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06 limited CRD and tranny problems
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Author:  wingfoot [ Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:  06 limited CRD and tranny problems
Hey all. I have been keeping tabs with all that has been going on here relating to TSBs and the like, hoping that because mine was manufactured in May of 06, I wouldn't have any problems. We have had it for a month and it has barely 1500 miles on it.

Today when my wife was on her way to pick me up from work, she had a problem. She tried to accelerate at a light and got to 15MPH and it wouldn't continue to speed up any further. She came to a stop and got serious tranny shutter. She turned it of, waited a few seconds and tried to start it back up but it wouldn't start. Turned it off again and waited and it started after that. She said no check engine or code lights, but it was obviously an issue. We called the dealer and they told us to bring it in. When we got in I tried to mention the TSB's but the advisor didn't really respond to my comments. However he did say there is a recall for my KJ, but didn't explain it other then an "Engine Computer re-flash". Which is the first time I heard about the new recall (see the other post about F31). I asked if it had anything to do with the current TSB's and he said no. So we'll see what happens. I'll update when I know more.
Author:  RFCRD [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 06 limited CRD and tranny problems
wingfoot wrote:
Hey all. I have been keeping tabs with all that has been going on here relating to TSBs and the like, hoping that because mine was manufactured in May of 06, I wouldn't have any problems. We have had it for a month and it has barely 1500 miles on it.

Today when my wife was on her way to pick me up from work, she had a problem. She tried to accelerate at a light and got to 15MPH and it wouldn't continue to speed up any further. She came to a stop and got serious tranny shutter. She turned it of, waited a few seconds and tried to start it back up but it wouldn't start. Turned it off again and waited and it started after that. She said no check engine or code lights, but it was obviously an issue. We called the dealer and they told us to bring it in. When we got in I tried to mention the TSB's but the advisor didn't really respond to my comments. However he did say there is a recall for my KJ, but didn't explain it other then an "Engine Computer re-flash". Which is the first time I heard about the new recall (see the other post about F31). I asked if it had anything to do with the current TSB's and he said no. So we'll see what happens. I'll update when I know more.

What you describe is probably not transmission related. I would look for a fuel problem first such as a air/suction leak or just bad fuel. Start with a heavy dose of PowerService. If this happens again, try the primer pump and see if it goes away.
Author:  wingfoot [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Update
They applied the Recal update and in the process of trying to determine what was wrong, they got a check engine light with codes (don't know them yet). That was yesterday. I just got a call saying the PCM is fried and it is on order but they are not sure if that is the reason for the problems or a side-affect. So we'll see.

RFCRD: I will look into that when I get it back, thx.

Also, I have been using about a B50 mix of Bio from The Grande here in Issaquah. Has anyone had any problems with the Bio from there?
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Thu Aug 17, 2006 5:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
What she was probably experincing was "limp" mode, where the Jeep was detecting fuel, engine, transmission, etc. errors and kept the Liberty in 2nd gear. It likely threw a CEL code but she was distracted by the other stuff and didn't notice it. I had a similar experience that disappeared by the time I got to the dealer. They pulled the codes but they were unusual and the problem has never recurred.
Author:  nycrd [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 10:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Just a bit of advice...DOCUMENT EVERYTHING!!!
it may come handy.
Author:  Zonie [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 11:15 am ]
Post subject: 
When the truck throws a code where does it show up if I have the EVIC? The dash? The EVIC?
Author:  no-blue-screen [ Fri Aug 18, 2006 1:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think DC approves the use of B50. I thought they said the max approved was B5. If this is related to the injection/fuel system, you better hope they don't find out about the B50 because they may void your warranty on the fuel system. I have seen posts of others running 100% bioD, but the biggest problem with BioD right now is that it isn't strictly regulated like Dino...so sometimes you can run into bad fuel. Heck you can sometimes even get bad Dino...but knock on wood...I haven't had that problem yet.
Author:  offroadsubaru [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
A former co-worker uses B99 (IIRC) from the Grange in an F-350 with the Power Stroke 7.3 V8. No problems ever.
Author:  Cowpie1 [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
offroadsubaru wrote:
A former co-worker uses B99 (IIRC) from the Grange in an F-350 with the Power Stroke 7.3 V8. No problems ever.


I have used varying levels of Bio successfully as well. But as was mentioned earlier, if DC finds out your running larger percentage than B5, it will give them an excuse to refuse warrenty work on engine and fuel system.

I am a firm believer in Bio, but until CAT, Cummins, International, Detroit Diesel, etc get their heads screwed on right, They will use the Bio to blame. After all, they are trying to avoid any cost to them.

Just have the "buyer beware" mindset and then do as you feel. I use B10 or B20 frequently.
Author:  onthehunt [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
I cannot believe people are using more than a b-5 blend of bio in the crd!!!! With the all the bashing and teething issues with this vehicle you turn around and give chrysler a reason to deny your warranty.UNBELIEVABLE. Just don't come back here and whine about all the problems you have and how chrysler denied warranty and now you are going to sue them because YOU KNOW it wasn't YOUR bio that screwed it up. Everyone knows someone who runs 100% bio and has never had a problem. Who cares!? I'm not gambling on it and neither should you. If you wanted a vehicle to run on 100% bio maybe you should have bought one in the FIRST PLACE. Chrysler states 5% max bio. Why would they not state a higher number if they could? What would they lose? Please, big oil conspiracy theory reponses not needed. I'm starting to wonder if some of the more weird problems don't have something to do with high% bio mixes. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for bio fuels and their proper use. This vehicle just isn't one of them.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I'm starting to wonder if some of the more weird problems don't have something to do with high% bio mixes.


Which ones? Tranny torque converters? EGR valves, air flow control valves, glow plugs? Tranny shudder/bucking at 55-65 mph? Factory ccv valve behaving like an automatic intake oiling system instead of an air-oil separator? Bad TCM software requiring a recall to remove it?

The failures that should be associated with biodiesel usage, which would be injector failure, pump leakage, pump pressure loss, are not even mentioned on the CRD forums. Most of the problems are related to emissions control devices, ccv valves blowing oil into the intake system and tranny issues. Except for the infamous sticking rear brakes which is not limited to CRD Liberty's.

But yes, DC will use Bio use higher than B5 to invalidate warranty - but it would have to be on something that actually failed from using Biodiesel. If you don't use Bio, they will sometimes invent reasons - when my tc blew up at around 18K, the tech wrote that using Dexron caused the failure - but he didn't know when he put that on the paperwork that his dealership was the only servicing dealer, nor did he realize the severe tranny fluid change interval was 63K miles. A hasty retreat soon occured when the owner saw the paperwork showing his dealership servicing the vehicle the previous 14 months. But that didn't stop him from trying.

Keep in mind that this is the exact same support structure which will soon be servicing the new Jeep GC V6 diesel. Wonder if it will go any better?
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Wingfoot,

Don't let them scare you away from Bio. Lots of people here are using it faultlessly. There are problems with dino too and if DC figures you have a fuel related problem that they can fault they will void your warranty on that too. The Grange seems to have pretty good fuel so perhaps you want to switch pumps!

Go somewhere and read the codes if you can't get them out of the odometer. Then go to Oldnavy's code sticky and find out what was causing them. (My recent codes are not on his list though!)

I had a similar problem a month or so ago when I started up in a parking lot about a mile from the dealer. The "Check Engine" (CEL) light came on and I was in "Limp Mode" with the engine stuck in 2nd. I drove directly to the dealer and the code was a rare one for "Incorrect Engine Speed" It cleared and has never returned.

Computerized autos are sometimes too smart and something that would have caused a sputter in 1950 now throws a CEL code, a "limp mode" has everyone running to their keyboard. Check it out a little more before pressing the PANIC BUTTON or throwing the PENALTY FLAG.
Author:  Ranger1 [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
a "limp mode" has everyone running to their keyboard.


Unless it happens to you while you're on a busy freeway. Not too fun when suddenly you're doing 30 mph even with full pedal with cars whizzing by at 60 mph, as happened to me. On a 4WD jeep. it could be fatal if you're offroad, climbing a very steep hill, needing full power to keep from sliding sideways in the mud, downhill and over a steep dropoff.

The software really needs some cleanup. What it really needs is competent programming and testing before release. What concerns me is the seemingly unending series of flash updates, with similar problems still occuring. In contrast, the PCM for the V6 doesn't need these updates and on mine at least, has never set a single MIL light or code in 5 years.

On the bio issue, you're correct, but if you use higher than B5, be prepared to be your own warranty or get the fuel station to pay for repairs. Same applies to bad D2.
Author:  onthehunt [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm not trying to scare anyone from using bio. Just use it properly. All I'm saying is why would you give chrysler an excuse not to warranty a problem on this vehicle?? Ever think you are doing more harm then good with your bio% use? What if chrysler just decided not to approve bio with any % just to get rid of that variable? Then how much good are you really doing? This vehicle was designed,tested, and manufactured for reguar diesel. The 5% bio mix is just a pr game. With only 5% bio you would have to screw up bad to get a fuel related problem.Their butts are covered. Are yours??
Author:  Ranger1 [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Their butts are covered. Are yours??

Not with bad biodiesel or bad D2. DC has warranted B20 for some Cummins diesels using a specific spec biodiesel, probably because they had to. It's not biodiesel thats the issue, its quality control.

They are also working with standards bodies to agree on a suitable B20 spec. In Europe, I'm sure the same CRD engine is running B20 or higher right now, but they have better defined biodiesel specs and process control.
Author:  RFCRD [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
onthehunt wrote:
Chrysler states 5% max bio. Why would they not state a higher number if they could? What would they lose? Please, big oil conspiracy theory reponses not needed. I'm starting to wonder if some of the more weird problems don't have something to do with high% bio mixes. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for bio fuels and their proper use. This vehicle just isn't one of them.

The origin of the 5% limit comes from a joint statement released by the fuel injection equipment manufacturers several years ago. Their primary concern was fuel quality and uniform manufacturing standards. DC (and other auto manufacturers) has an additional issue with EPA certifying their engines, the results of which can vary widely depending on many variables, fuel type/quality being just one. It is well known that biodiesel usage causes elevated NOx emissions, an issue that already challenges this engine's ability to pass current '05/'06 emissions. The moral of this is that it would be unlikely for DC to OK the usage of a higher biodiesel % on this engine even if they wanted. It simply would not make emissions and thus none of us would have a CRD. A final consideration, 5% is considered the limit where a subtance is considered an "additive" and not a primary fuel. This is a slick way around the EPA regulation and allow for some biofuel usage.

I understand your concern and believe you are correct that some of the reported problems such as bucking/stumbling, stalling, and hard starting are fuel related and possibly related to high concentration biofuel usage. At this time, we lack proof of this, one way or the other. We all have a purchase choice to make. I happen to enjoy the way the CRD runs with a B10 to B20 blend and can notice the difference when burning straight dino. I am also convinced that the added lubricity and natural cleaning action of the biodiesel is beneficial to this injection system. Thus, my purchase choice will continue to be to maintain those blends until proven otherwise.
Author:  onthehunt [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
[/quote]understand your concern and believe you are correct that some of the reported problems such as bucking/stumbling, stalling, and hard starting are fuel related and possibly related to high concentration biofuel usage. At this time, we lack proof of this, one way or the other. We all have a purchase choice to make. I happen to enjoy the way the CRD runs with a B10 to B20 blend and can notice the difference when burning straight dino. I am also convinced that the added lubricity and natural cleaning action of the biodiesel is beneficial to this injection system. Thus, my purchase choice will continue to be to maintain those blends until proven otherwise.[quote]

Agreed and glad we have a choice. How is your oil consumption test going? Sorry to totally derail this thread.
Author:  RFCRD [ Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
onthehunt wrote:
understand your concern and believe you are correct that some of the reported problems such as bucking/stumbling, stalling, and hard starting are fuel related and possibly related to high concentration biofuel usage. At this time, we lack proof of this, one way or the other. We all have a purchase choice to make. I happen to enjoy the way the CRD runs with a B10 to B20 blend and can notice the difference when burning straight dino. I am also convinced that the added lubricity and natural cleaning action of the biodiesel is beneficial to this injection system. Thus, my purchase choice will continue to be to maintain those blends until proven otherwise.
Quote:


Agreed and glad we have a choice. How is your oil consumption test going? Sorry to totally derail this thread.

I am 100% convinced the problem was the air filter getting wet. At 3000 miles on 0W40, dipstick still on full. Have some light oiling out of the turbo in the main CAC hose up to the first bend, then clean and dry. Thus far recovered @ 1/2 cup of discharge in the Provent drain bottle.
Author:  Jim Friese [ Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Limp Mode
:cry: What you have described as limp mode happened to me today on I70 just east of Indianaplois IN. My Liberty went from 65 MPH to about 40 MPH in about 2 sec. Luck for me their was no one to the left or righr or behind me, otherwise I would not be teling you this. MY limp mode was preceeded by a
very loud Klunk . When I take it in the the dealer tomorrow he will know that I have reported this as a safty issue to the NHTSA.
MY CRD had 1190 Miles on it when this happened. I also has some tranny shudder later. This all lasted for about 30 secs. then cleared up.

2006 Liberty CRD
1190 Miles on clock.
Red Sport.
Has had f31 done about two weeks ago.

I wll keep you all posted on this.
Author:  no-blue-screen [ Tue Sep 05, 2006 10:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
now this is making me nervous. Make sure you submit a detailed account to NHTSA and tell them you were almost in a fatal accident. DC needs to do something about this problem and soon......before someone gets seriously injured or looses their life.
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