LOST JEEPS :: View topic - F37 OMG WTF??...(oh, ATF)

Not the F37 fix for sure. Mine shifts so smoothly I can barely feel it.

Thanks for the heads-up on the tranny fluid level. I'll check that.

Oh, and thanks for the compliments on the description. Sorry to be so wordy, but I actually cut out about three paragraphs from my original venting description. :lol:

But the hole-shot has been newetered forever, and anyone who says theirs drives great with F-37 pre-installed at the factory never got to experience our rigs like we did. Some folks got it done and never noticed it because their driving habits are not like ours. I like to heavily accelerate from a stop, all the time, just can't help it.

dog_party wrote:

I have tried to tell people how a real pre-F37 CRD drove but most don't believe me. I had 11 months and 15,000 miles of driving pre-F37 and it was quite a shock after it was done.

The big difference here is that the reving to 2500rpm will never go away. I remember "back in the day" when you and I chatted about our new CRDs and how cool it was to have break-neck torque at 1500rpm - never again my friend.

Your delay in shifting will get shorter and the clunk may dissipate after the transmission "relearns" for a good 500 to 1000 miles - mine did.

But the hole-shot has been newetered forever, and anyone who says theirs drives great with F-37 pre-installed at the factory never got to experience our rigs like we did. Some folks got it done and never noticed it because their driving habits are not like ours. I like to heavily accelerate from a stop, all the time, just can't help it.

Feather foot drivers would have never noticed.

Mock-N is a good term for the experience, and mine is still there. The ORM has helped with lag. I still need to get to 2500rpms, but it gets there quicker.

Now the stalling and having to stand on the brakes at stop lights has not happened to me, but many, many others when their TQ or replacement TQ, or T-Pump was just about to fail.

I bought my 2005 CRD used and the F37 and TC replacement had already been done, so I guess what I don't know won't hurt me.

I bought the truck for a few reasons, and not one of them was accleration or speed. I tow a trailer from time to time, and I live in a hilly part of the country, so I wanted a vehicle that could tow my trailer effortlessly without fear of damaging the transmission or engine. I wanted a vehicle that had 4 doors, and was resonably comfortable. I wanted a "truck", but not a pickup since I don't have anything to haul in the bed. Then the coup de gras....I wanted somthing that wouldn't get awful fuel mileage. I've had a Ford Explorer V8 4X4 that got 14mpg in normal everyday driving. It SUCKED gas. When towing a trailer, get out the old wallet about every 200 miles and put in $60-$70 worth of fuel.

So, the CRD is an excellent compromise for me. Not as big and comfy as I'd like, but not bad. Not as fuel efficient as I'd like, but not bad. It's no Cummins TD with over 600lb/ft of torque, but my little 2000lb loaded trailer isn't going to tax the 2.8 motor at all. Heck, my wife's Honda Odyessy minivan pulls it just fine and it's only rated to tow 3500lbs with a tranny fluid cooler (which I'm assuming the CRD already has in order to tow 5000lbs).

So, the F37 mod robbed me of 7ft/lbs of torque. That comes out to 288ft/lbs at 1800rpm. That's still very healthy from a 4cyl engine displacing less that 3 liters. The couple that with 20+mpg around town and better than 25mpg on the highway, and I'd say you've got an impressive vehicle.

I've had my CRD for a week, which makes me nothing more than a newbie, but with just over 10,000 miles on it, the CRD runs, drives, and even smells like a new car. It is flawless so far. Time will reveal if it's a good little truck or not. It reminds me of a goat. Not fast, but can climb over anything.

Like to see a picture of that Cummins in the Suburban..... :wink:

Author:	dog_party [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:23 am ]
Post subject:	F37 OMG WTF??...(oh, ATF)
Okay, I got my truck back after the F37 operation and...well, let me qualify my report with all the details in case someone didn't read my "CRD Under The Knife" thread. I took the truck in for surgery last week. Needed: F37 Ball Joint Recall Undetermined Oil Leak Oil Change They called me 2.5 hours after I dropped it off and said, "We found your oil leak. We need to replace the turbo charger." They told me they'd need it for 5 days while waiting for the part. On Monday, they called me and said the turbo was on backorder, but that I could have my truck back. F37, ball-joint recall, and oil change were done. So I picked 'er up on Tuesday morning on the way to work. Climbed back in and realized how much I missed the little tractor. Started it up and just smiled at the rumble. I missed that. Put it in gear and gave it 3/4 throttle heading out onto the Boulevard and... OMG!! WTF?! Let me see if I can explain this. It went something like... 3/4 throttle, accelerate until tach gets to 2500 or so, then disengage 1st and begin the function that I will henceforth lovingly refer to as the "Shifting Process." This "Shifting Process" begins when the previous gear is disengaged. After that function is complete, it stays in what I can only call "Neutral" (which I'll call "Mock-N") while it performs the next function of the "Shifting Process" (which I assume to be "Hunting For The Next Gear," or HFNG). Since the accelerator pedal is still at 3/4 throttle while the TC is in mock-N, the engine speed increases dramatically while it is HFNG. After a moment of engine race, the TC finishes HFNG and slowly engages the next gear in a lovely, TC-saving CLUNK. In case anyone misread that, I would like to save you a call to the tech-support line by telling you that the moisture building on the inside of your monitor is actually caused by my dripping sarcasm. When I roll through a corner in downtown, I get back on the gas, but it's in Mock-N. It winds up the tach and then CLUNK it grabs the gear some time after the moment that I actually need it, causing me to get on the brakes right after the truck starts moving forward again. Oh, and the dang thing has stalled twice at traffic lights. I come to a stop at the traffic light and the truck wants to keep going. I don't know why it wants to keep going, I certainly don't. I gave it a while and didn't post my findings. "Maybe it's relearning my driving style" I said to myself. "Maybe it's just got to go through a learning curve." Maybe, just maybe, DCX has ruined my truck with their craptastic "fix." I called my service advisor last night and asked him what they did to my truck. He told me to bring it back in when I can. He said that he's had one before where the replacement TC was "broken." So maybe that's it. Or maybe the crappy behavior is due to the bad turbo. I can't see how the second is a possiblity, but I'm giving it everything I can. I love this truck, but I can't stand driving it anymore. If they fix my turbo and give it back to me and it is still acting like this, I will get rid of it. And I'll sue DCX for ruining my truck. This sucks.

Author:	BVCRD [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:31 am ]
Post subject:
More than likely, it is the service you received being sub-par. They may have even left the tranny fluid low. It's not the F37 by itself doing that. It needs help from a lame tech.

Author:	skywarn [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:36 am ]
Post subject:
WOW... i couldn't have said it better myself.... that is EXACTLY what mine did/is doing.... a "cheep & easy" fix... turn off your OD and do the ORM... there is hella snap at 50mph... but that doesn't do anything for us at a stop light.

Author:	Jeger [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:48 am ]
Post subject:
Wow, excellent description Check the tranny fluid and let us know where its at.

Author:	sbohner [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:48 am ]
Post subject:
This may be a case of "fixing" too many things at once. The risks of problems go up geometrically with the number of things being tinkered with. I would leave it with them until it drives right. Good luck!

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Author:	chadhargis [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:15 am ]
Post subject:
Not the F37 fix for sure. Mine shifts so smoothly I can barely feel it.

Author:	BVCRD [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:19 am ]
Post subject:
chadhargis wrote: Not the F37 fix for sure. Mine shifts so smoothly I can barely feel it. Yea, they screwed something up. Mine didn't qualify for the F37, but mine came from the factory with the F37 and it drives like a dream with all the power I need.

Author:	Endurance [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:43 am ]
Post subject:
Mine used to do almost the same thing, at least when trying to come to a stop. It would never disengage and almost stall. Well anyways, like I said so many times before THEY HARDLY PUT ANY TRANNY FLUID IN IT. The dipstick was bone dry, top to bottom. What a bunch of loosers.

Author:	dog_party [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:48 am ]
Post subject:
Thanks for the heads-up on the tranny fluid level. I'll check that. Oh, and thanks for the compliments on the description. Sorry to be so wordy, but I actually cut out about three paragraphs from my original venting description.

Author:	alljeep [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:46 am ]
Post subject:
dog_party wrote: Thanks for the heads-up on the tranny fluid level. I'll check that. Oh, and thanks for the compliments on the description. Sorry to be so wordy, but I actually cut out about three paragraphs from my original venting description. I have tried to tell people how a real pre-F37 CRD drove but most don't believe me. I had 11 months and 15,000 miles of driving pre-F37 and it was quite a shock after it was done. The big difference here is that the reving to 2500rpm will never go away. I remember "back in the day" when you and I chatted about our new CRDs and how cool it was to have break-neck torque at 1500rpm - never again my friend. Your delay in shifting will get shorter and the clunk may dissipate after the transmission "relearns" for a good 500 to 1000 miles - mine did. But the hole-shot has been newetered forever, and anyone who says theirs drives great with F-37 pre-installed at the factory never got to experience our rigs like we did. Some folks got it done and never noticed it because their driving habits are not like ours. I like to heavily accelerate from a stop, all the time, just can't help it. Feather foot drivers would have never noticed. Mock-N is a good term for the experience, and mine is still there. The ORM has helped with lag. I still need to get to 2500rpms, but it gets there quicker. Now the stalling and having to stand on the brakes at stop lights has not happened to me, but many, many others when their TQ or replacement TQ, or T-Pump was just about to fail.

Author:	RTStabler51 [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:55 am ]
Post subject:
alljeep wrote: But the hole-shot has been newetered forever, and anyone who says theirs drives great with F-37 pre-installed at the factory never got to experience our rigs like we did. Some folks got it done and never noticed it because their driving habits are not like ours. I like to heavily accelerate from a stop, all the time, just can't help it. I didn't notice it at first, but over the last month or so I've realized that the low-end has definitely been affected. However, my post-F37 towing performance got me past my F37 concerns as the performance there wasn't noticeably affected...and the Liberty isn't every going to be a rocket ship....

Author:	Marlon_JBT [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:
Heh, why is it so hard for dealerships to put the correct amount of fluid in the transmission? I know it's the cause of your stalling and probably the rest of the issues too.

Author:	BVCRD [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:
alljeep wrote: dog_party wrote: Thanks for the heads-up on the tranny fluid level. I'll check that. Oh, and thanks for the compliments on the description. Sorry to be so wordy, but I actually cut out about three paragraphs from my original venting description. I have tried to tell people how a real pre-F37 CRD drove but most don't believe me. I had 11 months and 15,000 miles of driving pre-F37 and it was quite a shock after it was done. The big difference here is that the reving to 2500rpm will never go away. I remember "back in the day" when you and I chatted about our new CRDs and how cool it was to have break-neck torque at 1500rpm - never again my friend. Your delay in shifting will get shorter and the clunk may dissipate after the transmission "relearns" for a good 500 to 1000 miles - mine did. But the hole-shot has been newetered forever, and anyone who says theirs drives great with F-37 pre-installed at the factory never got to experience our rigs like we did. Some folks got it done and never noticed it because their driving habits are not like ours. I like to heavily accelerate from a stop, all the time, just can't help it. Feather foot drivers would have never noticed. Mock-N is a good term for the experience, and mine is still there. The ORM has helped with lag. I still need to get to 2500rpms, but it gets there quicker. Now the stalling and having to stand on the brakes at stop lights has not happened to me, but many, many others when their TQ or replacement TQ, or T-Pump was just about to fail. You are right. I never drove a pre F37. I did drive a 3.7 gasser and the post F37 2006 (factory) CRD which I did buy was tons better than that so it was good enough for me like it was.

Author:	chadhargis [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:
I bought my 2005 CRD used and the F37 and TC replacement had already been done, so I guess what I don't know won't hurt me. I bought the truck for a few reasons, and not one of them was accleration or speed. I tow a trailer from time to time, and I live in a hilly part of the country, so I wanted a vehicle that could tow my trailer effortlessly without fear of damaging the transmission or engine. I wanted a vehicle that had 4 doors, and was resonably comfortable. I wanted a "truck", but not a pickup since I don't have anything to haul in the bed. Then the coup de gras....I wanted somthing that wouldn't get awful fuel mileage. I've had a Ford Explorer V8 4X4 that got 14mpg in normal everyday driving. It SUCKED gas. When towing a trailer, get out the old wallet about every 200 miles and put in $60-$70 worth of fuel. So, the CRD is an excellent compromise for me. Not as big and comfy as I'd like, but not bad. Not as fuel efficient as I'd like, but not bad. It's no Cummins TD with over 600lb/ft of torque, but my little 2000lb loaded trailer isn't going to tax the 2.8 motor at all. Heck, my wife's Honda Odyessy minivan pulls it just fine and it's only rated to tow 3500lbs with a tranny fluid cooler (which I'm assuming the CRD already has in order to tow 5000lbs). So, the F37 mod robbed me of 7ft/lbs of torque. That comes out to 288ft/lbs at 1800rpm. That's still very healthy from a 4cyl engine displacing less that 3 liters. The couple that with 20+mpg around town and better than 25mpg on the highway, and I'd say you've got an impressive vehicle. I've had my CRD for a week, which makes me nothing more than a newbie, but with just over 10,000 miles on it, the CRD runs, drives, and even smells like a new car. It is flawless so far. Time will reveal if it's a good little truck or not. It reminds me of a goat. Not fast, but can climb over anything.

Author:	msilbernagel [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:
Huh... we bought ours used last month, with just under 30k miles (2005 CRD). It hadn't had the recalls done, so we had it a day or so and then brought it back for the recalls (also) when the check-engine light came on (turns out - glow plugs, which they replaced). They did the F37 and ball-joints. F37 had some glow-plug life improvements, so I'm told... I haven't really noticed a difference, though I've only gone on a few test drives - Mama does most of the driving.. it's "hers". I've ridden with her a few times, and just asked how she likes it - we traded a 2.5L turbo Subaru legacy for it, so she's used to scooting right along. She loves it, likes the tight ride (country girl! likes trucks). Shifts nice, smoothly, when expected, and has plenty of get-up-and-go. I'm used to a 3/4 ton Suburban with a late-model Cummins turbo-diesel and 600 ft lbs of torque (6-speed). Because of it's weight (power to weight ratio), the little engine does well; I'm impressed with the CRD's acceleration. I've found nothing to complain about so far, really. It's tight as a drum; I was amazed that there were no rattles or squeaks after two years and 30,000 miles. It does occasionally have that hiccup at 58-ish MPH when you let off the accelerator. I'm planning to look closely at the "air in fuel system" and fuel filter issue to see if that's where it is coming from. Our mileage post-F37 is great, though we may be enjoying some "off-road" benefits if you know what I mean. I did some head-math last night and she's getting 25+MPG in rural driving. Better than our Subaru did before we traded it! Mark

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Author:	BVCRD [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:
chadhargis wrote: I bought my 2005 CRD used and the F37 and TC replacement had already been done, so I guess what I don't know won't hurt me. I bought the truck for a few reasons, and not one of them was accleration or speed. I tow a trailer from time to time, and I live in a hilly part of the country, so I wanted a vehicle that could tow my trailer effortlessly without fear of damaging the transmission or engine. I wanted a vehicle that had 4 doors, and was resonably comfortable. I wanted a "truck", but not a pickup since I don't have anything to haul in the bed. Then the coup de gras....I wanted somthing that wouldn't get awful fuel mileage. I've had a Ford Explorer V8 4X4 that got 14mpg in normal everyday driving. It SUCKED gas. When towing a trailer, get out the old wallet about every 200 miles and put in $60-$70 worth of fuel. So, the CRD is an excellent compromise for me. Not as big and comfy as I'd like, but not bad. Not as fuel efficient as I'd like, but not bad. It's no Cummins TD with over 600lb/ft of torque, but my little 2000lb loaded trailer isn't going to tax the 2.8 motor at all. Heck, my wife's Honda Odyessy minivan pulls it just fine and it's only rated to tow 3500lbs with a tranny fluid cooler (which I'm assuming the CRD already has in order to tow 5000lbs). So, the F37 mod robbed me of 7ft/lbs of torque. That comes out to 288ft/lbs at 1800rpm. That's still very healthy from a 4cyl engine displacing less that 3 liters. The couple that with 20+mpg around town and better than 25mpg on the highway, and I'd say you've got an impressive vehicle. I've had my CRD for a week, which makes me nothing more than a newbie, but with just over 10,000 miles on it, the CRD runs, drives, and even smells like a new car. It is flawless so far. Time will reveal if it's a good little truck or not. It reminds me of a goat. Not fast, but can climb over anything. That's why those that have had the (dealer) F37 and are still having driveability issues have gotten lame work done on there rigs.

Author:	chadhargis [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:36 pm ]
Post subject:
That's good to hear. With all the doom and gloom I've been reading about the CRD, I'm starting to get paranoid. Heck, when I hit a bump in the road, I think "was that the transmission???". My CRD has very low miles for an '05. I bought it with 9600 miles on it just last week. I did a carfax and found it was sold as a "fleet vehicle" then sold to the second owner at 4100 miles. The second owner did all the recalls back in December. They sold it shortly thereafter, so I'm wondering if they read all this stuff and got spooked. It's under warranty until next August, so I'll see how things pan out. So far, it's running great. I couldn't be happier with it.

Author:	Marlon_JBT [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:
Question about F37... I did not notice a real difference after F37 was done. I got mine on 06/23/06. I keep hearing something about F31 and its similarities to F37 as far as power. Is it possible the dealer had already done F31, and this would be why I didn't notice anything? The shift points are DEFINITELY different though. (For the best, IMO... considering how I like driving)

Author:	truckbouy2 [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:01 pm ]
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Like to see a picture of that Cummins in the Suburban.....

Author:	msilbernagel [ Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:
I've a few shots on my album here... click the Libby and it'll take you to a gallery you can scroll through. Mark - truckbouy2 wrote: Like to see a picture of that Cummins in the Suburban.....