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Who Wants A Better Fuel Filter Thats Cheaper To Replace?
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Author:  LanduytG [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:58 am ]
Post subject:  Who Wants A Better Fuel Filter Thats Cheaper To Replace?
We are looking into being able to adapt a Cat 2 micron fuel filter onto the CRD. It would give you a filter with not only better filter media but would do a better job of filtering, last longer and be cheaper to replace than the OEM. Cat is not the only thing we will be looking at. The big thing is the water in fuel sensor most likely will not be able to be used. Its not really a problem because in 20+ years of driving a diesel I have only seen water once and the filter needed changing anyway. The Cat filter is the same filter we are using on the VW TDI and we have about 1,000 systems in use so its been a proven system.

Greg
Author:  no-blue-screen [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Greg, if you can't use the existing WIF sensor, then doesn't that mean that our WIF lights will be lit all the time? I am all for better filtration in a lower cost filter, but I like having the WIF sensor just in case I somehow get excessive water in my fuel.
Author:  LanduytG [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:15 am ]
Post subject: 
The WIF only sets the light when water is in contact with the probes.

Greg
Author:  oldnavy [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:24 am ]
Post subject: 
no-blue-screen wrote:
Greg, if you can't use the existing WIF sensor, then doesn't that mean that our WIF lights will be lit all the time? I am all for better filtration in a lower cost filter, but I like having the WIF sensor just in case I somehow get excessive water in my fuel.
Believe me if you get water in the fuel you will know it when the engine stops. :wink:

All kidding aside I have never had any problems with water over the years, only dirty fuel where someone dumped used motor oil into fuel bunker. I think the only people who have reported water in fuel on Fred's TDI forum has been the home brew fuel guys, and even there it was very few. When I saw the CRD had a water sensor my first reaction was to laugh and wonder why. Myself I would much rather have the Cat 2 micron absolute filter then the OEM we have that some have said is a 3 micron filter, but I don't think there was ever any proof. But even if it is a 3 micron filter I bet it is 10 to 20 micron absolute. Also the Cat filter was designed for a large displacement V8 diesel and would never have a flow rate problem on our 4 cyl hot-rod, I took one off my TDI with about 15,000 miles use and it was just about at a 1/3 of it's life cycle.

I think $11 filter being replaced every 20,000 to 30,000 miles would be well worth this upgrade and I will be in for one. The VW dealers that would see the upgrade filters were almost to a man for the upgrade and never gave owners a problem if I remember correctly. I know a VW rep saw mine and liked it and said it was far better then OEM.
Author:  LanduytG [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:28 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I think $11 filter being replaced every 20,000 to 30,000 miles would be well worth this upgrade and I will be in for one.


Walt
Those days are over. These have gone up 4 times in the last year. I now have to sell replacements for $20.

Greg
Author:  no-blue-screen [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:36 am ]
Post subject: 
oldnavy wrote:
no-blue-screen wrote:
Greg, if you can't use the existing WIF sensor, then doesn't that mean that our WIF lights will be lit all the time? I am all for better filtration in a lower cost filter, but I like having the WIF sensor just in case I somehow get excessive water in my fuel.
Believe me if you get water in the fuel you will know it when the engine stops. :wink:

All kidding aside I have never had any problems with water over the years, only dirty fuel where someone dumped used motor oil into fuel bunker. I think the only people who have reported water in fuel on Fred'd TDI forum has been the home brew fuel guys, and even there it was very few. When I saw the CRD had a water sensor my first reaction was to laugh and wonder why. Myself I would much rather have the Cat 2 micron absolute filter then the OEM we have that some have said is a 3 micron filter, but I don't think there was ever any proof. But even if it is a 3 micron filter I bet it is 10 to 20 micron absolute. Also the Cat filter was designed for a large displacement V8 diesel and would never have a flow rate problem on our 4 cyl hot-rod, I took one off my TDI with about 15,000 miles use and it was just about at a 1/3 of it's life cycle. I think $11 filter being replaced every 20,000 to 30,000 miles would be well worth this upgrade and I will be in for one. The VW dealers that would see the upgrade filters were almost to a man for the upgrade and never gave owners a problem if I remember correctly. I know a VW rep saw mine and liked it and said it was far better then OEM.


You make some very good points, but, what would happen with the WIF sensor? If it is no longer connected, wouldn't the WIF light be lit all the time? This would not be a huge issue, but certainly an annoyance.

I wonder if MrMopar64 would be able to shed some light on the micron rating of the OEM fuel filter.
Author:  ccattie [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:46 am ]
Post subject: 
I keep checking Gregs site and I dont see Jeep stuff. I work in a place where phone calls dont work well (a refinery so no phones allowed) so I want to buy stuff online. How do you get to his Jeep section?
-c
Author:  oldnavy [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:11 am ]
Post subject: 
LanduytG wrote:
Quote:
I think $11 filter being replaced every 20,000 to 30,000 miles would be well worth this upgrade and I will be in for one.


Walt
Those days are over. These have gone up 4 times in the last year. I now have to sell replacements for $20.

Greg
Ain't life wonderful, still $20 is far better then the $30+ the dealer gets for a fuel filter.

I forgot to mention that the local Dodge dealer has been seeing lots of fuel problem here local and some water problems, but it is only the Cummins trucks with fuel tanks in the beds of the truck as a general rule. Seems these guys don't have a disicant to absorbe moisture when the fuel just sits or even when tank is empty. However the small amount of water they are finding is not the real problem. The filters it seems are clogging with bio growth from sitting too long in these tanks w/o being treated.

Bio growth is generally about the most common fuel problems with diesel fuel. Hot summer days and diesel stored above ground and not treated to prevent bio growth will become a problem, I think one or two here have had the little black dead stuff clogging their fuel filters. It can be a real problem with biodiesel that is not treated properly. That was why I think the old MB's had the small prefilter that would catch the stufff and be clearly visible while doing the filtering. Those filters could be easly replaced and would tell the tech if anything was wrong with the fuel and the tank needed cleaned.
Author:  oldnavy [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:17 am ]
Post subject: 
ccattie wrote:
I keep checking Gregs site and I dont see Jeep stuff. I work in a place where phone calls dont work well (a refinery so no phones allowed) so I want to buy stuff online. How do you get to his Jeep section?
-c
He hasn't started a Jeep section as yet most likely and if only doing Fumoto Valves, and fuel filters he may just use a general section of something. Anyway it is not ready for sale as yet.
Author:  LanduytG [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:59 am ]
Post subject: 
no-blue-screen wrote:
oldnavy wrote:
no-blue-screen wrote:
Greg, if you can't use the existing WIF sensor, then doesn't that mean that our WIF lights will be lit all the time? I am all for better filtration in a lower cost filter, but I like having the WIF sensor just in case I somehow get excessive water in my fuel.
Believe me if you get water in the fuel you will know it when the engine stops. :wink:

All kidding aside I have never had any problems with water over the years, only dirty fuel where someone dumped used motor oil into fuel bunker. I think the only people who have reported water in fuel on Fred'd TDI forum has been the home brew fuel guys, and even there it was very few. When I saw the CRD had a water sensor my first reaction was to laugh and wonder why. Myself I would much rather have the Cat 2 micron absolute filter then the OEM we have that some have said is a 3 micron filter, but I don't think there was ever any proof. But even if it is a 3 micron filter I bet it is 10 to 20 micron absolute. Also the Cat filter was designed for a large displacement V8 diesel and would never have a flow rate problem on our 4 cyl hot-rod, I took one off my TDI with about 15,000 miles use and it was just about at a 1/3 of it's life cycle. I think $11 filter being replaced every 20,000 to 30,000 miles would be well worth this upgrade and I will be in for one. The VW dealers that would see the upgrade filters were almost to a man for the upgrade and never gave owners a problem if I remember correctly. I know a VW rep saw mine and liked it and said it was far better then OEM.


You make some very good points, but, what would happen with the WIF sensor? If it is no longer connected, wouldn't the WIF light be lit all the time? This would not be a huge issue, but certainly an annoyance.

I wonder if MrMopar64 would be able to shed some light on the micron rating of the OEM fuel filter.



Will do with the WIF like I do on the Sprinter Vans. Leave it connected but use a couple of tie wraps to secure it somewhere.

Greg
Author:  chrismc [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd be good with a dead WIF sensor if we could get a separate drainable fuel/water separator... I had one of those on my Cummins Dodge, and did dump crap out of the bottom of it on several occasions. I'd check it every few fillups or so.
Author:  retmil46 [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd be interested. As far as the WIF sensor, with a Permacool water sep ahead of the factory filter, mine has little chance of seeing water anyway. And I drain it down once a month just to check for growies and see what type of crud the local stations are passing off as fuel, besides getting rid of any water it's caught.

I'd definitely be interested in something better than the factory POS.
Author:  KenJennings [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
no-blue-screen wrote:
You make some very good points, but, what would happen with the WIF sensor? If it is no longer connected, wouldn't the WIF light be lit all the time? This would not be a huge issue, but certainly an annoyance.
I'm sure we'll find out when the WIF sensor is tripped the computer will do something squirrelly that affects the EGR or Torque Converter operation and voids the warranty.
Author:  oldnavy [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
chrismc wrote:
I'd be good with a dead WIF sensor if we could get a separate drainable fuel/water separator... I had one of those on my Cummins Dodge, and did dump crap out of the bottom of it on several occasions. I'd check it every few fillups or so.
In all the fuel filters I have changed or seen changed on diesels over the years, I have only seen one with any water in the fuel and it wasn't enough to have even come close to blocking the filter and that filter was on a VW TDI with about 70,000 miles on it and the car and it had original fuel filter.

Me I would like to get rid of the OEM filter and the water sensor. Once the sensor is gone it would be a lot easier to change the filter topside, as that is only difficult thing about changing the filter is the removing and reinstalling the sensor.
Author:  chrismc [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
oldnavy wrote:
chrismc wrote:
I'd be good with a dead WIF sensor if we could get a separate drainable fuel/water separator... I had one of those on my Cummins Dodge, and did dump crap out of the bottom of it on several occasions. I'd check it every few fillups or so.
In all the fuel filters I have changed or seen changed on diesels over the years, I have only seen one with any water in the fuel and it wasn't enough to have even come close to blocking the filter and that filter was on a VW TDI with about 70,000 miles on it and the car and it had original fuel filter.

Me I would like to get rid of the OEM filter and the water sensor. Once the sensor is gone it would be a lot easier to change the filter topside, as that is only difficult thing about changing the filter is the removing and reinstalling the sensor.


What can I say... I'm a sucker for the cheap diesel. Haven't clogged a filter yet! :lol:
Author:  oldnavy [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
chrismc wrote:
What can I say... I'm a sucker for the cheap diesel. Haven't clogged a filter yet! :lol:
Good point then to use a cheaper but better filter.
Author:  vtdog [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
I remember that the Volvo diesels (yes they did sell them in the US-made by VW) had a filter with a drain in the bottom to get out the water. My old neighbor had a Volvo 740 turbo diesel and I saw him use the drain which was a simple thumb wheel, but no water came out.

I would consider a change only if the new filter had a drain that was easy to use
Author:  oldnavy [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
vtdog wrote:
I remember that the Volvo diesels (yes they did sell them in the US-made by VW) had a filter with a drain in the bottom to get out the water. My old neighbor had a Volvo 740 turbo diesel and I saw him use the drain which was a simple thumb wheel, but no water came out.

I would consider a change only if the new filter had a drain that was easy to use
You never saw any water come out of the neighbors fuel filter, but you want a water drain and/or water seperator??? That would be funny if it didn't sound so much like you have no idea what you are talking about and you are over your head with the tech aspect of the diesel engine and it fuel. I know I just offended you, I am sorry. I just do not know how else to say how stupid your statement sounds, I am just stupified by your logic or whatever you call the process that help you come to make that statement.
Author:  onthehunt [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
What's the cat filter number?? Is it a combo water seperator/filter? If it's not I won't use it.
Author:  Ripster [ Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
I am in, never drained my VW in 250,000 so whatever you decide. I can tie up the water connecter not a problem.
I have a few items modified anyway, improvements on design is the way I look at it.
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