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-30C No Start
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=16463		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Inet_CRD [ Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:  -30C No Start
It's my own fault, but had to leave the thing parked outside at the airport, no plug in, for two days. Got back after overnight lows of -32C, tried to start, and no go. Interestingly enough, the glow light only stayed on for 2 seconds. It made no difference if cranked right after the light went off (2 seconds) or waited for 10-15 seconds after light off. Some members suggest that the glow plugs will actually stay on after the light goes off for up to 15 seconds. However, I'm pretty sure the issue wasn't with the glow plugs but more with the starter/battery unable to crank the engine fast enough. If you kept cranking it for about 7-8 seconds it would go into a kind of starter assisted running mode, but would not catch and keep running. So lessons learned:

1. Chrysler roadside assistance: Very happy! I could actually get through to them, where as AMA was nothing but a fast busy signal due to the extreme cold weather. Chysler was willing to tow the vehicle to my house so I could put back into my heated garage instead of insisting it go to a Stealership. I didn't even have wait with the vehicle, so I took a cab home to warm up.
2. If it's going to be -30C and you have to park outside, be sure to use 0-30W motor oil!!! :oops: I normally have access to heated parking so I left in the 5-40W synthetic. I'm pretty sure it would have started if I had been running 0-30W synthetic.
3. If it doesn't start after the first two tries in artic weather, it won't. Don't waste your time or battery power, get it into a heated shelter or find a plug in and use the block heater.

Not sure what other folks are experiencing in this artic weather, but that's my two cents.

PS - After two hours in a heated garage it started and ran without problem.
Author:  Spowers [ Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
Dang that cold!
I vote for going back to the airport and flying someplace warm - say V. Islands, untill it warms up enough in Ca. to start :D
Author:  Inet_CRD [ Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
LOL - too true. I was actually getting back from 'chilly' Northern Alberta where it was -38C overnight and one of the worst blizzards in years!
Author:  dgeist [ Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wonder if the airport had a receptacle nearby and an extension cord to connect the block heater and also if that would have worked had you given it 30 mins or so....

Perhaps it's not worth finding out in that kind of cold... My sense of perspective is a bit skewed since it's 58 degrees currently where I live.
Author:  railguy [ Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
At -30 degrees (Farenheit or Celsius), a lot of vehicles are going to have trouble starting. The battery, in particular, must be in top condition. Diesels do have a harder time of it because they are trying to fire on compression. My CRD seems to start OK to about -20 F. without being plugged in. Last night it was about -10, and I had the block heater on for about 2 hours immediately before starting it. It started fine and warmed up quickly. Unless it is REALLY cold, I don't see the need to leave it plugged in all night.

Inet_CRD mentioned his CRD running in "starting/running" mode with the starter "assisting" the engine. This is common with diesels. If he had done this long enough--very hard on starters, admittedly--the engine would have probably developed enough heat in the combustion chambers to begin runniing on its own. I've seen a lot of tractors and backhoes started this way in very cold weather. Then there's ether starting fluid (which I don't recommend--real easy to blow a cylinder head or crack a piston). It detonates much more readily than diesel fuel and can get the engine firing. I think Jeep says never to use it--I would consider it only as a last resort if I absolutely had to get the vehicle running. It can be really hard on engines. With the old diesel Caterpillar dozers (especially the really old ones that used a 2-cycle gasoline "pony" engine as a starter--I'm dating myself here), there was always a can of ether rattling around on the seat or in the tool box to use to help the thing started.
Author:  dgeist [ Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
railguy wrote:
At -30 degrees (Farenheit or Celsius), a lot of vehicles are going to have trouble starting. The battery, in particular, must be in top condition. Diesels do have a harder time of it because they are trying to fire on compression. My CRD seems to start OK to about -20 F. without being plugged in. Last night it was about -10, and I had the block heater on for about 2 hours immediately before starting it. It started fine and warmed up quickly. Unless it is REALLY cold, I don't see the need to leave it plugged in all night.


So perhaps a block warmer AND a nice (already-running) vehicle with some heavy-guage jumper cables would be better :P
Author:  litton [ Fri Jan 12, 2007 6:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
Several years ago I was doing some work near a place called Cold Lake in nothern Alberta.....and it was cold. -47 whether it's in F or C is still cold. The hotel parking lot was filled with diesel pickups that never shut the engine off, just idled all night. On chap that I worked with said his pickup had not been shut off for a month.

Now those guys wouldn't have been fooling this old Arizona boy would they. However that said, my Hertz Taurus started right up each morning without plugging in.
Author:  vtdog [ Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
-30C=-22F
Although I have started at -12F (-24C) without fuel additives I would use some type of anti-gel below -20F (-29C). I suspect that the -30c is just low enough for non-starting.
Author:  RFCRD [ Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: -30C No Start
Inet_CRD wrote:
It's my own fault, but had to leave the thing parked outside at the airport, no plug in, for two days. Got back after overnight lows of -32C, tried to start, and no go.

That's you sign, get back on the airplane and go someplace habitable.

At those temps your fuel would be on the verge of turning into butter. Sometimes at temps that low even the best diesels need a snort of ether to motivate them to start. Always keep a can under the seat and pray that I don't ever need it.
Author:  onthehunt [ Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
I wouldn't use ether on this engine. Fragile glow plugs,and an aluminum head. Not to mention the danger of using ether on a glow plug engine. You are asking for trouble.
Author:  RFCRD [ Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
onthehunt wrote:
I wouldn't use ether on this engine. Fragile glow plugs,and an aluminum head. Not to mention the danger of using ether on a glow plug engine. You are asking for trouble.

I suppose I should remind those who are inexperienced with diesels and ether that it is easy to blow your engine apart with ether/starting fluid. What is interesting about the CRD is it would be difficult to use without tools and almost impossible for a mechanical novice to figure out.
Author:  McMoney [ Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:56 am ]
Post subject: 
I found out the hard way also that it will take some doing to start at -30. I did it one morning and after about 20 seconds of starter assisted running it finally went, on its own. Just got the owners manual and it says you can run the starter for 25 seconds. Easier to plug it in if you can.
Author:  redcrd [ Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:12 am ]
Post subject: 
Is it normal for our CRD's or maybe any diesel engine, to shake a little and emit a hammering against metal sound when started up in temps below freezing, and go away after it warms up for a few minutes? This happened to me last year on a trip to Pennsylvania, my CRD sat for 2 days in 20-25 degree F temps, when I started my truck, and heard those sounds I wanted to shut it off, I didnt know if it was normal or not. Being that I'm in Florida we don't get temps below freezing so it was kinda a new experience and this is my first diesel.
Author:  RFCRD [ Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:20 am ]
Post subject: 
redcrd wrote:
Is it normal for our CRD's or maybe any diesel engine, to shake a little and emit a hammering against metal sound when started up in temps below freezing, and go away after it warms up for a few minutes? This happened to me last year on a trip to Pennsylvania, my CRD sat for 2 days in 20-25 degree F temps, when I started my truck, and heard those sounds I wanted to shut it off, I didnt know if it was normal or not. Being that I'm in Florida we don't get temps below freezing so it was kinda a new experience and this is my first diesel.

Oh the joy of a cold diesel. That is normal on the CRD, many other diesels rattle more in the cold. You should hear your CRD when it's been cold-soaked to @ zero, sounds like the rods are coming out the side.
Author:  Got Diesel [ Sat Jan 13, 2007 12:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have been in Denver in the mountains and I I added PS and 1 gallon of kero, She started all the time no matter HOW cold.
Author:  Drewd [ Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
Why is ether so bad? I know that older 18 wheel trucks had ether injection to help with cold starts. I'm thinking that if you only use a little (very short squirt), it could only help. Too much could cause a runaway problem I suppose.

I also heard that ether can cause some glow plugs to swell and make removing them difficult. Any truth to this?
Author:  RFCRD [ Sat Jan 13, 2007 2:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Drewd wrote:
Why is ether so bad? I know that older 18 wheel trucks had ether injection to help with cold starts. I'm thinking that if you only use a little (very short squirt), it could only help. Too much could cause a runaway problem I suppose.

I also heard that ether can cause some glow plugs to swell and make removing them difficult. Any truth to this?

It's a problem if used in excessive amounts. It can be a problem with glow plug equipped engines because it can prematurely ignite when it contacts the hot glow plugs. There are ways to safely use ether but it takes experience. The key with glow plugs is to use it as a last resort after attempting to crank the engine allowing oil to circulate. Use only in very small amounts (just enough to start the fire), especially if introduced past the intercooler. The swelling glow plugs is a myth.
Author:  greiswig [ Sat Jan 13, 2007 5:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
My Unimog (no glow plugs, direct injection) has this little gizmo that is mounted in the cab, called the "Starter Pilote." You fill a reservoir with a Benz-approved starter fluid (ether and a lubricant, I believe), and there are very specific instructions for how to use the system. Crank the engine, and once it is turning on starter power, push the plunger on the Starter Pilote once. It injects a carefully metered amount of the vapor into the intake stream, and helps things along.

I've never had to use it, and have started the engine at 10F without much of an issue. But the PNW isn't a very cold region this close to the coast.
Author:  Bovie [ Sat Jan 13, 2007 7:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mine started fine at 10F thought it had to crank for 2-3 sec and the first 10-15 sec of running it was REALLY loud and you could def tell it was a diesel. Anything above 20F it's starts the exact same as it does at 50F.
Author:  Marlon_JBT [ Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Bovie wrote:
Mine started fine at 10F thought it had to crank for 2-3 sec and the first 10-15 sec of running it was REALLY loud and you could def tell it was a diesel. Anything above 20F it's starts the exact same as it does at 50F.

Mine doesn't...

I haven't started it under 20ºF... it hasn't gotten that cold here, but around 50ºF - 70ºF, it sounds the same. Anything above that, it sounds pretty quiet. Barely any loud knocking.
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