Compass-going nowhere

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

I saw a Jeep Compass on the road today for the first time. The sharp angular styling did not work for the toyota matrix, pontiac vibe (same car), or pontiac/buick aztec-rendezvous. Why does DCX think a vehicle with copycat styling of those vehicles will work for them?

Just my humble opinion, but if I were the exec in charge of Compass I would not expect much of a xmas bonus this year.

Bovie · **Posted:** Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:45 pm

anyone know if the compass is based on another car. Or is it a all new chassis?

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:59 pm

vtdog wrote:

I saw a Jeep Compass on the road today for the first time. The sharp angular styling did not work for the toyota matrix, pontiac vibe (same car), or pontiac/buick aztec-rendezvous. Why does DCX think a vehicle with copycat styling of those vehicles will work for them?

Just my humble opinion, but if I were the exec in charge of Compass I would not expect much of a xmas bonus this year.

Yeah, I would agree about the poor sucker that got stuck with this car program. I think that even as a limited run the Jeep Gladiator would have beat the pants off the Compass. The Compass is an embarrassment to Jeep and it's designers.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:01 pm

I will say that the Compass Front End looks better than the Caliber Front End (looks like an old Chrysler Van). It will probably take a bit for them to take off, but I remember how fast I started seeing Libertys on the road after they came out.

I think they should have made a "Rally Version" with AWD and the better engine in the upgraded one that only comes in 2WD. It could have had an "AirBag Suspension" like the VW Toureg that could give 2" or so lift for Jeep Trails ect. (not hardcore...more rally type roads). Of course I also think they should have badged them Willys instead of Jeep.

I do tend to remember the ad with the Bobleheads everytime I see one...so the ad is sticking in my mind.

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:00 pm

I pulled up behind one a week back and my wife thought it look nice and noticed that it had AWD. As most woman that drives the Liberty goes to the Compass we could see the death of the Liberty instead. Majority rules!

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Sep 19, 2006 3:24 pm

Well "the original" Liberty is done with 2006...the new square Jeeps are here...Commander, Liberty, Patriot...funny that the Wrangler is becoming a "little" more curvacious in it's old age.

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:59 pm

DarbyWalters wrote:

Well "the original" Liberty is done with 2006...the new square Jeeps are here...Commander, Liberty, Patriot...funny that the Wrangler is becoming a "little" more curvacious in it's old age.

Errrr........2007 right? 2006 only for CRD.

dodgeramvan · **Joined:** Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:39 am **Posts:** 19

compass based on same platform as dodge caliber, either front wheel drive or all-wheel-driive. Jeeps first venture without a real 4wd option. :cry:

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

I wasn't commenting on any of the mechanics of the compass (of which I know nothing), just the copycat use of exterior styling that has already failed for two other car companies. It just seems crazy to me.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

vtdog wrote:

I saw a Jeep Compass on the road today for the first time. The sharp angular styling did not work for the toyota matrix, pontiac vibe (same car), or pontiac/buick aztec-rendezvous. Why does DCX think a vehicle with copycat styling of those vehicles will work for them?

Just my humble opinion, but if I were the exec in charge of Compass I would not expect much of a xmas bonus this year.

They styled it this way because the vp was a tool of the fashion car industry-- these people have been pushing this awful style as the next thing forever-- See the older plastic Z71, the Honda Element, ect. With the exception of the pilot and element it has been a dismal failure. It looks like crap-- you can also see its influence on the new Tahoe/Suburban (more plastic crap and fake rivets molded into the bumpers).

And the exec... well he went to Micro$oft. Good Ridance. Can only hope he does to Windows what he did to the Compass. The Compass is to Jeep what the "Freestyle" was to LandRover.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:12 pm

Cowcatcher wrote:

DarbyWalters wrote:

Well "the original" Liberty is done with 2006...the new square Jeeps are here...Commander, Liberty, Patriot...funny that the Wrangler is becoming a "little" more curvacious in it's old age.

Errrr........2007 right? 2006 only for CRD.

Errrr...........no...no more cute utes

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Some general comments on Jeep's styling.

Ever since the VP in the Chrysler styling department retired a few years back, the newer Jeep model looks have avalanced downhill, imo. Style is very subjective - this is just my reaction to their latest attempts. Grand Cherokee for 05 was my first signal that something was wrong - really wrong with the style division at Chrysler. A mixture of boxy, angular and rounded hood just didn't fit, didn't flow and looked cheap. One look inside and the interior by Walmart gray plastic convinced me that death by a thousand bad designs and even worse textured plastics were in store for Jeep if this trend continued.

So when the Commander came out, I looked at it and thought it looked worse than the GC. When the GC sales were disapointing for Jeep, I thought they might run a crash root cause analysis on what happened, but apparently not, because Commander looks like someone took a boombox and welded it to a chassis. Again, sales were dissapointing for Jeep, so what do they do? They redesign the Liberty for 08 with something that appears to look as bad as the Commander, as far as I can tell from the spy pictures. Again, style is extremely subjective, but I honestly do not see a single Jeep vehicle in the new lineup that I would buy because of bad style and cheap looking interiors. Is there a do not terminate styling VP's policy at Chrysler?

So from Jeep News, I find this bit of news regarding the now cancelled Jeep Pickup:

"Consumers are turning to cars and car-based sport-utility vehicles instead of compact pickups, and that segment is likely where Chrysler wants to concentrate limited financial resources, said Art Spinella, president of CNW Marketing Research Inc. in Bandon, Ore.

“The market for that type of vehicle [compact pickup] is really small,” he said.

Mr. Spinella said the Detroit-made Jeep Commander has not sold well, and Chrysler is rethinking the Jeep brand, which is getting two car-based models built in Illinois this year." Bold emphasis added by myself.

So at what point of declining sales does Jeep ask themselves what they're doing wrong? If they would bring back the 2004 style Grand Cherokee, I'd even take a chance on one of their CRD models, just because of the looks. Not a good way of buying a vehicle, but I always liked the look of the GC until 05.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

Quote:

The market for that type of vehicle [compact pickup] is really small,” he said.

I don't know about that, Toyota sells a hell of alot of Tacoma pick ups. In fact the only problem I had with mine is that it would not die. I had well over 150k on it and it still ran strong. Maybe general "quality" has something to do with sales beyond just styling

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

I think my assessment is that Jeep caused their slumping sales with their own mistakes, then when faced with the results, starts to "rethink the brand." I don't buy the fuel economy argument alone - it helps, but look at sales of Toyotas FJ and Nissans 4X4. Jeep has gravitated toward a mixture of lower ground clearance, less off road capable, more carlike vehicles, bland to goofy looking styling, yet they don't compete well in the crossover market arena either. Look at the crossover SUV market - Mazda with their new vehicle, Acura with theirs, both state of the art, good to great looks - direct injection gasolene engine on the Mazda, turbo charged 4 on the Acura - tremendous sales appeal. Jeep has the Compass - which tested as a failure on the sales appeal very recently with the panel from the Detroit Free Press, a group of ordinary people assembled to drive new vehicles and rate it on various criteria, including whether they would recommend it to a friend to buy and whether they would buy one themselves - on the latter it was a solid no on 10 out of 10. Their gasolene V6 engine strategy is a decade behind the japanese in terms of design, effiiciency and overall emissions - look at the 3.8 V6 in the new wrangler - slow, low tech, and due to be replaced in 2010 with their new phoenix V6 shows up. What does that tell a prospective buyer - engine is stop gap, wait 4 model years and see if the new engine is any good.

It almost looks as if Jeep has no real car people working in management. They need to wake up fast - real fast. This situation can be fixed with some good looking body styles, some great interiors, some really good engines and no more boomboxes.

KJbob · **Posted:** Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:05 am

Ranger1 wrote:

It almost looks as if Jeep has no real car people working in management. They need to wake up fast - real fast. This situation can be fixed with some good looking body styles, some great interiors, some really good engines and no more boomboxes.

I'm starting to get concerned that Jeep does have some real car people in management (not Jeep people).

I've always purchase Jeeps because of the individuality and ruggedness the brand supposedly stood for. I've tolerated relatively poor fuel mileage, lower than average quality (although I never had any major issues), and horrible depreciation rates. If Jeep really wants to compete in the car market, I hope they don't do it at the expense of their core group.

The Compass does not impress me.

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:52 am

There is no American automotive group that puts their off-road vehicles to the test as Jeep owners do. Additionally, there is no other American automotive group that modifies and improves rigs as Jeepster's.
We really have a stake in this brand whether as dealerships, enthusiasts or owners to guide DCX in producing products that are in line with our desires as consumers.

The muscle car era of the 60's had dealership involvement and owners tuning, modifying and providing feedback back to the manufacturer. There has not been such a tight bond with American brand owners, brand loyalty and manufacturer's since then.
We see some of that collaboration being successfully executed in the Japanese imports arena with tuners, SEMA....etc.
IMHO, one of many reasons we are getting designs like the Compass is because we don't have this active product engagement anymore with the consumer.

We are getting designs delivered to us based on what DCX "thinks" we as Jeep owners want as opposed to us directing the Jeep brand with our dollars and active involvement in guiding DCX/Jeep.
Of course, Jeep has to provide some products that are mass appeal/mainstream but the core Jeep brand could be improved if the value of customer involvement thorugh dealerships, aftermarket and a unifed Jeep consumer lobby were listened to.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

I agree with much of what dzl said. In fact the CRD is a good example of that logic. For me, no crd=no jeep purchase. Jeep made a vehicle that fit my needs and I bought it. If there were not crd I would have kept my xterra and got an econobox of some type, or maybe purchased a different suv with a better reputation for quality. If jeep, or for that matter anyother car manuf. does not make what i want, i vote with my feet by walking out the dealership.

"Diluting" the brand by making a more mass appeal vehicle (i.e. compass) only hurts the brand as the association with "rugged" type vehicles will be lost and the core buyers will look elsewhere. In the long run its a lose/lose proposition for jeep as thier mass market car does not have enough appeal to compete with other brands so as to offset the loss of the "uniqueness" of the jeep brand for core buyers.

Look at it this way, will the "typical" 20 yo buyer of a wrangler shop where he bumps into mom and her kids looking for a "family" car. I personally dont think so.

Pablo · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:06 pm **Posts:** 1201

What is worse is that this is coming at a time where Jeep is starting to get some serious competition from Toyota and H3 and maybe the H4. The FJ is not my CRD, but it is nice. Throw in a trouble free diesel, fix the door pillar-- add two rear doors and it is a comparable CRD replacement. Add in Toyota dealer service instead of DC's Freddy Krugar 5 star service department and it would be a hard thing for me to refuse.

Chrysler has never competed well on quality. The one thing they have always had is style and power/features. Which would you rather have-- a 300 hemi or a Toyota Camry? No question as to which you would rather be seen in or push the accelerator pedal down on. But also no question on which you would rather maintain. If Jeep looses its capability advantage, and thus its image (Jeep's style equivalence)-- they will have no leg to stand on.

Some might say a bright spot of hope is the new JK. Besides the stop gap engine, it improves its core feature set-- it is more capable and has a 4-door option with a locking compartment. I think they did well with it.

But the JK is not the real deal when it comes to sales-- it is the Liberty that has sold. If they are thinking the Compass is going to take its place-- the sales numbers ought to show them better. The Patriot will not be the main money maker either-- it is too small for the mommie SUV crowd. It is not going to be liked by the Jeep faithfull either. They may appreciate its XJ styling but will be repulsed to puking at it sharing a framework with the Caliber. That leaves as potential Patriot buyers only first time buyers who are excited about Jeeps but are too poor to buy a Wrangler or Liberty and too stupid to buy something used. That, I am afraid, is not a big market for the Patriot.

The new Liberty (KK) is what is going to break or make Jeep's sales numbers. Liberty is where the sales numbers have been and it has been Jeep's bread and butter since it was introduced. And this is where they could screw up the worst. DC's problem is that DC's bean counters have convinced them to buy into "rebadging" a single product for each product line to save costs. This works sometimes-- when there is still enough differentiation between the products-- such as Mercedes and Chrysler. But when there is no product differentiation between the product lines: except for marketing drivel and hood badges, it fails miserably.

This is the story with the new Caliber/Compass, and potentially the new Liberty/Nitro. They are the same thing with different panels and headlights and that lessens the desirablity in the premier product line. Premier being, in this case, Jeep. So soccer mommies are just going to buy the Nitro and skip the Liberty all-together. Anyone here want a Lincoln Zephyr (based on the Focus)? Or how about those new 4.0 Jaguars that look like Ford Taurus'es? Or how about the new Saab coupe that looks just like the Chevy Imapla it was based on? Or how about the LandRover FreeStyle that looks like the CR-V-- complete with crappy half-shaft driven rear wheels (In a LandRover, no less!)? My guess is not too many people want any of these.

After that takes its toll on the new Liberty-- then the 4-wheel crowd will have its turn. The new Liberty will be expected to compete head to head with the FJ/H3 in the trade press. If the KK is not better on the trail than the FJ and H3-- then it will be roasted by all the 4-wheel crowd. If is not better than the Nitro but costs more or the same, then it will be doubly roasted and Jeep will be viewed as a sell-out. The trade rags will just tell you to buy the Dodge.

So things are not looking good unless that KK hits a home run on style and on capability. On a bright note, the spy pics indicate it is mainly in the right direction. Loose the stupid spare under the body, fix the departure angle, get aftermarket support on board, and don't do those things with the Dodge Nitro and violla-- you have capability and product differentiation! Is anyone in DC land listening?

bhysjulien · **Posted:** Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:11 am

No, they're not. If they were the transmission and EGR problems would be fixed by now. We'd also have a diesel Wrangler and Gladiator. If they were listening the Rescue would be a reality. We just buy the products and that doesn't mean that we know anything about them. I think the Jeep empoyees should do what the Harley employees did. Buy the company and save it from a slow corporate bean counting death.

Dutchy · **Posted:** Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:22 am

You guys are right!

I'm afraid that the Compass with a similar front as the KJ will pull down the KJ's image.
I.

I don't mind the Compass not beiing a real 4x4, I know in today's market you have to have a soft roader (see Landrover with the Freeloader), but why oh why has this thing to look like a clown- car and why has it a KJ front?

Compass-going nowhere

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