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Biodiesel storage
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13225		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  irunmiles [ Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Biodiesel storage
I plan to purchase B99 and mix my own blends with dino. Do I have to purchase the yellow plastic containers that are marked for diesel, or can I use the red plastic containers that are marked for gasoline (that I already own). I'm thinking they are the same type of plastic, just the color is different so you don't get them mixed up. Am I correct?
Author:  RFCRD [ Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Biodiesel storage
irunmiles wrote:
I plan to purchase B99 and mix my own blends with dino. Do I have to purchase the yellow plastic containers that are marked for diesel, or can I use the red plastic containers that are marked for gasoline (that I already own). I'm thinking they are the same type of plastic, just the color is different so you don't get them mixed up. Am I correct?

I use both yellow and red for B100 without any problems. Just make sure the gasoline is cleaned out if they are used. If you are concerned about mix-ups, try a permanent marker.
Author:  Cowpie1 [ Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Biodiesel storage
irunmiles wrote:
I plan to purchase B99 and mix my own blends with dino. Do I have to purchase the yellow plastic containers that are marked for diesel, or can I use the red plastic containers that are marked for gasoline (that I already own). I'm thinking they are the same type of plastic, just the color is different so you don't get them mixed up. Am I correct?


A comment on this since winter is setting in. B99 will start it's clouding and possible gelling at 32F. If you get some, get it mixed with diesel as soon as you can or keep it in a warm environment. You shouldn't have any problem with mixes up to B20 as long as you treat it like you would any diesel for cold weather (additives, antigel).

Technically, Yellow cans would be used for diesel and bio. Reds for gas and ethanol. Blue for kerosene. But unless you are trying to get the attention of someone in enforcement, no one will probably question what you are putting in any color. You would probably tick off the fire department, but after a fire, who would know what color you put the fuel in. :wink:
Author:  SteveInMD [ Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:22 am ]
Post subject: 
The is nothing in the federal hazardous materials transportation regulations that requires you to use a certain color container; you being the end user of the fuel. Further, after the purchase the fuel (as soon as it leaves the pump) there are no haz mat rules about the type of container, the colors, or the markings on it. The haz mat rules only apply to material that is "in commerce". The states do not have different rules than the federal ones. Since hazardous material transportation is an interstate issue, it is regulated by the federal government, not the states. It may be possible there are some local laws on this issue, but I've never actually seen one in writing; I've only heard stories. If anyone has a reference to a law or regulation I'd be interested to see it.

In some cases the gas station operator will tell you that your container needs to be a certain color, but they are trying to apply to rules to the wrong people.

Having said that the containers I use are red or gas, yellow for diesel, and blue for kerosene.
Author:  rs4mtnitro [ Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:30 am ]
Post subject: 
Pay with credit card out of the line of site of the register jockey. Works every time. I have used an antifreeze jug that way.
Author:  BiodieselJeep.com [ Mon Oct 09, 2006 1:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
Certain plastics do have problems....but not those PVC kind, they are all the same stuff. The gaskets in most of those are probably bomb-proof as well.

However, the gaskets on the hand-pump you'll use on your barrel may not hold up so well. I have a tough looking mettal barrel pump (bought from Napa) and it slowly leaks out near the top over night after use. Make a puddle on the top of the barrel and the BioD then eats the paint. I have yet to find a bomb-proof hand-pump, and niether has any of the other biod-guys I know....so plan ahead for the puddle!

Also, painted garage floor will probably get ruined, so will asphalt. Cement is fine.
Author:  valkraider [ Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
SteveInMD wrote:
The haz mat rules only apply to material that is "in commerce". The states do not have different rules than the federal ones.


This is not true. I am currently implementing computer systems for several state agencies with regards to hazmat tracking and enforcement. I can assure you that their are states that DO have rules that go above and beyond those of the feds.

The best advice is if you are worried - check it out locally.

However, B100 can be stored in anything legally... (currently, although a high profile fire here in Oregon has caused it to come to the attention of policy makers).

Biodiesel will eat through some plastics - but any of the fuel containers (any color) will be fine.

And additionally, the fuel sellers cannot prohibit the color of the container - just that it has to be an "approved" container. Most ATV fuel containers are transluscent white... You see people filling them up for 4 wheelers, dune buggies, boats, all sorts of stuff....
Author:  SteveInMD [ Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd love to see a rule or law in writing. Although it was about 10 years ago. I have extensive training in this area. The last thing I want to do is start a battle here, but looking at actual rules is a much more meaningful way to proceed.

There are no local laws in my area. Only the federal rules, which apply only to material in commerce.
Author:  SteveInMD [ Mon Oct 09, 2006 7:30 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here's a quote from a haz mat transportation FAQ from government lab. It backs up what I said.


The key to the answer is the definition of “consumer commodity” which means a material that is packaged and distributed in a form intended or suitable for sale through retail sales agencies or instrumentalities for consumption by individuals for purposes of personal care or household use. This term also includes drugs and medicines. The Hazardous Material Transportation Act (HMTA) and its associated Hazardous Material Regulations (HMR) apply only to hazardous materials transportation in commerce. Transportation in “commerce” is any transportation that is or affects interstate or intrastate trade or traffic (in goods and/or services) in furtherance of a commercial enterprise or business. When you purchase your propane tank or cylinder for your barbeque pit, the propane and its cylinder become a consumer commodity for your personal consumption for household use and the transportation of the propane cylinder to your home is not in commerce since that transportation does not affect intrastate trade or traffic in furtherance of a commercial enterprise or business. Since the transport is not in commerce, the HMR do not apply.

Here's the link...

http://www.bnl.gov/esh/shsd/Programs/Program_Area_HazMat_Transportation_FAQ.asp

It goes on to say that the DOT can regulate the the type of container in which the material is offered for sale. You wont find propane for sale in a plastic jug. After you buy it, do what you like with it. The same goes for fuel, which is offered for sale in no container at all. Once it leaves the pump at the fuel station, it's yours to put into whatever you want.
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