling it won't be long before it pops again and I have to go in and get the valve done too. Pathetic. Next time I go in I'm going directly to my service advisor's boss.

You may want to run yours a few times, then toggle the key and check for codes. One thing not discussed much is the software running these engines is usually very adjustable. It is easy to change the parameters which defective (or partially defective) components throw codes. It is also possible to set this where it may log a code and not illuminate the CEL (blind CEL). Only a gut hunch, but suspect some of the early software reflashes had some of these changes embedded in them. The logic is simple, No CEL = No warranty repair. Just adjust the software parametes and let the EGR components run sloppy without alarming the customer with a CEL.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:05 pm ]
Post subject: 
dog_party wrote:
I got the CRD back yesterday and they didn't charge me for the rental. I really hate that they're making me jump through these freakin' hoops.

When I got the truck back I jumped in and shut the motor off and.......rough shut-down. :cry: I shut it off and started it a bunch of times to see if I could make the CEL pop again, but it didn't, so I came home. I have a feeling it won't be long before it pops again and I have to go in and get the valve done too. Pathetic. Next time I go in I'm going directly to my service advisor's boss.


Does the paperwork show whether the dealership replaced the egr valve or the air control valve that works with the egr valve? The part numbers for both are listed on this forum on another thread... curious to know what they replaced. Just going by what your symptoms sound like, it would seem as if the air control valve isn't shutting on engine shutdown.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
[quote="RFCRD You may want to run yours a few times, then toggle the key and check for codes. One thing not discussed much is the software running these engines is usually very adjustable. It is easy to change the parameters which defective (or partially defective) components throw codes. It is also possible to set this where it may log a code and not illuminate the CEL (blind CEL). Only a gut hunch, but suspect some of the early software reflashes had some of these changes embedded in them. The logic is simple, No CEL = No warranty repair. Just adjust the software parametes and let the EGR components run sloppy without alarming the customer with a CEL.[/quote]

Don't some states check for codes? And wouldn't this be frowned on my the EPA :twisted:
Author:  RFCRD [ Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Joe Romas wrote:
[quote="RFCRD] You may want to run yours a few times, then toggle the key and check for codes. One thing not discussed much is the software running these engines is usually very adjustable. It is easy to change the parameters which defective (or partially defective) components throw codes. It is also possible to set this where it may log a code and not illuminate the CEL (blind CEL). Only a gut hunch, but suspect some of the early software reflashes had some of these changes embedded in them. The logic is simple, No CEL = No warranty repair. Just adjust the software parametes and let the EGR components run sloppy without alarming the customer with a CEL.


Don't some states check for codes? And wouldn't this be frowned on my the EPA :twisted:[/quote]

I was not as clear as I should have been. Easing the operating parameters won't always log an error code, just make it less likely. If there is a code, as long as it's "historic" and not "active" should not effect the e-check.

You don't by chance know if this Jeep will be subject to Ohio e-check? I don't even think the fuel cap is designed to pass their test.
Author:  T^2 [ Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Ranger1 wrote:
dog_party wrote:
I got the CRD back yesterday and they didn't charge me for the rental. I really hate that they're making me jump through these freakin' hoops.

When I got the truck back I jumped in and shut the motor off and.......rough shut-down. :cry: I shut it off and started it a bunch of times to see if I could make the CEL pop again, but it didn't, so I came home. I have a feeling it won't be long before it pops again and I have to go in and get the valve done too. Pathetic. Next time I go in I'm going directly to my service advisor's boss.


Does the paperwork show whether the dealership replaced the egr valve or the air control valve that works with the egr valve? The part numbers for both are listed on this forum on another thread... curious to know what they replaced. Just going by what your symptoms sound like, it would seem as if the air control valve isn't shutting on engine shutdown.


Ya - what he said... The symptoms that you describe are indicative of a stuck EGR Air Flow Control Valve (also known as an anti shudder valve). One of the functions of this valve is to prevent the rough shut down that you are experiencing. They replaced my second EGR valve before they figured out that it wasn't the EGR valve and was in fact the EGR Air Control Valve. I was having the same problems as you. I won't be surprised if you get another CEL light very shortly. I also suspect that the codes you got were P0401 and P0299. Am I right?

I posted about my experience with the EGR Air Control Valves. You can read that post here: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=233262
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