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Vibration -- didn't want to jack another thread
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13548		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  gypsygirl [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Vibration -- didn't want to jack another thread
OK, I thought I'd finally put this out there to get as much input as possible. I'm not sure if this is a problem related to the CRD engine (weight, whatever) or not, so I figured I'd post it here anyway...

1.) I bought the Liberty on Sept 2 with 20 miles on the clock up in NJ. Drove her back down to my house in VA after putting a couple hundred miles on her in PA. I didn't notice any problems.

2.) But, on my next trip to PA the vibrations started. Happened 3 or so times over the course of 150-200 miles. I ended up noticing that they'd start somewhere above 50-55 mph and wouldn't stop until they were ready -- I think it was 10 or so miles and then they would stop out of no where. I took it up to 80 (didn't want to take the engine up too high since it was still so new) to try to find a speed where it would smooth out and I never found one. I didn't slow below 50 because I was on I-95. The vibrations would vary from a slight steering wheel shimmy (0.5 inch?) to the steel wheel shimmying ~1.5 inches and the entire truck shaking violently. This was when I was at 50 mph debating just pulling over and calling a tow truck. Then it just stopped out of no where.

I took the Jeep right to the local dealership where I was headed. They did a TSB (the tranny computer reprogram I think?) and the LBJ recall. Said the tires were balanced fine (that's what I thought it was) and said they didn't experience it vibrating.

Drove it back to VA with only slight vibrating. I thought it was just me being not used to All Terrain tires so I ignored it (my last car was a Jetta and that thing drove smooth as silk).

3.) I ended up taking it into the shop about 2 weeks later when I had the time to get a ride again. I told them I spoke to someone who experienced the same thing and it was warped front rotors. They ended up determining the front tires were unbalanced. Odd, because 2 weeks ago they were fine, but whatever. They said it was driving smooth. I picked it up and it seemed fine.

4.) Couple days later, it was definitely still not fine. It hasn't vibrated as badly as that first time (where the whole truck shook, violently), but it still gets so bad where it's uncomfortable for me to even hold the steering wheel. I dropped it off this past Sunday night. The service manager drove it home Mon night because it didn't act up all day. Tuesday he said he had experienced what I described and they said they determined that the brakes "weren't releasing completely" -- this would explain the less-than-stellar fuel mileage I've been getting... <20 mpg mixed conditions. They said they had a call into Chrysler and "hopefully" they'd hear back from them tomorrow (today)...


Any tips (on what it might be, something to reimburse for the terrible fuel mileage and/or inconvenience, anything!)?? The truck had 1427 miles on it when I dropped it off Sunday night and they don't even give me a rental! I sold the Jetta 3 weeks ago so I'm bumming a ride from a friend... Ugh.

Thanks in advance for even reading this whole thing and sorry it was so long...

-Becky
Author:  DarbyWalters [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would definitely have the check that the front wheel bearing assembly is bolted up tight...it is a one piece unit and pretty easy to check on a lift.

18-20 mixed mpg is about the norm for a CRD that is new...less than 3,000 miles.

Definitely have them scope the brake rotors or check they are true after having the caliper problem...In fact they should just do a complete front brake job with new pads.

Also front driveshafts have had vibration problems in the past and it usually is noticed at around 55 mph. Usually a new driveshaft cures the problem.

they might want to rotate the wheels front to back to see if the problem ceases also.
Author:  gypsygirl [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well, they "resurfaced" the front rotors and the service guy is taking my vehicle home with him... again... to see if that fixed it. If not, they ordered new brake calipers for it that will be in tomorrow. I told him that if the rotors are the problem (which I asked them to check a couple weeks ago, but the tech didn't feel it necessary) I want fresh ones, not 'repaired parts on my new vehicle.' He told me 'ok' as long as the service manager approves it.

Darby, thanks for the response. Looks like they're going with the rotors/calipers route you suggested. I'm not real knowledgeable on brake systems. The wheel bearing assembly is seperate from that, right?

But actually, it seems they ignore my input anyway...
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wouldn't completely rule out the tires either. Lots have folks here have found that these tires are tough to keep balanced and tend to ride rough.
Author:  gypsygirl [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Another sad update. :(

Well, I picked up the Jeep last Thursday night. I called during the day and the "service advisor" said the service manager said for him to not bother driving it home without the new calipers. He said they replaced the brake calipers and rotors... and from the smell during the drive home, I'm assuming the pads as well. He said that the front right caliper wasn't releasing completely and had heated the rotors to the point where they were now warped. He said that "when it was on the shelf, the caliper was so tight they couldn't even turn it."

Whatever... I was optimistic.

Picked it up with no fuel and they'd put 100 miles on it test driving it. Again, whatever, that can be easily corrected. I was still optimistic.

Well, I put close to 100 miles on it on Saturday. It's definitely still not fixed. I was going to give it a couple days before I called again, but the service manager called me Saturday to apologize for leaving me with an empty fuel tank. I'm bringing it in Friday morning to do a test ride with him to show him I'm not stupid and that a vehicle isn't supposed to drive like this. He seems to think that they corrected the problem and now I'm just not used to how a Liberty should drive...

Well, I'm starting to look into Lemon Laws. I really don't want to do it because I know I won't find another new CRD, but if they can't fix this, I won't be able to keep it like this. Yesterday the vibrations were so unbearable that my foot was actually uncomfortable on the gas pedal (and I already barely hold the steering wheel). :(
Author:  RTStabler51 [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
turning a warped rotor is only a band aid on warped rotors. Make sure they stick new ones on there for you!
Author:  KenJennings [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
gypsygirl wrote:
Well, they "resurfaced" the front rotors and the service guy is taking my vehicle home with him... again... to see if that fixed it. If not, they ordered new brake calipers for it that will be in tomorrow. I told him that if the rotors are the problem (which I aske...

They're not fixing the problem, because the service tech wants to keep driving his new CRD loaner. ;-)
Author:  gypsygirl [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
RTStabler51 wrote:
turning a warped rotor is only a band aid on warped rotors. Make sure they stick new ones on there for you!


They SAID they did. After I got the call saying they resurfaced the rotor, I called back and said that if they wanted to test drive it like that, that was ok. But I do not want repaired parts on my new vehicle so I'll want brand new rotors. The service advisor said that was fine and that they would be new rotors when I picked it up.
Author:  gypsygirl [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
KenJennings wrote:
They're not fixing the problem, because the service tech wants to keep driving his new CRD loaner. ;-)


I thought that same thing... especially when I picked it up and they didn't even put any fuel in it after putting 100 miles on it. But believe me, that thing is not pleasant to drive when it starts shaking. :(
Author:  KJMedic [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
My guess would be the tires but I would not rule out the front susp.
Author:  gypsygirl [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
KJMedic wrote:
My guess would be the tires but I would not rule out the front susp.


By "the tires," do you mean the balance? Or something else?
Author:  crdmike [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Take it to a Goodyear factory tire shop and let them perform a dianosis. Make sure and test drive with the store Manager. I bet you have a bad tire.

Good Luck
Author:  KJMedic [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
gypsygirl wrote:
KJMedic wrote:
My guess would be the tires but I would not rule out the front susp.


By "the tires," do you mean the balance? Or something else?


Could be the balance or a busted cord in the tread. Wheel could be off balance also. But with the history of the stock goodyear tires I would bet on the tire itself.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Took me a while to find it because there were so many entries for vibration - however MudTrac got to test 3 pairs of standard tires before the dealer gave him a set of MTR's

I think that's the issue (however a couple of the threads did have u joint/driveshaft issues also - so there are some valid mechanical issues too)

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=5693&highlight=vibration

I just realized - his was lowspeed vibration - the folks who mentioned high speed - were more in the u joint category
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=774&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=vibration&start=0
Author:  no-blue-screen [ Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:17 am ]
Post subject: 
It's sad to hear this issue still isn't corrected. Are there any noticable dimples or bulges in the sidewalls of your tires? Also, as others have mentioned you may try to talk them into giving you a free rotation and balance. Keep on them to get it fixed and let us know what happens.
Author:  RFCRD [ Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:21 am ]
Post subject: 
At the speed ranges you give for this vibration (50-55 mph), are you sure this isn't a torque converter lock-up clutch problem? This sounds like a true case of transmission shudder or another drivetrain mechanical problem (transfer case, differential, u-joint, etc...). Don't be surprised by what you might see. I needed t-case seals replaced within the first 5000 miles. Did they unpdate all the engine & transmission software (TSB 18-023-06) and F-31 recall when you bought the Jeep?
Author:  no-blue-screen [ Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:07 am ]
Post subject: 
RFCRD wrote:
At the speed ranges you give for this vibration (50-55 mph), are you sure this isn't a torque converter lock-up clutch problem? This sounds like a true case of transmission shudder or another drivetrain mechanical problem (transfer case, differential, u-joint, etc...). Don't be surprised by what you might see. I needed t-case seals replaced within the first 5000 miles. Did they unpdate all the engine & transmission software (TSB 18-023-06) and F-31 recall when you bought the Jeep?


Probably not the shudder problem since she states that she took it up to 80 and it didn't "smooth out". What she is talking about is exactly what mine was doing before they replaced both the front rotors. The steering wheel would shimmy so violetly that it would shake the heck out of my arm and this is when I would have my left arm resting on the driver side window sill and the left hand holding the wheel.

IIRC, I read in another thread that they had problems with the drive-shaft being out of balance so that may be another place to look since they already replaced the rotors. I did state in a previous post that the wheel could be out of balance, but I don't think that is the case after re-reading her first post. Usually when the wheels are out of balance, you will have a shake between certain speeds that will go away once you are out of that speed range.

So unfortunately, it looks like something a little more serious at this point.
Author:  RFCRD [ Tue Oct 24, 2006 10:14 am ]
Post subject: 
no-blue-screen wrote:
RFCRD wrote:
At the speed ranges you give for this vibration (50-55 mph), are you sure this isn't a torque converter lock-up clutch problem? This sounds like a true case of transmission shudder or another drivetrain mechanical problem (transfer case, differential, u-joint, etc...). Don't be surprised by what you might see. I needed t-case seals replaced within the first 5000 miles. Did they unpdate all the engine & transmission software (TSB 18-023-06) and F-31 recall when you bought the Jeep?


Probably not the shudder problem since she states that she took it up to 80 and it didn't "smooth out". What she is talking about is exactly what mine was doing before they replaced both the front rotors. The steering wheel would shimmy so violetly that it would shake the heck out of my arm and this is when I would have my left arm resting on the driver side window sill and the left hand holding the wheel.

IIRC, I read in another thread that they had problems with the drive-shaft being out of balance so that may be another place to look since they already replaced the rotors. I did state in a previous post that the wheel could be out of balance, but I don't think that is the case after re-reading her first post. Usually when the wheels are out of balance, you will have a shake between certain speeds that will go away once you are out of that speed range.

So unfortunately, it looks like something a little more serious at this point.

Almost sounds like she's in the wrong forum. Sure she didn't buy an F150?
Author:  gypsygirl [ Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
no-blue, thanks for clarifying for me while I was away from the computer all day... you're not the first to mention the drive shaft, so I might do some more research into that before I meet with the service manager on friday.

RFCRD wrote:
Almost sounds like she's in the wrong forum. Sure she didn't buy an F150?


And funny you should say that because my friend just got a diesel 2500HD Silverado... and we were discussing over the weekend that that thing drives WAY smoother than my Liberty!
Author:  RFCRD [ Tue Oct 24, 2006 11:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
gypsygirl wrote:
no-blue, thanks for clarifying for me while I was away from the computer all day... you're not the first to mention the drive shaft, so I might do some more research into that before I meet with the service manager on friday.

RFCRD wrote:
Almost sounds like she's in the wrong forum. Sure she didn't buy an F150?


And funny you should say that because my friend just got a diesel 2500HD Silverado... and we were discussing over the weekend that that thing drives WAY smoother than my Liberty!

Well, mine is about one problem away from becoming a Silverado. Do you know that my 10 yr old, full size Chevy pick-up is less expensive to run given the price differential with diesel fuel? If it weren't for getting screwed on the sales taxes in Ohio for trading-in a vehicle it would probably be gone by now.
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