Engine Code Problem

longarm · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 10:27 am

I have a question for the members here. My wife fueled up at a very busy Meijer Gas Station. Yes she used the ULSD. She drove approx. 150 miles on that tank before garaging the KJ while we went on vacation. The KJ was garaged for approx. 7 days. Wednesday after returning home I started up the KJ and it idled fine. I put it in gear and it died. It would turn over but NOT start. I had it flat bedded to the dealership. The dealership calls me this morning and tells me that the computer threw a code. The code is POO93. The dealership said that DCX said the code is due to bio-diesel being used in the tank. I DID NOT FUEL WITH BIO-DIESEL! I used the commercial pump for diesel at the gas station. Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

chadhargis · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 10:44 am

The code for biodiesel?? How would the computer know if you were using biodiesel. I smell a rat!!

According to the list of ODB codes in the sticky post on this forum, this is what the code means:

P0093 Fuel system leak detected – large leak Wiring, fuel pressure sensor, mechanical fault

You have a fuel system leak...not a biodiesel code. I'd challenge your dealer to prove it's "biodiesel" (since you know it's not). Did you pay with a credit card when you filled up? If so, you should be able to get a copy of the reciept from your card issuer and show them where you bought the fuel and that it isn't biodiesel.

alljeep · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 10:47 am

Agreed - there is no sensor to detect any exact type of diesel fuel.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 10:48 am

from OldNavy's list

P0089 Fuel pressure regulator – performance problem Fuel pressure regulator, mechanical fault
P0090 Fuel metering solenoid – open circuit Wiring open circuit, fuel metering solenoid, ECM
P0091 Fuel metering solenoid – short to ground Wiring short to ground, fuel metering solenoid, ECM
P0092 Fuel metering solenoid – short to positive Wiring short to positive, fuel metering solenoid, ECM
P0093 Fuel system leak detected – large leak Wiring, fuel pressure sensor, mechanical fault
P0094 Fuel system leak detected – small leak Wiring, fuel pressure sensor, mechanical fault
P0095 Intake air temperature (IAT) sensor 2 – circuit malfunction Wiring, poor connection, IAT sensor, ECM
P0096 Intake air temperature (IAT) sensor 2 – circuit range/performance Wiring, poor connection, IAT sensor, ECM 37

I don't know how they call a leak BioDiesel (actually I don't think you can tell Bio without a chemical analysis)

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 11:20 am

What everyone else said

!

I bet if you would have primed the pump it would have started. Try that next time before towing to an either stupid or worse a dishonest dealer.

dgeist · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 11:27 am

longarm wrote:

I have a question for the members here. My wife fueled up at a very busy Meijer Gas Station. Yes she used the ULSD. She drove approx. 150 miles on that tank before garaging the KJ while we went on vacation. The KJ was garaged for approx. 7 days. Wednesday after returning home I started up the KJ and it idled fine. I put it in gear and it died. It would turn over but NOT start. I had it flat bedded to the dealership. The dealership calls me this morning and tells me that the computer threw a code. The code is POO93. The dealership said that DCX said the code is due to bio-diesel being used in the tank. I DID NOT FUEL WITH BIO-DIESEL! I used the commercial pump for diesel at the gas station. Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

Here's some light: The fact that the dealer couldn't even tell what the code was themselves means they don't even have a shop manual for the CRD and you should suspect anything they say as heresay (at best). Here's what you can ask them to do to see if it's really a serious problem:

They'll need a 11 mm box wrech and about 4 feet of 1/4ID" rubber tubing. Just to be safe, drain your fuel filter:
- pop off the WIF sensor and attach the tube to the neck on that same drain assembly.
- Give the drain assembly a turn (shouldn't be tight, but you might need a shop rag for grip) and drain out the filter into a container (preferably a clear jar). Set that aside to settle.
- tighten the drain back up (hand tight should be okay), remove the hose, and re-attach the sensor.

Now, bleed the fuel filter
- put the hose on the bleeder nozzle and hold it up or into another container (just to keep fuel off of things).
- pump the plunger a few times, then loosen the nozzle about 1/4 turn
- After any internal pressure is released, close the nozzle and repeat till you get a little fuel out with no bubbles.
- If it doesn't bleed fuel after a minute or two, then there probably IS a large leak since it's a suction fed system.

Assuming you do get fuel shortly, then hold the hose out of the way and crank the engine. It might take a couple cranks (as there may still be a little air between the filter and the high-pressure pump). The cranking cycle will take care of that air, though. Good chance it'll start right up.

The fact that you were able to put in gear is probably not relevent, assuming you let it idle less than 30 seconds. When I had air in the filter, it would run for about 30 seconds then die as soon as the pressurized fuel that was in the rail was exhausted. After a proper filter bleed, it was fine. I'm betting that a little air, compounded with leaving it set for a week or so, would make the sensor on the pressure pump thing there was a serious lack of fuel (equating to a "leak").

Now, assuming everything is fine, go back to that fuel sample you drained from the filter. It might have a little water in it which probably settled out by now which means the filter is doing its job. Also, it's good to show them and say," Look here, just like ULSD, and you can test it if you want!" Then, stand back and wait for an apology.

DarbyWalters · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 11:34 am

Sounds more like a Fuel Filter Head Assembly leak...prime and llok for any bubbles around the heater solenoid. It is unreal the explanations Service Writters conjure up

chadhargis · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 11:37 am

Yeah...the fuel filter assembly could have just lost prime. darn, I hate when dealers don't step up and do some diagnosis before they give the customer some false diagnosis just so they can charge them. That's just dishonest.

skywarn · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 11:44 am

WOW... you mean.. next large chem spill that shuts down the hwy, im going to pull up right pass the fire dept. pass the Bio hazard team fill my tank up with the "unknown" chem thats all over the hwy, pullout my scangauge, plug er in and cha ching! "guys is ok... the spill is just corn syrup, its not a hazard... my Jeep told me so!"

this is cool!!! Jeep has an on board liquid testing system... things we learn on this board!

:lol:

longarm · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 12:29 pm

I just called the dealership back and they are now saying that Jeep is saying that this code means that some kind of Bio-Diesel was used. I informed the tech. that regular ULSD was used and I have my recipt (which I do) and I relayed the info regarding the actual code meaning. He was stumped. He was very polite, but stumped and thanked me for my help. What the hell is the matter with these people? I told him to keep my KJ as long as he needs it as this will strengthen my Lemon Law Suite. Now it's about 33 pages of repair history and over 45 days total in the shop. What a cluster****. Thank you all so much for your help. Thats what I love about this website.

chadhargis · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 12:40 pm

Sadly, it sounds as if you have a poor dealer, not a poor CRD. The issue you are having is most likely an easy fix by repriming the fuel filter. You may have a loose filter or hose that needs to be snugged up and that's about it.

Shame to go through all the lemon law crap due to a poor dealer.

longarm · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 2:04 pm

The dealership just called and stated that it is ready. They said the problem is that there was excess air in the fuel lines or fuel system and that it runs fine now. What a bunch of morons. They still tried to blame the hell out of me. I told them that it drove just fine before vacation and after sitting 7 days it just wouldn't run. I also told them that if a vehicle is incapable of sitting for a week and starting fine then it's a serious problem.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 2:08 pm

dgeist

great writeup - I'm saving for my troubleshooting file.

longarm · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 2:15 pm

ATXKJ wrote:

dgeist

great writeup - I'm saving for my troubleshooting file.

x2. Thank you very much for your help.

GilaMonster · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 2:21 pm

longarm wrote:

I just called the dealership back and they are now saying that Jeep is saying that this code means that some kind of Bio-Diesel was used. I informed the tech. that regular ULSD was used and I have my recipt (which I do) and I relayed the info regarding the actual code meaning. He was stumped. He was very polite, but stumped and thanked me for my help. What the hell is the matter with these people? I told him to keep my KJ as long as he needs it as this will strengthen my Lemon Law Suite. Now it's about 33 pages of repair history and over 45 days total in the shop. What a cluster****. Thank you all so much for your help. Thats what I love about this website.

After this last experiance you have had, makes you wonder if your Lemon Law Suit is based on the dealership as much, if not more, than the vehicle itself.

dgeist · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 2:43 pm

GilaMonster wrote:

After this last experiance you have had, makes you wonder if your Lemon Law Suit is based on the dealership as much, if not more, than the vehicle itself.

To be fair, and even though I love my CRD, it IS crazy that the fuel system needs to be reprimed as much as it does. There are some basic design flaws that seem to have been introduced by "compliance engineers" (like the plastic hockey puck that is 90% likely to be the location of ANY fuel leak) and the crappy filter that doesn't even meet DC's (correction: Chrysler group thing whatever company it is this week) own engineering design (which I think calls for 2 or 3 micron filtration). Oh, and the CCV hose that spews oil into the intercooler and related sensors... and the EGR that injects HOT gas into the combustion process instead of inserting it on the upstream side of the intercooler where it might actually cool down....

Like everyone always says, maintaining a CRD is not for soccer moms (unless she happens to be an engineer or a diesel tech).

Cowcatcher · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 7:02 pm

GilaMonster wrote:

longarm wrote:

I just called the dealership back and they are now saying that Jeep is saying that this code means that some kind of Bio-Diesel was used. I informed the tech. that regular ULSD was used and I have my recipt (which I do) and I relayed the info regarding the actual code meaning. He was stumped. He was very polite, but stumped and thanked me for my help. What the hell is the matter with these people? I told him to keep my KJ as long as he needs it as this will strengthen my Lemon Law Suite. Now it's about 33 pages of repair history and over 45 days total in the shop. What a cluster****. Thank you all so much for your help. Thats what I love about this website.

After this last experiance you have had, makes you wonder if your Lemon Law Suit is based on the dealership as much, if not more, than the vehicle itself.

I think that when it comes right down to it most of the issues we have seen here with owners and lemon laws really had to do more with poor dealer service than with a poor product. Is the product perfect, no but there are fixes if the dealers would be more responsible.

techTim · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2007 8:09 pm

so when will we get an aftermarket filter head? sounds like this is the biggest real flaw with the CRD. All other thing being equal, the ORM fixes some driveability and longevity issues, and the provent / EHM get rid of some more longevity and economy issues, this fuel filter head is a stinker though. I plan on using the old filter gasket between the two hockey pucks when my CAT filter kit arrives, hoping that takes care of my air in the fuel problem.

Stan Wright · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2007 9:44 am

When I left work yesterday the Jeep went into limp mode, which was cured by a restart. When I got home the OBD scanner showed code P0093, and there was lots of air in the system. I'm down to about 1/8 tank so maybe that had something to do with it. :?:

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Same code I had when the fuel head started leaking air/fuel in/out of the fuel heater socket. Shortly afterward, it died on me on the highway. I had to pull over and get it restarted to get home. Either a large air leak in the vacuum line or fuel heater head is my guess. Seems to be a common problem on our CRD's.

PS - I've run my tank down to empty once, on the way to fill up, and put 20.3 gallons of fuel in it. No problem with air in the fuel, stumbling or other issues. I'm thinking that with some age and miles, some of the CRD's are developing air leaks in or near the fuel head. With this vacuum system, it doesn't take much to cause stumbling or complete loss of power.

Engine Code Problem

Who is online